Setting Argumentive Things Aside

[DeSanto]

But because they've been taught that the RCC cannot fail, err, fall away from the "true faith" no matter what, then how can the faithful stand against whatever the RCC claims is true?

The Lord said… the gates of hell will not prevail. Is this the teaching you are referring to?

When your sole reference for spiritual truth is the declarations of men who claim to be infallible,impeccable, and indefectible, how can you say, "No, that is not right!" Especially when your "authorities" can turn on you and say, "No, you and your private interpretations are wrong. Go back to sleep, foolish one!"

When you start off with a false premise, how can you come to a reliable conclusion?

That is not my sole reference for spiritual truth.

The RCC – along with many cults – has no external canon (rule) by which it can be judged by its members.

That is false as well.

Finally, how many times in history has a group of the faithful, wishing "to preserve the true faith", been successful?

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"

You insinuate there is no true faith, or that it has not been preserved.

 

[balshan]

Luther was an agent for those who wished to divide/destroy the church.

Everywhere. All over. But this is a spiritual battle. You’re not going to see people marching through the streets with pitch forks. And since the media is involved in the diabolical conspiracy against the truth, you’re only going to see reports that are favorable to their narrative.

But we’re here and I am willing to put aside our differences in this fight.

That is rubbish and insults Luther who did as God was leading him. The pope at the time was an agent for dividing and destroying the false church. If he wasn't he would not have risen money by indulgences for a start. So unbiblical. He would not have been greedy etc. Oh give us all a break, thank God for the media, they brought into the open what the RCC was hiding and allowing to flourish. Your institution is a sewer that is why they did nothing about the evil within its walls.

I will never accept the false teachings, the evil leadership of your institution.

 

[DeSanto]

That is rubbish

Okay then, no point in continuing this conversation.

 

[balshan]

Okay then, no point in continuing this conversation.

Well it was and it was attacking a man who was brave enough to stand up for what was right.

 

[JoeT]

Do you think that the differences between Roman Catholics and Evangelicals can be set aside?

In my opinion the differences cannot be resolved. Protestant, Evangelicals, and reformers are vacant from the one true faith in Jesus Christ.

Protestantism is vacant of a real presence and will never have one.
Protestantism is vacant of a priesthood, they no longer have heredity.
Protestantism is vacant of a tradition, it is denounced an made in the popular image.
Protestantism is vacant of a real faith, instead impose a relativistic faith.
Protestantism is vacant of a supernatural world, without saints.
Protestantism is vacant of reality, instead they worship in symbols and metaphors.
Protestantism is vacant of religion, no solemnity in worship substituting emotion.
Protestantism is vacant of ritual, as empty as their churches.
Protestantism is vacant of from unity, instead promote protest against the Church.

I don't think I covered it all but you get the idea.

JoeT

 

[RiJoRi]

The Lord said… the gates of hell will not prevail. Is this the teaching you are referring to?

That is the words that the RCC has claimed for itself.

When you start off with a false premise, how can you come to a reliable conclusion?

The RCC does it all the time. You tell me!

That is not my sole reference for spiritual truth.

Then you are in trouble with the Holy Office. Rome says that she is the only way, the whole truth, and the life.

That is false as well.

Oh? What do you use to test the veracity of Rome's claims? If you believe the RCC is wrong, to whom can you go for redress?

You insinuate there is no true faith, or that it has not been preserved.

No, I proclaim and admit publicly that there is a true faith, that God has kept that faith through the millennia, just as He promised. The Roman Catholic Church was slipping into the world system, and finally God said, "Enough! Come out of her, My people." And they did. So what was the RCC's reaction? When they found out that they could not silence God's Word (Wycliffe, Tyndall, etc.), nor halt His Spirit, they threatened people with torture and death, and came up with a document denying many plain teachings of the Bible. Simply on the basis of "If those protesters believe it, we deny it."

 

[balshan]

In my opinion the differences cannot be resolved. Protestant, Evangelicals, and reformers are vacant from the one true faith in Jesus Christ.

Protestantism is vacant of a real presence and will never have one.
Protestantism is vacant of a priesthood, they no longer have heredity.
Protestantism is vacant of a tradition, it is denounced an made in the popular image.
Protestantism is vacant of a real faith, instead impose a relativistic faith.
Protestantism is vacant of a supernatural world, without saints.
Protestantism is vacant of reality, instead they worship in symbols and metaphors.
Protestantism is vacant of religion, no solemnity in worship substituting emotion.
Protestantism is vacant of ritual, as empty as their churches.
Protestantism is vacant of from unity, instead promote protest against the Church.

