Seeking security in the flock

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Here we go with Protestant false dichotomy, the Christian religion is zero sum and one dimensional, if we say there is security in the flock, somehow, for some reason, this is an affront to Christ and his "all sufficient work" on the cross, blah, blah, blah.

Our security is our Savior.

The Church is the Body of Christ. Thus, to be in the "flock" is to be part of the body, and thus united with Christ. Because the Church is the Body of Christ, there is a connection between Christ's presence on earth and the Church. The Body of Christ mediates the presence of Christ in the world. Thus, the Church is a very necessary component in one's relationship with Christ.

You have it backwards.

One is not in Christ because he joined a flock.

One is part of his flock because he is in Christ.
 

JoeT

Well-known member
Catholics are taught to seek security in their flock and to believe their security is being part of their flock and following the rest of the flock. After all their flock is the "pillar and foundation of truth."

A foolish sheep thinks he has security in the flock and with the flock. He feels safe following the flock and conforming to the flock. But one sheep cannot protect another from the wolves, not even the whole flock.

A wise sheep knows his security is not in the flock and with the flock. Following the other sheep provides him no safety whatsoever. He knows that only his Shepherd provides him safety and only His Shepherd can protect him from the wolves and so the wise sheep follows HIM.

I AM the way, the truth, and the life.
Being He the Way, the Truth and the Life, following that Way together we "bring forth fruit to God" [Romans 7:4]. St. Paul explains while we are "members of member" we too are the very Body of Christ [1 Corinthians 12:27]. Outside of this Body there is no salvation.

Hence, the wise sheep knows his security is in the flock and with the flock, "framed together" into a holy temple [Ephesians 2:20-22]. Those separated from the Body of Christ are in disunity each having their own God, disunity becomes both the result of division and disharmony and loss of the Body, i.e. lost as abandonment of the Catholic Church, a "spiritual house" built of living stones [1 Peter 2:5].

JoeT
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Being He the Way, the Truth and the Life, following that Way together we "bring forth fruit to God" [Romans 7:4]. St. Paul explains while we are "members of member" we too are the very Body of Christ [1 Corinthians 12:27]. Outside of this Body there is no salvation.

Hence, the wise sheep knows his security is in the flock and with the flock,

The wise sheep knows his security is his Shepherd. The foolish sheep wants to believe his security is in the flock and he believes this because he does not know the voice of the Shepherd. Not knowing where his Shepherd is, he seeks security in the flock.

You would have it that one accesses the Shepherd by first joining the flock but you have it backwards.

Very truly, I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way is a thief and a bandit.

"framed together" into a holy temple [Ephesians 2:20-22]. Those separated from the Body of Christ are in disunity each having their own God, disunity becomes both the result of division and disharmony and loss of the Body, i.e. lost as abandonment of the Catholic Church, a "spiritual house" built of living stones [1 Peter 2:5].

Christ is the door not the church.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
You have it backwards.

One is not in Christ because he joined a flock.

One is part of his flock because he is in Christ.
How about this: it is BOTH AND. I joined the flock because I am in Christ, and I am in Christ because I joined the flock.

I know the idea of a BOTH AND is a difficult concept to grasp. For Protestants it just HAS to be either/or because their flat, one-dimensional theology does not allow them to think beyond one dimension.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
How about this: it is BOTH AND. I joined the flock because I am in Christ, and I am in Christ because I joined the flock.

I know the idea of a BOTH AND is a difficult concept to grasp. For Protestants it just HAS to be either/or because their flat, one-dimensional theology does not allow them to think beyond one dimension.

Not according to Jesus.

Very truly, I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way is a thief and a bandit.
 

JoeT

Well-known member
The wise sheep knows his security is his Shepherd. The foolish sheep wants to believe his security is in the flock and he believes this because he does not know the voice of the Shepherd. Not knowing where his Shepherd is, he seeks security in the flock.

You would have it that one accesses the Shepherd by first joining the flock but you have it backwards.
Actually the sheep are not free to join or not join the flock being corralled into one flock by the shepherd. We are brought together into one Holy Church by and through [John 15:16]. Hence we are "framed together" into One Holy Church, the Holy Temple [Ephesians 2:20-22].
Very truly, I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way is a thief and a bandit.

Christ is the door not the church.
The sheepfold is the Church, we are corralled together. Thieves and robbers do not enter through the gate. Such are ministers who seek to profiteer from the flesh of Christ are wolves and heretics. Christ is both the gate or doorway to enter or sheepfold itself being the Body of Christ. His sheep are known by name and know Him by name.

I think you've got a lot wrong. You should avoid howeling before the sheep, it gives you away.

JoeT
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Actually the sheep are not free to join or not join the flock being corralled into one flock by the shepherd. We are brought together into one Holy Church by and through [John 15:16]. Hence we are "framed together" into One Holy Church, the Holy Temple [Ephesians 2:20-22].

The sheepfold is the Church, we are corralled together. Thieves and robbers do not enter through the gate. Such are ministers who seek to profiteer from the flesh of Christ are wolves and heretics. Christ is both the gate or doorway to enter or sheepfold itself being the Body of Christ. His sheep are known by name and know Him by name.

