Septuagint

[Lee Magee]

Psalm 43:3 שלח־אורך ואמתך "O send out thy light and thy truth" (Sept. ἐξαπόστειλον τὸ φῶς σου καὶ τὴν ἀλήθειάν σου)

This verse is translated with the post-position "Out" for the initial verb in the Septuagint begins with the preposition ἐξ- (Out). I believe meaning of שלח in this context is σελαγεῖται / σελαγέω to enlighten, illuminate.

σελαγέω שלח

ἀλήθεια truth, reality
\᾿αλήθεια → ᾿ανήθεια → ᾿αμήθεια → אמת

Euripides, Iphigenia in Tauris 1026
Yes, for the night belongs to thieves, the light to truth
κλεπτῶν γὰρ ἡ νύξ, τῆς δ᾽ ἀληθείας τὸ φῶς

 

[Lee Magee]

In Numbers 36:12 היו לנשים is translated "they were married", but the Septuagint as ἐγενήθησαν γυναῖκες "Women were born", so that it reads
"Women were born into the families", so there is a lexical problem here.

Homer fixes these lexical problems.

τίθημι / freq. in Med., γυναῖκα or ἄκοιτιν θέσθαι τινά make her one's wife

Judges 21:24 And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives,
MT ויעשו־כן בני בנימן וישאו נשים

The verb וישאו here would ἔθεντο

Ruth 1:4 And they took them wives
MT וישאו להם נשים
== ἔθεντο γυναῖκας.

Also, the verb ἔθεντο is in the middle voice, rather then the active ἔθεσαν. The middle voice is the active ἔθεσαν (וישאו) with the reflexive αὐτοῖς (להם).

ἔθεσαν וישאו θήσουσι ישאו
ἔθεντο וישאו־להם θήσονται ישאו־להם

 

[John Milton]

the Septuagint as ἐγενήθησαν γυναῖκες "Women were born"

You keep making errors in these threads that indicate that you don't have a good command of the languages you are working with. The phrase "ἐγενήθησαν γυναῖκες" has nothing to do with being born. The phrase means "they were wives". The use of "γίγνομαι" for marriage is a common idiom in the LXX, so there was no need for you to attempt to "fix" something that wasn't a "problem". Unless you first learn the languages you are quoting, you will continue to waste your time.

 

[Lee Magee]

You keep making errors in these threads that indicate that you don't have a good command of the languages you are working with. The phrase "ἐγενήθησαν γυναῖκες" has nothing to do with being born. The phrase means "they were wives". The use of "γίγνομαι" for marriage is a common idiom in the LXX, so there was no need for you to attempt to "fix" something that wasn't a "problem". Unless you first learn the languages you are quoting, you will continue to waste your time.

γυνή means woman, but there is no specific vocabulary describing marriage, but other verses do.

Genesis 38:8 יבם אתה "He married her"
The verb יבם can be assigned to ἐπιγαμβρεύω take a woman to wife as her husband's next of kin (LSJ)

In Deuteronomy 25:9 יבמת means "brother's wife", this is the same as ἐπιγαμβρευτής connected by marriage, or γαμβρά sister in law.

Nehemiah 13:23 "Jews that had married wives of Ashdod"
LXX. Ιουδαίους οἳ ἐκάθισαν γυναῖκας Ἀζωτίας
MT. את־היהודים השיבו נשים אשדודיות

The Septuagint uses the wrong verb here, the correct verb for השיב in this context is συνοικέω 'to live together (in wedlock)'

Ἀτθίς אשדוד Attic town

Genesis 34:9 "And make ye marriages with us"
LXX ἐπιγαμβρεύσασθε ἡμῖν
MT והתחתנו אתנו

The verb הת־חתן is a compound, the verb is ἐκ-δίδωμι ' give one's daughter in marriage.

Deuteronomy 27:23 חתנת = ἐκδότις bride's mother
Songs of Solomon 3:11 חתנת = ἔκδοσις , Arc. ἔσδοσις giving in marriage, dowering
Exodus 3:1 חתן = ἐκδότης one who gives his daughter in marriage / ἑδνωτής father who portions a bride

The languages at play here are Phoenician and Greek.

 

[John Milton]

γυνή means woman, but there is no specific vocabulary describing marriage, but other verses do.

Why double down on your errant remarks? γυνή can mean either woman or wife depending on the context of the passage.
See “II” here:

Greek Word Study Tool

“To be a wife” is one of many ways that can be used to refer to a marriage relationship.