I don't think I covered it all but you get the idea.

JoeT

RCc has never had the HS and is definitely vacant of the real presence. We know this because the evil fruit that has been produced by the RCC over the centuries. The RC has no relationship with Jesus and will never have one. Jesus cannot be with those who harm the sheep.

All real believers are all priests in the real church, the RC leaders do not even meet the scriptural requirements for leaders especially the one about having a good reputation.
1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

rev 1:6

And made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

The RCC has a false tradition and is pointless. col 2:8 warns against RC traditions:

To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


The RCC has a false faith and thinks it needs to go through Mary and earn their salvation through works.

The RCC has false saints. In fact, RC saints can even be non existent people. All real believers are saints.

Rom 1:7

To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Seriously it is RCC that is without reality and worship symbols and metaphors. Mary is a symbol and a metaphor that RCs worship, no matter what they call it. If it looks like worship it is worship.

LOL God feels emotions it is all throughout the scriptures how God has emotions. RCs masses are empty and a waste of time, they lack even the emotion of love. But that is no surprise at all.

LOL the RCC lacks unity we have seen how they hack into one another on this forum and its many threads.

Yep you get the idea you just made a number of false claims without evidence.

 

[DeSanto]

That is the words that the RCC has claimed for itself.

Those are the words of our Lord!!! And it is an article of faith as taught by the Catholic Church.

Or as you would say, “a reference for spiritual truth.”

The RCC does it all the time. You tell me!

You don’t seem to be having any trouble doing it yourself.

Then you are in trouble with the Holy Office.

??? You’re not making any sense.

Rome says that she is the only way, the whole truth, and the life.

False. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a8.htm

Oh? What do you use to test the veracity of Rome's claims?

What claims are you referring to?

If you believe the RCC is wrong, to whom can you go for redress?

My Lord. Who do you go to?

No, I proclaim and admit publicly that there is a true faith, that God has kept that faith through the millennia, just as He promised.

Then we agree!!!

The Roman Catholic Church was slipping into the world system, and finally God said, "Enough! Come out of her, My people." And they did.

Really? Are you a Preterist? You think Revelation 18 already happened and that the Catholic Church is a “great city” that has fallen, utterly burned with fire, and all the merchants of the earth wept and mourned over her because no man can buy their merchandise any more?

So what was the RCC's reaction? When they found out that they could not silence God's Word (Wycliffe, Tyndall, etc.)

Wycliffe, Tyndall, etc = God’s Word?? Sounds like somebody drank the koolaid.

nor halt His Spirit, they threatened people with torture and death, and came up with a document denying many plain teachings of the Bible. Simply on the basis of "If those protesters believe it, we deny it."

I’m not sure what you’re quoting, but it sounds like pure projection to me.

 

[RayneBeau]

The same could be said about the so called pope and his cronies today. And many faithful are being persecuted by him. But if his design is to corrupt and destroy the church, faithful everywhere should be standing against that and fighting to preserve the true faith. Not abandoning it or working with the enemy to destroy it.

Who does the Roman Catholic identify as "the enemy"?

 

[balshan]

Who does the Roman Catholic identify as "the enemy"?

When I went to RC schools it was all Non RCs, we were told they were tools of the devil trying to steal us from the one true church.

 

[DeSanto]

Who does the Roman Catholic identify as "the enemy"?

Is that a trick question? You trying to trip me up? Who do you think the enemy is?

I’ve already identified and made very clear this as an ongoing spiritual battle. And I’ve suggested we stop fighting each other and allowing distractions to divide us. But I think many here get off on this stuff and it’s disgusting. I can’t barely stand coming here to this forum. Only once and a while I’ll visit to see if anything has changed. It has not. It’s exactly the same as it was in 2012 when I joined and the same old people repeating the same old arguments. Including you! It’s old and it’s TOXIC to everyone's spiritual health.

 

[balshan]

Is that a trick question? You trying to trip me up? Who do you think the enemy is?