You are corralled by your gatekeepers who claim to be the gateway.

I think you've got a lot wrong. You should avoid howeling before the sheep, it gives you away.

I know that your words really mean, "I want to believe that you are wrong because it makes me feel better."
 
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balshan

Well-known member
Here we go with Protestant false dichotomy, the Christian religion is zero sum and one dimensional, if we say there is security in the flock, somehow, for some reason, this is an affront to Christ and his "all sufficient work" on the cross, blah, blah, blah.

The Church is the Body of Christ. Thus, to be in the "flock" is to be part of the body, and thus united with Christ. Because the Church is the Body of Christ, there is a connection between Christ's presence on earth and the Church. The Body of Christ mediates the presence of Christ in the world. Thus, the Church is a very necessary component in one's relationship with Christ.
Here we go again with the RCC false dichotomy, the RCC religion is zero sum and one dimensional. No one said that being together was an affront to Jesus but to make out there is salvation in the flock of the bad tree is false. Blah, Blah, Blah. Jesus is holy and your leaders aren't. Jesus taught the truth and your leaders don't. If any institution has a false dictonomy it is yours, Jesus cannot be involved in a bad tree. That is completely opposing entities, so your claim of being His church is false.

Your institution is not the body of Christ, no one wants to be part of your flock or part of your corrupted body. There is no unity with Jesus in your institution. Your leaders do not follow Jesus, Jesus had empathy they have prove they don't. Look at the way they have treated their victims throughout the centuries for a start. Jesus was a good shepherd, your leaders aren't they have harmed the sheep. I could go on about how Jesus is not to be found in your institution. It is one dimensional as it claims salvation is through the institution and it isn't.

The catechism 845 is incorrect:

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

"Outside the Church there is no salvation

It should read inside the RCC there is limited chance of salvation. It could be said that there is not a flock in the RCC but a pack.
 

Stella1000

Well-known member
Do we? Why, then, have RCCers followed their leaders when they have taught false doctrines not found in the Bible, not even hinted at? Like indulgences? The 4 Marian Dogmas? Papal infallibility? Celibate, unmarried clergy? Purgatory?
All the Church's teachings have been responses to possible distortions of the Truth of Christ. They serve to keep the Truth authentic.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
If you were lost in a building, that was totally shut up
boards on the windows and doors both inside and out;
total darkness,
and someone stood in the door and lite just one candle,
not many; just 1 flame of truth
"the just shall live by faith"
you could find your way to the door and out you go
freedom

all it takes is just one (1) candle
and Satan knows that
-------so ------

All the Church's teachings have been responses to possible distortions of the Truth of Christ. They serve to keep the Truth authentic.

come what may, the Minions of Satan have to put out that candle
 

Blessings8

Well-known member
Do we? Why, then, have RCCers followed their leaders when they have taught false doctrines not found in the Bible, not even hinted at? Like indulgences? The 4 Marian Dogmas? Papal infallibility? Celibate, unmarried clergy? Purgatory?
Faith alone? Bible alone? Where are these? You being your own authority? Catholics have the church Christ established and the bible the HS protected. Ncs have their infallible opinions.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Faith alone? Bible alone? Where are these? You being your own authority? Catholics have the church Christ established and the bible the HS protected. Ncs have their infallible opinions.
No one has said bible alone, faith and not works is clearly stated. You have no authority and the RCC has no authority. RCs are obsessed with their false authority. RCs do not have the church Jesus established and it does not protect the bible, its false doctrines actually goes against scripture. No nonRC has ever claimed to be infallible. This is just another false RC doctrine which they fail to prove. The actions/fruit of your institution screams out from the mountain tops out who the founder of the RC is and it is clearly not Jesus.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Blessings8 said:
Faith alone? Bible alone? Where are these? You being your own authority? Catholics have the church Christ established and the bible the HS protected. Ncs have their infallible opinions.
================================================


Job 31:35
Oh that one would hear me!
behold, my desire is,
that the Almighty would answer me,
and that mine adversary had written a book.

36 Surely I would take it upon my shoulder,
and bind it as a crown to me.
 

Blessings8

Well-known member
No one has said bible alone, faith and not works is clearly stated. You have no authority and the RCC has no authority. RCs are obsessed with their false authority. RCs do not have the church Jesus established and it does not protect the bible, its false doctrines actually goes against scripture. No nonRC has ever claimed to be infallible. This is just another false RC doctrine which they fail to prove. The actions/fruit of your institution screams out from the mountain tops out who the founder of the RC is and it is clearly not Jesus.
Where is faith and bible ALONE explicit in the bible? Should be there. And you have no authority to tell anyone anything. Opinion is not truth.
 

Blessings8

Well-known member
Blessings8 said:
Faith alone? Bible alone? Where are these? You being your own authority? Catholics have the church Christ established and the bible the HS protected. Ncs have their infallible opinions.
================================================


Job 31:35
Oh that one would hear me!
behold, my desire is,
that the Almighty would answer me,
and that mine adversary had written a book.

36 Surely I would take it upon my shoulder,
and bind it as a crown to me.
So you do not have an explicit verse? You should since you require it of Catholics.
 
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