Genesis 38:8 יבם אתה "He married her"
The verb יבם can be assigned to ἐπιγαμβρεύω take a woman to wife as her husband's next of kin (LSJ)

In Deuteronomy 25:9 יבמת means "brother's wife", this is the same as ἐπιγαμβρευτής connected by marriage, or γαμβρά sister in law.

Nehemiah 13:23 "Jews that had married wives of Ashdod"
LXX. Ιουδαίους οἳ ἐκάθισαν γυναῖκας Ἀζωτίας
MT. את־היהודים השיבו נשים אשדודיות

The Septuagint uses the wrong verb here, the correct verb for השיב in this context is συνοικέω 'to live together (in wedlock)'

Ἀτθίς אשדוד Attic town

Genesis 34:9 "And make ye marriages with us"
LXX ἐπιγαμβρεύσασθε ἡμῖν
MT והתחתנו אתנו

The verb הת־חתן is a compound, the verb is ἐκ-δίδωμι ' give one's daughter in marriage.

Deuteronomy 27:23 חתנת = ἐκδότις bride's mother
Songs of Solomon 3:11 חתנת = ἔκδοσις , Arc. ἔσδοσις giving in marriage, dowering
Exodus 3:1 חתן = ἐκδότης one who gives his daughter in marriage / ἑδνωτής father who portions a bride

There is no certain word that is the “correct” translation, as you seem to imagine. There are many ways a thought can be conveyed. As I have already said, the phrase used in Num. 36:12 does not refer to “birth” and refers to “being wives”. You clearly don’t know these languages, so you are wasting your time doing whatever it is you are doing here.

The languages at play here are Phoenician and Greek.

The languages at play here are Greek and Hebrew, because those are the languages you have quoted. Do you not even know that?

 

[Lee Magee]

The languages at play here are Greek and Hebrew, because those are the languages you have quoted. Do you not even know that?

The language assigned to the Ancient Near Eastern people is the Phoenician Language. Hebrew is a language invented by Masoretes and Modern Hebrew was invented in the late 1800s. So matters is what the words mean to the Phoenicians and Carthaginians, the actual people the language belongs to.

The English writing script descends from the Phoenician script, which is not Paleo Hebrew.

 

[John Milton]

The language assigned to the Ancient Near Eastern people is the Phoenician Language.

The Jewish people of old spoke Hebrew. What you were quoting was Hebrew.

Hebrew is a language invented by Masoretes

This is 100% false.

and Modern Hebrew was invented in the late 1800s.

This is inaccurate. The story of the revival of the Hebrew language, however, is a fascinating one.

So matters is what the words mean to the Phoenicians and Carthaginians, the actual people the language belongs to.

No. That would be like saying we must understand modern English by use of Chaucer.

The English writing script descends from the Phoenician script, which is not Paleo Hebrew.

This is irrelevant.

 

[Lee Magee]

They are words that specifically describe a woman as a wife.

Daniel 5:3 שגלתה ולחנתה his wives, and his concubines

שגל means wife, but according to Strong's, from the verb שגל to violate, ravish. Again, bad semantics.

The actual meaning of שגל is σύγκλινος = συγκλίτης one who lies with one, companion at table.
συγκλίνω lay together:—Pass., lie with, [γυναικί]

Deuteronomy 28:30 ישגלנה —συγκλίνει αὐτήν

לחנה Concubine. according to Strong's from an unused root of uncertain meaning
~ ἄλοχος partner of one's bed, wife Il.1.114, Od.3.403 concubine Il.9.336, Od.4.623
~ ἁμφί ἀλόχῳ (פילגש) wife added to a wife

בעלת wife ~ πότνια mistress
דדת uncle's wife ~ τηθίς aunt vv. ll. τιτθίδα, τητθίδα

Phoenician language synchronises well with Homeric Greek. Also, Phoenicians are mentioned in Homer, thus authenticating the Phoenician people.

 

[Lee Magee]

The Jewish people of old spoke Hebrew. What you were quoting was Hebrew.

There is a actually a neat trick to revert the language back to Phoenician.

בְּרֵאשִׁית (Hebrew)
בראשית (Phoenician)

Tabnit sarcophagus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is a Phoenician Sarcophagus of a King and the word that is used for King is ??? which is the same as מלך and this becomes Hebrew
when written מֶלֶךְ (Melek) as pronounced by the late Masoretes.

 

[John Milton]

They are words that specifically describe a woman as a wife.



שגל means wife, but according to Strong's, from the verb שגל to violate, ravish. Again, bad semantics.

