Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Our security is our Savior.
You have it backwards.
One is not in Christ because he joined a flock.
One is part of his flock because he is in Christ.
Seeking security in the flock
- Thread starter Our Lord's God
- Start date
Our security is our Savior.
You have it backwards.
One is not in Christ because he joined a flock.
One is part of his flock because he is in Christ.
JoeT
Well-known member
Being He the Way, the Truth and the Life, following that Way together we "bring forth fruit to God" [Romans 7:4]. St. Paul explains while we are "members of member" we too are the very Body of Christ [1 Corinthians 12:27]. Outside of this Body there is no salvation.
Hence, the wise sheep knows his security is in the flock and with the flock, "framed together" into a holy temple [Ephesians 2:20-22]. Those separated from the Body of Christ are in disunity each having their own God, disunity becomes both the result of division and disharmony and loss of the Body, i.e. lost as abandonment of the Catholic Church, a "spiritual house" built of living stones [1 Peter 2:5].
JoeT
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
The wise sheep knows his security is his Shepherd. The foolish sheep wants to believe his security is in the flock and he believes this because he does not know the voice of the Shepherd. Not knowing where his Shepherd is, he seeks security in the flock.
You would have it that one accesses the Shepherd by first joining the flock but you have it backwards.
Very truly, I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way is a thief and a bandit.
Christ is the door not the church.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
How about this: it is BOTH AND. I joined the flock because I am in Christ, and I am in Christ because I joined the flock.
I know the idea of a BOTH AND is a difficult concept to grasp. For Protestants it just HAS to be either/or because their flat, one-dimensional theology does not allow them to think beyond one dimension.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Not according to Jesus.
Very truly, I tell you, anyone who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way is a thief and a bandit.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
How is this a refutation of my point?
Who is trying to enter the gate by another way?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
Blind?
He didn't say "enter the gate" did he?
He said "enter the sheepfold."
JoeT
Well-known member
Actually the sheep are not free to join or not join the flock being corralled into one flock by the shepherd. We are brought together into one Holy Church by and through [John 15:16]. Hence we are "framed together" into One Holy Church, the Holy Temple [Ephesians 2:20-22].
The sheepfold is the Church, we are corralled together. Thieves and robbers do not enter through the gate. Such are ministers who seek to profiteer from the flesh of Christ are wolves and heretics. Christ is both the gate or doorway to enter or sheepfold itself being the Body of Christ. His sheep are known by name and know Him by name.
I think you've got a lot wrong. You should avoid howeling before the sheep, it gives you away.
JoeT
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
You are corralled by your gatekeepers who claim to be the gateway.
I know that your words really mean, "I want to believe that you are wrong because it makes me feel better."
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Here we go again with the RCC false dichotomy, the RCC religion is zero sum and one dimensional. No one said that being together was an affront to Jesus but to make out there is salvation in the flock of the bad tree is false. Blah, Blah, Blah. Jesus is holy and your leaders aren't. Jesus taught the truth and your leaders don't. If any institution has a false dictonomy it is yours, Jesus cannot be involved in a bad tree. That is completely opposing entities, so your claim of being His church is false.
Your institution is not the body of Christ, no one wants to be part of your flock or part of your corrupted body. There is no unity with Jesus in your institution. Your leaders do not follow Jesus, Jesus had empathy they have prove they don't. Look at the way they have treated their victims throughout the centuries for a start. Jesus was a good shepherd, your leaders aren't they have harmed the sheep. I could go on about how Jesus is not to be found in your institution. It is one dimensional as it claims salvation is through the institution and it isn't.
The catechism 845 is incorrect:
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
"Outside the Church there is no salvation
It should read inside the RCC there is limited chance of salvation. It could be said that there is not a flock in the RCC but a pack.
Blessings8
Well-known member
of course. We agree.
Bonnie
Super Member
Do we? Why, then, have RCCers followed their leaders when they have taught false doctrines not found in the Bible, not even hinted at? Like indulgences? The 4 Marian Dogmas? Papal infallibility? Celibate, unmarried clergy? Purgatory?
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Stella1000
Well-known member
All the Church's teachings have been responses to possible distortions of the Truth of Christ. They serve to keep the Truth authentic.
If you were lost in a building, that was totally shut up
boards on the windows and doors both inside and out;
total darkness,
and someone stood in the door and lite just one candle,
not many; just 1 flame of truth
"the just shall live by faith"
you could find your way to the door and out you go
freedom
all it takes is just one (1) candle
and Satan knows that
-------so ------
come what may, the Minions of Satan have to put out that candle
boards on the windows and doors both inside and out;
total darkness,
and someone stood in the door and lite just one candle,
not many; just 1 flame of truth
"the just shall live by faith"
you could find your way to the door and out you go
freedom
all it takes is just one (1) candle
and Satan knows that
-------so ------
come what may, the Minions of Satan have to put out that candle
Incorrect nearly all your institution teachings ar edistortions of the True Gosepl of Jesus. They serve to contaminate true authentic teachings.
Blessings8
Well-known member
Faith alone? Bible alone? Where are these? You being your own authority? Catholics have the church Christ established and the bible the HS protected. Ncs have their infallible opinions.
No one has said bible alone, faith and not works is clearly stated. You have no authority and the RCC has no authority. RCs are obsessed with their false authority. RCs do not have the church Jesus established and it does not protect the bible, its false doctrines actually goes against scripture. No nonRC has ever claimed to be infallible. This is just another false RC doctrine which they fail to prove. The actions/fruit of your institution screams out from the mountain tops out who the founder of the RC is and it is clearly not Jesus.
Blessings8 said:
Faith alone? Bible alone? Where are these? You being your own authority? Catholics have the church Christ established and the bible the HS protected. Ncs have their infallible opinions.
================================================
Job 31:35
Oh that one would hear me!
behold, my desire is,
that the Almighty would answer me,
and that mine adversary had written a book.
36 Surely I would take it upon my shoulder,
and bind it as a crown to me.
Faith alone? Bible alone? Where are these? You being your own authority? Catholics have the church Christ established and the bible the HS protected. Ncs have their infallible opinions.
================================================
Job 31:35
Oh that one would hear me!
behold, my desire is,
that the Almighty would answer me,
and that mine adversary had written a book.
36 Surely I would take it upon my shoulder,
and bind it as a crown to me.
Blessings8
Well-known member
Where is faith and bible ALONE explicit in the bible? Should be there. And you have no authority to tell anyone anything. Opinion is not truth.
Blessings8
Well-known member
So you do not have an explicit verse? You should since you require it of Catholics.