I’ve already identified and made very clear this as an ongoing spiritual battle. And I’ve suggested we stop fighting each other and allowing distractions to divide us. But I think many here get off on this stuff and it’s disgusting. I can’t barely stand coming here to this forum. Only once and a while I’ll visit to see if anything has changed. It has not. It’s exactly the same as it was in 2012 when I joined and the same old people repeating the same old arguments. Including you! It’s old and it’s TOXIC to everyone's spiritual health.

It is not fighting to disagree and you just want people to say oh yes the RCC is right and it isn't. If it is that bad no one is twisting your arm to stay. But the RCs only repeat the same old things that do not prove their beliefs and then complain that we disagree, so no nothing changes because a false belief can never be proven right.

Yep and your post was an example of how Toxic RCs responses are, you are doing nothing to clear anything up.

 

[Churchmouse]

It depends on what you mean by "set aside."

Do I think Catholics and Protestants will ever reunite and become one Church, one Faith, etc? No. In order for the Christian Church to reunite and become one in Faith, Protestants would---have to give up--everything that makes them Protestant. I do not see that happening. The differences between Catholics and Protestants are not like the differences between say--Weis Markets and Tops, Pizza Hut and Dominos, Burger King and McDonalds. One may suggest that the differences between the Protestants sects are more analogous to that, but not the differences between Protestants and Catholics.

Catholicism is different in essence from Protestantism. The differences between Catholics and Protestants is not degree but kind. The differences between Protestants are degree, not kind. Thus, reunion--I do not see happening.

That being said: I disagree with Protestants, but I have always respected them as brothers and sisters in Christ. I have always thought them well intentioned people who I disagree with. You do not see me in their churches attempting to prostitlilize them. You do not see me attempting that with family or friends. I would not encourage Catholic converts to run around badmouthing the sect they left--to anyone who will listen--especially current members of that sect. When I was organist in a Five Point Calvinist church, the pastor asked me if I had a problem with Five Point Calvinism. I said "Hell yes I have a problem with that. If I agreed with it, I would be a member of your Church! But as organist, I am a guest in your house. Your house, your rules. I am just here to play the organ." The pastor hired me on the spot.

I wish Protestants could just accept that we disagree and leave it at that. So we have devotion to Mary, we believe in Purgatory, we have devotion to the saints, etc. So what? So we have Sacraments. Why are Protestants so obsessed with this? Why are they so hung up on this. It is as if they think we Catholics literally walk around all day going "Jesus, who cares about you, I want to talk to your mother." I just do not understand why they care. Obviously you are Protestant becasue you do not believe these things. Fine. Whatever. Do what you want in your sect. Leave us to our practices and Faith.

Do what you want in your sect.

Hi,

To do so would be a complete misunderstanding of evangelization. If a Protestant (and I use this word in its conservative sense) were to practice his/her faith, this would mean that evangelization (not "proselytize") would be central to his/her faith. It comes with the territory, per se. Hence, if one is convinced that Rome preaches a false gospel, yet refrains from evangelizing Roman Catholics, that person isn't practicing his/her faith whether forthright or in ignorance. So, biblically, if we truly believe that a Catholic, or any other religion for that matter (even some "Protestant" faiths), believes a false gospel, to ignore this would be a complete compromise of the Great Commission. True, it may be just a waste of time, but that's really not up to us. Jesus commanded us to spread the gospel and we just obey.

Peace,
Ray

 

[pilgrim]

Hi,

To do so would be a complete misunderstanding of evangelization. If a Protestant (and I use this word in its conservative sense) were to practice his/her faith, this would mean that evangelization (not "proselytize") would be central to his/her faith. It comes with the territory, per se. Hence, if one is convinced that Rome preaches a false gospel, yet refrains from evangelizing Roman Catholics, that person isn't practicing his/her faith whether forthright or in ignorance. So, biblically, if we truly believe that a Catholic, or any other religion for that matter (even some "Protestant" faiths), believes a false gospel, to ignore this would be a complete compromise of the Great Commission. True, it may be just a waste of time, but that's really not up to us. Jesus commanded us to spread the gospel and we just obey.

Peace,
Ray

1. Who determines what the true Gospel is? Wouldn't it be the role of the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth to decide?
2. The Great Commission was only given to the Church present at the Ascension, not to those who came 1500 or more years later.

 

[balshan]

1. Who determines what the true Gospel is? Wouldn't it be the role of the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth to decide?
2. The Great Commission was only given to the Church present at the Ascension, not to those who came 1500 or more years later.