The actual meaning of שגל is σύγκλινος = συγκλίτης one who lies with one, companion at table.
συγκλίνω lay together:—Pass., lie with, [γυναικί]

Deuteronomy 28:30 ישגלנה —συγκλίνει αὐτήν

לחנה Concubine. according to Strong's from an unused root of uncertain meaning
~ ἄλοχος partner of one's bed, wife Il.1.114, Od.3.403 concubine Il.9.336, Od.4.623
~ ἁμφί ἀλόχῳ (פילגש) wife added to a wife

בעלת wife ~ πότνια mistress
דדת uncle's wife ~ τηθίς aunt vv. ll. τιτθίδα, τητθίδα

Phoenician language synchronises well with Homeric Greek. Also, Phoenicians are mentioned in Homer, thus authenticating the Phoenician people.

We were discussing the Greek rendering of Num. 36:12. Your remarks here aren’t relevant.

 

[John Milton]

There is a actually a neat trick to revert the language back to Phoenician.

בְּרֵאשִׁית (Hebrew)
בראשית (Phoenician)

Tabnit sarcophagus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is a Phoenician Sarcophagus of a King and the word that is used for King is ??? which is the same as מלך and this becomes Hebrew
when written מֶלֶךְ (Melek) as pronounced by the late Masoretes.

There’s a bit more to it than that, but the general idea that Hebrew derived from Phonecian is sound. It doesn’t mean that later writing should be understood by earlier meanings. Language should be analyzed according to what it meant at the time it was written. Language changes over time.

 

[Lee Magee]

We were discussing the Greek rendering of Num. 36:12. Your remarks here aren’t relevant.

The King James says "they were married", but the word married is a verbal adjective and γυνή is a noun. By comparison, the Vulgate does not mention women or wives.

Numbers 36:12 de familia Manasse qui fuit filius Ioseph et possessio quae illis fuerat adtributa mansit in tribu et familia patris earum

"From the family of Manasseh, who was the son of Joseph and the possession which had been attributed to them remained in the tribe and family of their father"

γυνή, ἀνδρίς אשה Woman

γυναῖκες
Gen 4:23 - נשי
Gen 6:18 - אשת
Exo 1:19 - נשי

The Antiquities of the Jews, 11.71
some there were also who were expelled out of the number and honor of the priests, as having married wives (ἠγμένοι γυναῖκας) whose genealogies they could not produce, nor were they found in the genealogies of the Levites and priests; they were about five hundred and twenty-five

ἠγμένοι γυναῖκας married women

Xenophon, Constitution of the Lacedaimonians 1.6
In addition to this, he withdrew from men the right to take a wife whenever they chose, and insisted on their marrying in the prime of their manhood, believing that this too promoted the production of fine children.

πρὸς δὲ τούτοις καὶ ἀποπαύσας τοῦ ὁπότε βούλοιντο ἕκαστοι γυναῖκα ἄγεσθαι, ἔταξεν ἐν ἀκμαῖς τῶν σωμάτων τοὺς γάμους ποιεῖσθαι, καὶ τοῦτο συμφέρον τῇ εὐγονίᾳ νομίζων

γυναῖκα ἄγεσθαι to marry a woman

Another Lacedaimonian traditions found in the Old Testament, for men in the OT seem to have children late in their manhood. Favouring the later-born and eating barley-cakes (unleavened bread) are other Lacedaimonian traditions.

Homer, Odyssey 14.211 ἠγαγόμην δὲ γυναῖκα πολυκλήρων ἀνθρώπων
I led to myself a woman from men of many possessions
or/ ἠγαγόμην δὲ γυναῖκα "I married a woman"

Deu 24:1 כי־יקח איש אשה ובעלה "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her"

The verb יקח is λάχῃ (λαγχάνω) and verbal בעל is πάσηται (πάομαι) *כי κε epic for ἄν. Also in Deu 24:1 כריתת is translated divorcement, this is ῥήτρας 'agreement and ערות means πονηρία bad state, in a moral sense, wickedness.

Deuteronomy 24:1
אם לא תמצא חן ἂν οὖν ἐντύχῃ ἔλεον' "If, therefore, She do not find compassion"

 

[John Milton]

The King James says "they were married", but the word married is a verbal adjective and γυνή is a noun. By comparison, the Vulgate does not mention women or wives.


"From the family of Manasseh, who was the son of Joseph and the possession which had been attributed to them remained in the tribe and family of their father"

γυνή, ἀνδρίς אשה Woman

γυναῖκες
Gen 4:23 - נשי
Gen 6:18 - אשת
Exo 1:19 - נשי



ἠγμένοι γυναῖκας married women



γυναῖκα ἄγεσθαι to marry a woman

Another Lacedaimonian traditions found in the Old Testament, for men in the OT seem to have children late in their manhood. Favouring the later-born and eating barley-cakes (unleavened bread) are other Lacedaimonian traditions.

