Nic
Well-known member
I was raised in Dallas. I have that drawl down pat.Den it's gotta be da accent! Jus' tawk like Rocky, ya know? Hey, is dis off-subjec' or sumpin'?
--Rich
I was raised in Dallas. I have that drawl down pat.Den it's gotta be da accent! Jus' tawk like Rocky, ya know? Hey, is dis off-subjec' or sumpin'?
--Rich
This is the biggest one for me.Baptism is the work of God.
Here is the complete list of babies baptized by the disciples.This is the biggest one for me.
I never understood why so many evangelicals deny infant baptism.
They even call it being "born again." Why don't they understand that baptism has nothing to do with what WE do, just like birth has nothing to do with what the baby does.
Well you appeared to enjoy writing that one. Good one.😁 Now can you similarly post the comprehensive manifest of every last person baptized by the disciples. Be sure to not leave anyone out. The point as I see it, you will fail to have an exhaustive list. A subset of the set is never as inclusive as the whole.Here is the complete list of babies baptized by the disciples.
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"For the preservation of public order" both Martin Luther and Huldrych Zwingli promoted the total elimination of the Anabaptists (through capital punishment) as a matter of utmost urgency.
Killing anabaptists was the reason most moved to Russia from Germany.
500 years later, Lutherans approached the Mennonites and asked for forgiveness. Mennonites forgave the Lutheran killers on their way out of town.
AnaBaptists are actually anapedobaptists. Menno Simon left the Catholic Church because of their false teachings of infant baptism.
Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Probably! (from a 5'2" 108 lb. grandma in Georgia...)Den it's gotta be da accent! Jus' tawk like Rocky, ya know? Hey, is dis off-subjec' or sumpin'?
--Rich
Hmmmm, good point. When we are baptized, we become part of God's household, adopted sons and daughters. A human baby does nothing when people adopt him; he is completely passive about it. He becomes a member of their family, even though he is too young to understand what is going on.This is the biggest one for me.
I never understood why so many evangelicals deny infant baptism.
They even call it being "born again." Why don't they understand that baptism has nothing to do with what WE do, just like birth has nothing to do with what the baby does.
Just as a genral principle that view is also contrary to the synergism which Paul wrote of, that we are fellow workers with God but that neither the one who plants or the one who waters is anything but God who makes it grow, 1 Cor 3:7-15.Some churches think Baptism is a work WE do, since we perform the rite, along with quoting "in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." WE are the ones who pour water or dip folks in it while quoting that. Ergo, they think it is a work WE do, so we know works don't save, ergo, Baptism doesn't save, either.
It is the interpretive grid they have learned to lay over Scripture. If the grid doesn't allow for the objective true good news of incarnate, crucified, and risen Lord to and for all men then they must find the basis of their assurance somewhere else.But 1 Peter 3 contradicts them. What they fail to realize is that the WORK done in baptism is the forgiveness of sins--and that alone Jesus Christ does, with the word working THROUGH the water. For only God can forgive sins. As Ephesians 5 says:
I have had a couple of evangelicals try to tell me that this means being cleansed by being "washed" by the word, but that isn't what Paul wrote--he said "having cleansed her BY THE WASHING OF WATER WITH THE WORD." The water by itself is nothing, but the word of God spoken during baptism is what cleanses us through the water used in Holy Baptism. Why do they deny the clear words of Scripture?
Here is the complete list of anabaptists and those who taught anabaptist doctrine in Scripture:Here is the complete list of babies baptized by the disciples.
Cite your source since lumping Luther and Zwingli together should be a signal that the major issue wasn't anabaptism. Although there was no central group of anabaptism, the anabaptists as a whole would not be received in any country without first repenting of their sedition, murder, robbery, etc., for an example see Muntzer."For the preservation of public order" both Martin Luther and Huldrych Zwingli promoted the total elimination of the Anabaptists (through capital punishment) as a matter of utmost urgency.
Killing anabaptists was the reason most moved to Russia from Germany.
