SDA misapplication of Scripture about the soul's natural immortality

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue: More than just milk !!!
AV Hb 6:2-3 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

AV Jn 8:44-47 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.

GOD's free will gift to mankind gives GOD's enemies the chance to persuade others to believe the lies of the Devil.

As I see it, GOD is not going to remove doubt, in order to promote faith, because that is GOD's free will choice to us, our choice of faith or doubt, with their consequences/judgments.

If you were GOD, how would you handle all of the lies, in the presence of the free will gift from GOD ???
I appreciate the response, but I believe that Malachi 4 is speaking about what will happen at the beginning of the 1000 years. This is a bit off topic and possibly we could have a brief discussion in the future. I believe that Jesus will return to the earth Acts 1:11, 3:19-21, raise some of the dead Daniel 12:1-3 and reject the wicked and give immortality to the faithful. He will then establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years, ruling as King / Priest upon the Throne of David / Temple at Jerusalem and rule over the converted nation of natural Israel and with the nations subjected and learning God's ways Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Acts 3:19-21, 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8.
{Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}
AV Jer 25:33 And the slain{H2491 chalal} of the LORD shall be at that day from [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

I will still believe GOD's word, over your opinion.

When do GOD's words here come True, in your personal eschatology ???

In your opinion, so we will for a thousand years, walk around the bodies("slain{H2491 chalal}") on earth ???

"they shall not be lamented", so you see a dead friend on the ground, you are not going to "lament" ??? <<< I personally think GOD is not that cruel.

AV Jn 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days.

Do you really think that GOD is unaware of body decay(the affects of sin) after death ???

AV 2Ti 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

There are several separate judgments in the Gospel process. Like Jesus' flesh advents, combining or confusing one or more is dangerous theology.

AV Ac 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

There are more than a single timing event here. With the other confusion above, easy misunderstanding.

"Zechariah 14", Synoptic synchronicity of all of GOD's Words, in weighted precedence is VERY important. Pick out an your objection point and let us discuss that specifically.

"Daniel 2:35,44", Eschatology is also about proper time alignment. Pick out what you think is a time marker in those texts, and let us discuss it.

"Micah 4:1-8","Isaiah 2:1-4", Please explain what point you wish to draw out of these texts ??? Most likely, my objection will be focused on "rebuke" as a talking point.

"Malachi 4", Synoptic synchronicity of all of GOD's Words, in weighted precedence to timing is VERY important too.

AV Jn 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
AV Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

Depends really where your personal eschatology places the thousand years.
Can you explain why(purpose) Jesus' statement of the general resurrections are missing the thousand years ???

I suggest you break up your rebuttal into several rebuttal posts.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Greetings again Michael (SDAchristian),

I appreciate the response, but I believe that Malachi 4 is speaking about what will happen at the beginning of the 1000 years. This is a bit off topic and possibly we could have a brief discussion in the future. I believe that Jesus will return to the earth Acts 1:11, 3:19-21, raise some of the dead Daniel 12:1-3 and reject the wicked and give immortality to the faithful. He will then establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years, ruling as King / Priest upon the Throne of David / Temple at Jerusalem and rule over the converted nation of natural Israel and with the nations subjected and learning God's ways Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 2:35,44, Zechariah 14, Acts 3:19-21, 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8.

Kind regards
Trevor
Yes I believe that too, but I also believe in the rapture too, the first resurrection in Rev 20 is referring to those who die during the great tribulation.

The devil is bound for a thousand years and although Jesus will reign for 1000 years there will still be those who disbelieve, however, that is proof it’s not the devil that causes us to have a dead spirit but we are born spiritually dead as in Eph 2.

SDA’s believe it’s the devil that causes us to sin and that during the thousand years he will be bound to earth to wonder around on a desolate earth (not in the bible) then all the sins of the people will be out in him as he is the scapegoat and he will be annihilated then everyone will appear before the great white throne to decide your case for death or life.