Homer, Odyssey 14.211 ἠγαγόμην δὲ γυναῖκα πολυκλήρων ἀνθρώπων
I led to myself a woman from men of many possessions
or/ ἠγαγόμην δὲ γυναῖκα "I married a woman"

Deu 24:1 כי־יקח איש אשה ובעלה "When a man hath taken a wife, and married her"

The verb יקח is λάχῃ (λαγχάνω) and verbal בעל is πάσηται (πάομαι) *כי κε epic for ἄν. Also in Deu 24:1 כריתת is translated divorcement, this is ῥήτρας 'agreement and ערות means πονηρία bad state, in a moral sense, wickedness.

Deuteronomy 24:1
אם לא תמצא חן ἂν οὖν ἐντύχῃ ἔλεον' "If, therefore, She do not find compassion"

The Latin translation omitted the repeated mention of the women’s marriages. It renders γίνομαι as married in verse 11. “et nupserunt Maala et Thersa et Egla et Melcha et Noa filiis patrui sui.” Why are you continuing to argue against the facts?

Your other remarks seem irrelevant.

 

[Lee Magee]

Numbers 36:11
For Mahlah, Tirzah, and Hoglah, and Milcah, and Noah, the daughters of Zelophehad, were married unto their father's brothers' sons

MT ותהיינה מחלה תרצה וחגלה ומלכה ונעה בנות צלפחד לבני דדיהן לנשים
LXX καὶ ἐγένοντο Θερσα καὶ Εγλα καὶ Μελχα καὶ Νουα καὶ Μααλα θυγατέρες Σαλπααδ τοῖς ἀνεψιοῖς αὐτῶν
VUL et nupserunt Maala et Thersa et Egla et Melcha et Noa filiis patrui sui

The verb begins with nupserunt (verb 3rd pl perf ind act) in the Vulgate and ἐγένοντο (verb 3rd pl aor ind mid) in the Septuagnt
but a translation for is לנשים omitted in both versions.

Zelophehad (צלפחד) is a name meaning Καλλίπαιδος (καλλίπαις) "blessed with fair children"


לבני דדיהן
The Sept does not translate these words, but interprets τοῖς ἀνεψιοῖς αὐτῶν "their cousins" , but the literal reading
be παισίν θείου αὐτῶν or παισίν τηθίδος αὐτῶν. "Sons of their uncle" .

תהיינה
The initial verb is conjugates from הי (εἰμί) and the verb here is התהי (σύνειμι), thus תהיינה be translated into συνεγένοντο cf. σύνεισιν

σύνειμι to be with, be joined, to live with a husband

Numbers 36:12
σύνεισιν γυναιξίν היו לנשים "They were intimate with the women"

This translations accounts the dative לנשים.

So the Greek is therefore fixed up here.

 

[John Milton]

MT ותהיינה מחלה תרצה וחגלה ומלכה ונעה בנות צלפחד לבני דדיהן לנשים

“And they were Mahlah, Tirzah, and Hoglah, and Milcah, and Noah, the daughters of Zelophehad, to the sons of their uncles for wives”

LXX καὶ ἐγένοντο Θερσα καὶ Εγλα καὶ Μελχα καὶ Νουα καὶ Μααλα θυγατέρες Σαλπααδ τοῖς ἀνεψιοῖς αὐτῶν

“And they were Thersa and Egla and Melcha and Nua and Malaa [the] daughters of Salpaad [wives] to their cousins”

VUL et nupserunt Maala et Thersa et Egla et Melcha et Noa filiis patrui sui

“And they were married Maala and Thersa and Egla and Melcha and Noa to [the] brothers of their father”

The verb begins with nupserunt (verb 3rd pl perf ind act) in the Vulgate and ἐγένοντο (verb 3rd pl aor ind mid) in the Septuagnt
but a translation for is לנשים omitted in both versions.

The Hebrew noun construct “for the women” isn’t needed in Greek. It is understood in that manner without it. The Greek follows the Hebrew almost exactly in every way except for the order of the names and it replaces “sons of their uncles” with “their cousins” which are obviously equivalent to each other.

The translators of the Latin text rendered the phrase more idiomatically, but there is nothing wrong with it or any of the translations. That you feel the need to try to fix it just proves you aren’t up to the task you have undertaken.

The Sept does not translate these words, but interprets τοῖς ἀνεψιοῖς αὐτῶν "their cousins" , but the literal reading
be παισίν θείου αὐτῶν or παισίν τηθίδος αὐτῶν. "Sons of their uncle" .