Your institution is NOT THE pillar and foundation of truth we know this because it cannot tell the truth but it can tell lies. Liars can never be trusted.

The great commission was given to all believers, your institution was not at the Ascension.

The only scriptural test your institution passes is the bad tree test.

 

[Churchmouse]

1. Who determines what the true Gospel is? Wouldn't it be the role of the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth to decide?. you
2. The Great Commission was only given to the Church present at the Ascension, not to those who came 1500 or more years later.

1. Who determines what the true Gospel is? Wouldn't it be the role of the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth to decide?
2. The Great Commission was only given to the Church present at the Ascension, not to those who came 1500 or more years later.

1. Well, what is the gospel? It is what Christ asked his disciples to spread to the world. Hence, Christ's plain words isn't a matter of figuring out. The gospel is the "good news" of Christ. We need no church to see what is plain.

2. The great commission was given to His disciples. Hence, anyone who is a disciple is commissioned to spread the gospel. Those who came 1500 years after the original disciples or present at the assumption.

Your assertions are based on assumptions; thus, I reject that which you would never be able to prove.

Peace,
Ray

 

[pilgrim]

1. Well, what is the gospel? It is what Christ asked his disciples to spread to the world. Hence, Christ's plain words isn't a matter of figuring out. The gospel is the "good news" of Christ. We need no church to see what is plain.

2. The great commission was given to His disciples. Hence, anyone who is a disciple is commissioned to spread the gospel. Those who came 1500 years after the original disciples or present at the assumption.

Your assertions are based on assumptions; thus, I reject that which you would never be able to prove.

Peace,
Ray

1. I agree, in a general sense. But when it comes down to specifics of the faith, who decides? The Church as a whole or each individual as they see fit?

2. The Great Commission was given to the 11, the chosen leaders of Jesus' Church, and to their successors, the bishops, as we see in the election of Matthias in Acts 1:20 to fill the office vacated by Judas. The Gospel message should be in line with the Church that was given the charism to teach.

 

[balshan]

1. I agree, in a general sense. But when it comes down to specifics of the faith, who decides? The Church as a whole or each individual as they see fit?

2. The Great Commission was given to the 11, the chosen leaders of Jesus' Church, and to their successors, the bishops, as we see in the election of Matthias in Acts 1:20 to fill the office vacated by Judas. The Gospel message should be in line with the Church that was given the charism to teach.

Your institution is not the church and Jesus would have nothing to do with it. Jesus would never establish an institution that would harm His sheep with false doctrines, sexual sins etc.

The great commission was to every single believer not to evil leaders of your institution, who forced conversion for centuries. These forced conversion did not come from God.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Hi,

To do so would be a complete misunderstanding of evangelization. If a Protestant (and I use this word in its conservative sense) were to practice his/her faith, this would mean that evangelization (not "proselytize") would be central to his/her faith. It comes with the territory, per se. Hence, if one is convinced that Rome preaches a false gospel, yet refrains from evangelizing Roman Catholics, that person isn't practicing his/her faith whether forthright or in ignorance. So, biblically, if we truly believe that a Catholic, or any other religion for that matter (even some "Protestant" faiths), believes a false gospel, to ignore this would be a complete compromise of the Great Commission. True, it may be just a waste of time, but that's really not up to us. Jesus commanded us to spread the gospel and we just obey.

Peace,
Ray

And you think "Bible Thumping" is what Jesus had in mind when he commanded evangelization, do you?

You think "Bible Thumping" attracts people to your Gospel, do you? You think "Bible Thumping" makes me want to be part of your religion, do you?

This is what you think Jesus came to do? Jesus came Bible Thumping, did he?

Well, then, by all means, keep it up!

 

[balshan]

And you think "Bible Thumping" is what Jesus had in mind when he commanded evangelization, do you?

You think "Bible Thumping" attracts people to your Gospel, do you? You think "Bible Thumping" makes me want to be part of your religion, do you?

This is what you think Jesus came to do? Jesus came Bible Thumping, did he?

Well, then, by all means, keep it up!

Better than losing your life. In fact, some conversos where killed as soon as they converted to the RC so they could not go back to Judaism.
No one is bible thumping at all. That is you doing what you claim you don't like caricaturing the practices of others.
Well Jesus didn't come to force people to follow Him like RCs have done for centuries, in fact, what happened to that so called free will RCs love.

Loving your neighbours is misunderstood by RCs.