SDA’s can’t fathom that we are spiritually dead thus in the thousand years we will be among spiritually dead people.

They also can’t fathom the idea that the judgement is not for everyone but for unbelievers, why anyone would want to look forward to being in front of that throne or take part in the great tribulation.
Amos 5:18-20 Alas you are waiting for the day of the Lord (The end times), for what purpose will the day if the LORD be to you? It will be darkness not light.
As a man flees from a lion, and a bear meets him, or goes home and leans against the wall and a snake bites him.
Will not the day of the LORD be in darkness instead of light, even gloom with no brightness at all?
Zephaniah 1:14-18
14 Near is the great day of the Lord,
Near and coming very quickly;
Listen, the day of the Lord!
In it the warrior cries out bitterly.
15 A day of wrath is that day,
A day of trouble and distress,
A day of destruction and desolation,
A day of darkness and gloom,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of trumpet and battle cry
Against the fortified cities
And the high corner towers.
17 I will bring distress on men
So that they will walk like the blind,
Because they have sinned against the Lord;
And their blood will be poured out like dust
And their flesh like dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold
Will be able to deliver them
On the day of the Lord’s wrath;
And all the earth will be devoured
In the fire of His jealousy,
For He will make a complete end,
Indeed a terrifying one,
Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Nowhere in scripture does judgement or wrath of God refer to believers, this wrath is reserved for those who are unbelievers.

The first 11 chapters of the bible is the story of the nations, then from Genesis 12 onwards to the end of the Old Testament it’s about the nation (Israel), Jesus comes as the messiah the the gentiles are brought into faith, but ultimately in Revelation it’s about Israel coming back and they will be going through the tribulation to bring them back to faith in their messiah.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Nowhere in scripture does judgement or wrath of God refer to believers, this wrath is reserved for those who are unbelievers.
AV Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mathew 25, is the chapter for you !!!

What is common with foolish virgins, one talent servant and goats ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mathew 25, is the chapter for you !!!

What is common with foolish virgins, one talent servant and goats ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Still no verse then? You making a judgement about whether I’m saved or not?

Philippians 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Hebrews 4:16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Salavation is a gift not a reward, rewards are different.
 
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TrevorL

Active member
Greetings again Michael (SDAchristian),
"Micah 4:1-8","Isaiah 2:1-4", Please explain what point you wish to draw out of these texts ??? Most likely, my objection will be focused on "rebuke" as a talking point.
I understand that these two similar passages speak about what happens after the Battle of Armageddon. Jesus will return to the earth at the beginning of the 1000 years, convert a substantial portion of the mortal nation of Israel, and subject the other mortal nations and educate them in the ways of God. There will not be any warfare during the 1000 years when Jesus rules and acts as priest on the Throne of David in the Temple in Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Formersda

Active member
Greetings again Michael (SDAchristian),

I understand that these two similar passages speak about what happens after the Battle of Armageddon. Jesus will return to the earth at the beginning of the 1000 years, convert a substantial portion of the mortal nation of Israel, and subject the other mortal nations and educate them in the ways of God. There will not be any warfare during the 1000 years when Jesus rules and acts as priest on the Throne of David in the Temple in Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor
Yes I see it that way too, so nice to see things in the bible which are actually there rather than proof texts on a Sunday law. It’s amazing what the bible says
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
AV Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mathew 25, is the chapter for you !!!
What is common with foolish virgins, one talent servant and goats ???
Still no verse then? You making a judgement about whether I’m saved or not?
Philippians 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Hebrews 4:16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Salavation is a gift not a reward, rewards are different.
I did not quote the complete context, because I assume you knew, "Still no verse then?", Are the "goats" in Jesus'/shepherd' flock then ???
Same as "foolish virgins" are in Jesus' church ??? Same as "one talent servant" working in Jesus' world ???

"You making a judgement about whether I’m saved or not?", That is Jesus' decision, that I get to review during the thousand years, before the final execution judgment at the end of the thousand years. I am very sure that I will agree with Jesus' decision.