No. More likely would be “τοῖς υἱοῖς τῶν πάτρων αὐτῶν” since παῖς is both generic and associated with servants and θείου and τηθίδος would allow marriage to their mother’s brothers which would defeat the purpose of the prohibition of marriage outside the tribe in the context of the passage.

The initial verb is conjugates from הי (εἰμί) and the verb here is התהי (σύνειμι), thus תהיינה be translated into συνεγένοντο cf. σύνεισιν

There is nothing wrong with rendering the verb as the LXX has. Both words overlap in meaning in many instances.

σύνειμι to be with, be joined, to live with a husband

Numbers 36:12
σύνεισιν γυναιξίν היו לנשים "They were intimate with the women"

This translations accounts the dative לנשים.

So the Greek is therefore fixed up here.

There is nothing wrong with what the translators wrote. There are other ways that the thought could’ve been expressed, but there are no errors in these texts. As I’ve said before, you’d be best served to learn the languages before you continue your project, or you will be wasting your time.

 

[Lee Magee]

θεῖος one's father's or mother's brother, uncle
θεία one's father's or mother's sister

θεία is the latter form of τηθίς that as no masculine form. But there is דד and דדת

Leviticus 25:49 Either his uncle, or his uncle's son
MT או־דדו או בן־דדו
LXX ἀδελφὸς πατρὸς αὐτοῦ ἢ υἱὸς ἀδελφοῦ πατρὸς

Leviticus 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
MT ערות אחי־אביך לא תגלה אל־אשתו לא תקרב דדתך הוא
LXX ἀσχημοσύνην ἀδελφοῦ τοῦ πατρός σου οὐκ ἀποκαλύψεις καὶ πρὸς τὴν γυναῖκα αὐτοῦ οὐκ εἰσελεύσῃ συγγενὴς γάρ σού ἐστιν

אח brother κάσις
דדת aunt τηθίς

In Leviticus 18:14 ערות are privy parts, so the translation should be “τὰ μόρια”

תגלה δηλώσεις 'show'
תקרב πελάσεις approach (in marriage)

συγγενής of the same kin, descent or family with another, at the Persian court a title bestowed by the king as a mark of honour.
= סגן.

 

[Lee Magee]

Leviticus 4:32 And if he bring a lamb for a sin offering, he shall bring it a female without blemish.
MT ואם־כבש יביא קרבנו לחטאת נקבה תמימה יביאנה
LXX ἐὰν δὲ πρόβατον προσενέγκῃ τὸ δῶρον αὐτοῦ εἰς ἁμαρτίαν θῆλυ ἄμωμον προσοίσει αὐτό

ὄις כבש Lat. ovis, sheep, both ram and ewe, ὄϊν ἀρνειὸν ῥέζειν θῆλύν τε to sacrifice a male sheep and a female
παρέχει יביא hand over?
ἱερεῖον קרבן an animal for sacrifice or slaughter
κάθαρσις חטאת cleansing from guilt or defilement, purifying, καθάρσιον (sc. ἱερόν) purificatory offering.
τέλειον תמים perfect, of victims, entire, without spot or blemish, “ἀρνῶν αἰγῶν τε τελείων” Il.1.66.
ἄμωμος " " without blemish cf. μῶμος מום = blame, blemish

The vocabulary here is found in Homer, not reflected in the Septuagint since its written in a latter Attic dialect.

 

[Lee Magee]

Greek in Hebrew?

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments.
MT. ראה למדתי אתכם חקים ומשפטים
LXX. ἴδετε δέδειχα ὑμῖν δικαιώματα καὶ κρίσεις
Vulgate. scitis quod docuerim vos praecepta atque iustitias

ראה also be ὁρᾶτε (verb 2nd pl pres imperative), rather then ἴδετε (verb 2nd pl aor imperative act), this verb is irregular in the Greek language. The Latin verb scitis is a verb in 2nd plural present.

למדתי μεμάθηκα (μανθάνω = למד) to learn, acquire a habit of, and in past tenses, to be accustomed to
חקים δίκαι righteous judgments
משפטים θέμιστες customary laws, ordinances, rights

Genesis 38:14 and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself
MT ותכס בצעיף ותתעלף
LXX περιεβάλετο θέριστρον καὶ ἐκαλλωπίσατο

כסה κεύθω to cover quite up, to cover
צעיף σκέπασμα, σκέπη (σκεπάζω/הצעיף) a covering, of clothing generally.
התעלף συγκαλύπτω cover or veil completely