Shall we CONTINUE in sin that grace might abound ?

civic said:
Yes I would be very interested in your comments, ideas etc......
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All righty then… So we are discussing the issue of sin in the life of believers. From reading posts in the recent Lordship Salvation thread I have come to realize that we as Christians have a lot of different ideas about sin and how it is dealt with in the lives of believers.

The first thing I have to say about the sin issue is… it’s not an issue. Christ has dealt with sin on the cross once and for all. He said it is finished. The separation between God and man known as the “sin barrier” has been removed. The veil of the temple has been torn and now we are allowed to come boldly before the throne. There’s no more sin offering, Jesus paid that price in full.

So then why do we still sin? Because we live in a fallen world where sin still abounds and we are in the process of being transformed into his image. The doctrine of sanctification. Think about when Jesus washed the feet of his disciples and Peter didn’t think it was appropriate for his Lord to wash his feet. Jesus had to explain to him that it was necessary to have his feet washed to be part of Jesus, to be in the body of Christ. When the believer is made dirty by falling short of the glory of God he needs his feet washed to restore the righteous relationship Jesus.

Our feet get dirty walking around in this fallen world. It is so easy to walk in the flesh. Driving on the interstate and getting cut off then calling the driver a fool (Raca). The Bible teaches that’s the same as being a murder in your heart. Matthew 5:22

So racked that one up as a sin. The bad news is you still have 20 miles to go to get home. The good news is you can start praying, with your eyes open of course. Because the Bible tells us that if we (believers) confess our sins that he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 and John 1:9 That puts us back in right standing with him.

This truth is just one of several from this incident that Christians can apply to their own lives. First, when we come to Christ for the washing of our sins, we can be sure that it is permanent and complete. No act can cleanse us further from our sin, as our sin has been exchanged for the perfect righteousness of Christ on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21). But we do need continual cleansing from the effects of living in the flesh in a sin-cursed world. The continual washing of sanctification is done by the power of the Holy Spirit, who lives within us, through the “washing of water by the Word” (Ephesians 5:26), given to us to equip us for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16–17). GOT?


What the real issue is other than sin is obedience. Were called to abide in Christ. To remain in him. Remain, abide and obey.

know who you believe and why you believe Him. He is the truth away in the life. He will Never steer you wrong.
 
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Predestined said:
All righty then… So we are discussing the issue of sin in the life of believers. From reading posts in the recent Lordship Salvation thread I have come to realize that we as Christians have a lot of different ideas about sin and how it is dealt with in the lives of believers.

The first thing I have to say about the sin issue is… it’s not an issue. Christ has dealt with sin on the cross once and for all. He said it is finished. The separation between God and man known as the “sin barrier” has been removed. The veil of the temple has been torn and now we are allowed to come boldly before the throne. There’s no more sin offering, Jesus paid that price in full.

So then why do we still sin? Because we live in a fallen world where sin still abounds and we are in the process of being transformed into his image. The doctrine of sanctification. Think about when Jesus washed the feet of his disciples and Peter didn’t think it was appropriate for his Lord to wash his feet. Jesus had to explain to him that it was necessary to have his feet washed to be part of Jesus, to be in the body of Christ. When the believer is made dirty by falling short of the glory of God he needs his feet washed to restore the righteous relationship Jesus.

Our feet get dirty walking around in this fallen world. It is so easy to walk in the flesh. Driving on the interstate and getting cut off then calling the driver a fool (Raca). The Bible teaches that’s the same as being a murder in your heart. Matthew 5:22

So racked that one up as a sin. The bad news is you still have 20 miles to go to get home. The good news is you can start praying, with your eyes open of course. Because the Bible tells us that if we (believers) confess our sins that he is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 and John 1:9 That put us back in right standing with him.

This truth is just one of several from this incident that Christians can apply to their own lives. First, when we come to Christ for the washing of our sins, we can be sure that it is permanent and complete. No act can cleanse us further from our sin, as our sin has been exchanged for the perfect righteousness of Christ on the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21). But we do need continual cleansing from the effects of living in the flesh in a sin-cursed world. The continual washing of sanctification is done by the power of the Holy Spirit, who lives within us, through the “washing of water by the Word” (Ephesians 5:26), given to us to equip us for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16–17). GOT?


What the real issue is other than sin is obedience. Were called to abide in Christ. To remain in him. Remain, abide and obey.

know who you believe and why you believe Him. He is the truth away in the life. He will Never steer you wrong.
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Yes that illustration with Jesus and the feet washing is priceless. What a great picture with the feet vs the whole body as it relates to the believer.

Awesome !!!
 
civic said:
Yes that illustration with Jesus and the feet washing is priceless. What a great picture with the feet vs the whole body as it relates to the believer.

Awesome !!!
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I know and we have barely gotten warmed up. From the replies that I've read in this thread it seems like people feel comfortable and are really opening up. Nothing I like better than seeing people being real with God, being real with themselves, and being real with each other. Spiritual growth is a wonderful thing. There's nothing worse than staying stagnant.

Coming from a biker street ministry it's amazing to see the change that Jesus can bring to a repentant sinners life. It reminds me of the song we used to sing "I'm so glad Jesus set me free".

It goes like this... I used to be a_____(fill in the blank) till Jesus set me free.

We all took turns singing that part of the song. The good old days.
 
Predestined said:
I know and we have barely gotten warmed up. From the replies that I've read in this thread it seems like people feel comfortable and are really opening up. Nothing I like better than seeing people being real with God, being real with themselves, and being real with each other. Spiritual growth is a wonderful thing. There's nothing worse than staying stagnant.

Coming from a biker street ministry it's amazing to see the change that Jesus can bring to a repentant sinners life. It reminds me of the song we used to sing "I'm so glad Jesus set me free".