"foolish virgins, one talent servant and goats", All had choices, and suffered Jesus' decision on their OWN choices, as well as, wise virgins, multi-talent servants and sheep in making choices.

AV 1C 3:13-17 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

"Salavation is a gift not a reward, rewards are different.", We shall see what the fire, leaves for you and leaves for me !!!

AV Re 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
AV Jn 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
AV 1Jn 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Works does not matter in GOD's salvation decision, is a lie of the devil.

Another discussion is: What is/are "done evil", to earn the reward of "damnation"

What kind of Works determine REWARDS from GOD. We get to choose what works, we will do.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
I did not quote the complete context, because I assume you knew, "Still no verse then?", Are the "goats" in Jesus'/shepherd' flock then ???
Same as "foolish virgins" are in Jesus' church ??? Same as "one talent servant" working in Jesus' world ???

"You making a judgement about whether I’m saved or not?", That is Jesus' decision, that I get to review during the thousand years, before the final execution judgment at the end of the thousand years. I am very sure that I will agree with Jesus' decision.

"foolish virgins, one talent servant and goats", All had choices, and suffered Jesus' decision on their OWN choices, as well as, wise virgins, multi-talent servants and sheep in making choices.

AV 1C 3:13-17 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

"Salavation is a gift not a reward, rewards are different.", We shall see what the fire, leaves for you and leaves for me !!!

AV Re 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
AV Jn 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
AV 1Jn 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Works does not matter in GOD's salvation decision, is a lie of the devil.

Another discussion is: What is/are "done evil", to earn the reward of "damnation"

What kind of Works determine REWARDS from GOD. We get to choose what works, we will do.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Is this the fire your on about Michael?

1st Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So Michael even if my works are not that great I still will be saved. This is what I mean about actually reading scripture.
 

Formersda

Active member
I did not quote the complete context, because I assume you knew, "Still no verse then?", Are the "goats" in Jesus'/shepherd' flock then ???
Same as "foolish virgins" are in Jesus' church ??? Same as "one talent servant" working in Jesus' world ???

"You making a judgement about whether I’m saved or not?", That is Jesus' decision, that I get to review during the thousand years, before the final execution judgment at the end of the thousand years. I am very sure that I will agree with Jesus' decision.

"foolish virgins, one talent servant and goats", All had choices, and suffered Jesus' decision on their OWN choices, as well as, wise virgins, multi-talent servants and sheep in making choices.

AV 1C 3:13-17 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

"Salavation is a gift not a reward, rewards are different.", We shall see what the fire, leaves for you and leaves for me !!!

AV Re 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
AV Jn 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
AV 1Jn 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Works does not matter in GOD's salvation decision, is a lie of the devil.

Another discussion is: What is/are "done evil", to earn the reward of "damnation"

What kind of Works determine REWARDS from GOD. We get to choose what works, we will do.

Yours in Christ, Michael
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23)
AV 1Jn 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Your quite right here, so I do righteousness therefore I can’t sin, your definition of righteousness is Ellen Whites version it’s not biblical so I am sin free
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
1st Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

So Michael even if my works are not that great I still will be saved. This is what I mean about actually reading scripture.
{Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}
AV Isa 58:12 And [they that shall be] of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

I hear you !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
AV Lk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, ...
Did Jesus‘s work give Him salvation?
Aaaahhhhhh, Jesus never lost salvation !!!

Because Jesus never sinned !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Prologue:
AV Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
AV Lk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, ...

Aaaahhhhhh, Jesus never lost salvation !!!

Because Jesus never sinned !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
What works did Jesus do?
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Isa 58:12 And [they that shall be] of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

I hear you !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
Old Testament Michael, we under a new covenant and I’m not a Jew or a spiritual Jew so not under the mosaic covenant.

In case you didn’t know things changed when Jesus came
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
What works did Jesus do?
AV Mt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Every work in righteousness, that we needed to be redeemed in.