It goes like this... I used to be a_____(fill in the blank) till Jesus set me free.

We all took turns singing that part of the song. The good old days.
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I love it our church in the central valley had a large biker ministry at one time.
 
civic said:
I love it our church in the central valley had a large biker ministry at one time.
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It wasn't set free ministry was it? I have friend up there in set free named pastor Tree. He's real tall and one time when he was preaching a dog lifted his leg on him and he's been pastor Tree ever since
 
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Predestined said:
It wasn't set free ministry was it? I friend up there in set free named pastor Tree. He's real tall and one time when he was preaching a dog lifted his leg on him and he's been pastor Tree ever since
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Ill find out Im not sure
 
Dizerner said:
Be careful though it doesn't become a form of legalistic penance....
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why would you even think wanting to have our hearts right before the Lord is a form of legalism and not desiring to be in a right relationship with God ?

that relationship is no different than me wanting to be right with my wife and ask forgiveness for my offenses and have harmony/unity of mind and heart with her. Being one with Christ is no different than wanting to be one with my wife. its relational. its doing what is right for them. my desire to please them and be in right relationship is no different. in fact I take that back when my relationship with Christ is pleasing to Him its going to be right with my wife. Loving God results in loving others as He would have you love them.
 
civic said:
why would you even think wanting to have our hearts right before the Lord is a form of legalism and not desiring to be in a right relationship with God ?

that relationship is no different than me wanting to be right with my wife and ask forgiveness for my offenses and have harmony/unity of mind and heart with her. Being one with Christ is no different than wanting to be one with my wife. its relational. its doing what is right for them. my desire to please them and be in right relationship is no different. in fact I take that back when my relationship with Christ is pleasing to Him its going to be right with my wife. Loving God results in loving others as He would have you love them.
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I think he's talking about the act of doing it. Like saying Hail Mary's or making the sign of the cross. Doing something out of habit or to look good but not really be into. Just a form of legalism. Like I do this three times every day so I'm holier than you that kind of thing.
 
Predestined said:
I think he's talking about the act of doing it. Like saying Hail Mary's or making the sign of the cross. Doing something out of habit or to look good but not really be into. Just a form of legalism. Like I do this three times every day so I'm holier than you that kind of thing.
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ok I didn't catch that and if that is the case I completely agree. its a matter of the heart and not ritual.
 
civic said:
May it NEVER Be exclaimed Paul in Romans 6:1.

Romans 6:1-14
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.


Do you find it hypocritical that some believe the opposite of what Paul and Jesus taught that you can continue in sin that grace might abound ? Romans 6:1 ?

Don't you know that those who practice sin shall not enter the kingdom of God ?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

See the PAST TENSE in the passage ?

1- you were sinners practicing sin
2- you were washed
3- you were sanctified
4- you were justified

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you


Galatians 5:19-22
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

know what you believe and why you believe it.

hope this helps !!!
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When your sin abounds, are you thankful for the increase of God's grace toward you?
 
Howie said:
Me too.
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You know how it is on the Secular Atheism Board. Atheists ask Christians questions, but the Christians don't answer the questions; at least not in the way the Atheists want. When I'm there, I will answer their questions. This results in the stopping of the mouth, etc...
 
The Bible says the wages of sin is death, but does sin have any real consequences in a believer’s life? I believe there are, such as the of quenching the Holy Spirit. But what I think is most important is to realize that we do sin. So we need to examine ourselves. That’s what this verse speaks to me about.

“God, be merciful to me, a sinner!” (Luke 18:13).

One of the first things we do when we sin as we try to cover it up. Like Adam and Eve in the garden covering themselves with fig leaves. God made a way for Adam and Eve to have their sins covered by starting the sacrificial system and covering them with skins animals. Those animal skins wore out and all the blood from all the animal sacrifices was only temporary Covering.

The good news for us as believers in Jesus Christ is his blood washed our sins away along with the penalty for sin.

So what consequences could there be for believers that sin and choose to remain in that sin? It’s relational, our relationship with our heavenly father is tainted because we choose to hold on to that sin. The relationship is not as good as it could be. At that point what we are basically doing besides being disobedient is telling God how we think this whole salvation thing should be run. In other words were reverting back to covering ourselves with fig leaves and expecting God to bless us.

It’s called “respectable” or “acceptable” sins without any real sense of sin. “It’s like Hay… I’m just doing my own thing. God understands, he knows what I’ve been through. This is how I do it and he's cool with it”.

The reason that doesn’t fly is God has not given us the authority to establish values for different sins. Instead He says through James, “Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for [is guilty of] all of it” (James 2:10).

I’m not talking about following the law but rather stating the fact that sin is sin. It’s falling short of the glory of God. And that’s what our lives should be about as Christians is bringing glory to God. You can’t have it both ways. Can’t live like the devil all week and come to church on Sunday thinking you’re a saint. There’s a little thing called consequences and eventually you will end up being taken out to the woodshed.

Recognizing your sin and asking for forgiveness is key. As Paul wrote in Colossians 2:13-14, “[God has] forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.”

If you want to live a victorious Christian life put on Jesus. For some thirty-three years, Jesus lived a life of perfect obedience to the moral will of God, and then He culminated that obedience by being obedient to the Father’s specific will for Him —an obedience unto death, even death on the cross for our sins. In both His sinless life and His sin-bearing death, Jesus was perfectly obedient, perfectly righteous, and it is that righteousness that is credited to all who believe (Romans 3:21-22; Philippians 3:9).

It’s all about Jesus, he’s the one that set us free. Those that have been forgiven much love much. So if you love much, then obey him and get sin out of your life. It’s a day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, task but he gives us the power to do it.

Remember, it is by the Spirit that we put to death the sins in our lives (Romans 8:13).
 
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