I am wondering why you ask ??? When you should know in the first place.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Old Testament Michael, we under a new covenant and I’m not a Jew or a spiritual Jew so not under the mosaic covenant.
In case you didn’t know things changed when Jesus came
AV 1C 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Depends on how GOD sees it.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Common Tater

Active member
AV 1C 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Depends on how GOD sees it.

Yours in Christ, Michael
God tells us how He sees it.

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Galatians 3:2-29 NASB
 

Common Tater

Active member
This specific misapplication of Scripture is found in theologically "Arian" or "Semi-Arian" sects such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, WWCOG 7th day, etc.

In the case of Seventh-day Adventism the inception of this idea is articulated by Ellen White.

Ellen White
"The only one who promised Adam life in disobedience was the great deceiver. And the declaration of the serpent to Eve in Eden—“Ye shall not surely die”—was the first sermon ever preached upon the immortality of the soul. Yet this declaration, resting solely upon the authority of Satan, is echoed from the pulpits of Christendom and is received by the majority of mankind as readily as it was received by our first parents. The divine sentence, “The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20), is made to mean: The soul that sinneth, it shall not die, but live eternally. We cannot but wonder at the strange infatuation which renders men so credulous concerning the words of Satan and so unbelieving in regard to the words of God."

Prior to commenting on this one should ponder that at the time Ellen wrote this the SDA Church was an anti-Trinitarian Cult....
....That additionally preached that anyone who denied that Father God had digestive organs was LOST.
....This should be considered prior to formulating an opinion as to "the truth" coming from SDA Pulpits at that time.

A common Adventist tactic in rejecting the natural immortality of the soul is twisting Scripture...
...They will quote a section of Scripture that appears to support their position but on closer inspection.
...It usually proves the direct opposite of what they claim the meaning of the text is.

Take Job 14, 18-21 for instance.
But the mountain falls and crumbles away, and the rock is removed from its place; the waters wear away the stones; the torrents wash away the soil of the earth; so thou destroyest the hope of man. Thou prevailest for ever against him, and he passes; thou changest his countenance, and sendest him away His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he perceives it not."

Sounds from this like the SDA's might be onto something as the text says in speaking of man - that he dies and even though his sons come to honor him HE DOES NOT KNOW IT. This "proof text" the SDA's love to use finishes off by saying that the man's son's then die and he doesn't perceive it.

The SDA's intentionally cut the last part of this Scripture off because it proves the direct opposite of what they said it does. It becomes easy to see why when one looks at Job 14 Verse 22:

"He feels only the pain of his own body, and he mourns only for himself.”

One can see the misapplication of Scripture here by the groups that are grounded by Arianism. They ignore the context of the Scripture by pretending a dead man CAN'T feel pain and is isn't conscious enough to "mourn for himself" - while dead! They somehow do this while omitting the Verse that says this is exactly what happens.

I look forward to reviewing other texts with my SDA Friends.
I am still very much interested to have an SDA answer whether Jesus had a physical body in heaven before he came down and was born to Mary. Did/do the angels have bodys? I'd surely love for Michael to answer this question. A simple yes or no would suffice, and if he would like to post what he considers the biblical proof to support his answer, that's fine. But I would like a definitive yes or no.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ac 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers [did], so [do] ye.
AV 1C 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
God tells us how He sees it.

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Galatians 3:2-29 NASB
{Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}
Absolutely Brilliant !!!

"then you are Abraham’s descendants", Are sabbath keepers, like Jesus !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23)
AV 1Jn 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Your quite right here, so I do righteousness therefore I can’t sin, your definition of righteousness is Ellen Whites version it’s not biblical so I am sin free
AV 1Jn 3:4-6 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Depends on who's definition of sin, you want to use, Right ???

"Your quite right here, so I do righteousness therefore I can’t sin, your definition of righteousness is Ellen Whites version it’s not biblical so I am sin free", So says you, in your own opinion.

AV 1Jn 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Jesus' opinion of judgment, is the only one that matters, not your opinion.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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