That is Acts 2:38 and it is an excellent presentation of how those Apostles and disciples whose minds were opened to understand the Scriptures, Luke 24:44-48, were to proclaim repentance and the forgiveness of sins in His name then proclaimed at Pentecost repentance and the forgiveness of sins in His name as, "repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus..."<snip>
Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
That is Mark 16:16 and it tells us of the assurance given to the already baptized disciples of Christ regarding those whom they were going to disciple.Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
"as a whole" is well stated.Cite your source since lumping Luther and Zwingli together should be a signal that the major issue wasn't anabaptism. Although there was no central group of anabaptism, the anabaptists as a whole would not be received in any country without first repenting of their sedition, murder, robbery, etc., for an example see Muntzer.
Exactly!Hmmmm, good point. When we are baptized, we become part of God's household, adopted sons and daughters. A human baby does nothing when people adopt him; he is completely passive about it. He becomes a member of their family, even though he is too young to understand what is going on.
Once again, Ephesians 5:26 has nothing to do with baptism. Sure, God "could" do it through baptism. But He doesn't. This isn't about what God can theoretically do, but about what the Bible says He DOES do.Baptism is the work of God, the forgiveness of sins He gives us,, through the washing of water WITH the word of God. Only God in Christ Jesus can forgive sins, and He can so do so through Holy Baptism. Ergo, it is the work of God, not a work of ours.
I live in South Florida. The New Yorkers have turned our once beautiful Florida into the Jersey Shore with palm trees. And they all treat the locals like crap. So glad the snowbirds have gone home so we don't have to deal with them.Den it's gotta be da accent! Jus' tawk like Rocky, ya know? Hey, is dis off-subjec' or sumpin'?
--Rich
Nothin' personal - they do that to everyone!I live in South Florida. The New Yorkers have turned our once beautiful Florida into the Jersey Shore with palm trees. And they all treat the locals like crap.
Dat's cuz dere mudders never bringed dem up too swell! 😂So glad the snowbirds have gone home so we don't have to deal with them.
Yep. Totally different. Upstate is more like where DW & I are living now - 5 cars in a row is "rush hour"! 😊I have friends from Upstate New York and they always say, "Please don't judge us by the ones from New York City".
It's why they're universally hated. New Yorkers are a word I can't say here, but, in military jargon, it's your fourth point of contact.Nothin' personal - they do that to everyone!
If one believes what Peter wrote above then that means many things recorded in the NT actually occurred in time, including the inarnate, crucified, and risen Lord and His work for all men. Since that is true it follows that Ephesians 5:26 is referring to that work which includes baptism and its effects.Once again, Ephesians 5:26 has nothing to do with baptism.
A common distinction between can and could is that could is used to introduce uncertainty or doubt. Since there is no uncertainty or doubt expressed in Ephesians 5:26-27, Acts 2:38-39, and 1 Peter 3:21-22, etc., regarding the work of the Lord it is an error and an expression of unbelief for a reader to infer or read uncertainty or doubt into the text.Sure, God "could" do it through baptism. But He doesn't. This isn't about what God can theoretically do, but about what the Bible says He DOES do.
Once again, yes it does. What do you think "cleansed her with WATER with the word" means? But you are partially right--it IS about what God does--which is cleanse us of sin by WATER with the word. Baptism.Once again, Ephesians 5:26 has nothing to do with baptism. Sure, God "could" do it through baptism. But He doesn't. This isn't about what God can theoretically do, but about what the Bible says He DOES do.
You're assuming. There's nothing in the text that suggests baptism.If one believes what Peter wrote above then that means many things recorded in the NT actually occurred in time, including the inarnate, crucified, and risen Lord and His work for all men. Since that is true it follows that Ephesians 5:26 is referring to that work which includes baptism and its effects.
Nothing about baptism here."For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body." Eph. 5:23 -NKJV
Not about baptism.Eph. 5:25-27 tells us of how Christ, our loving Lord, is the Savior of the body. "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish." -NKJV
Look at the grammar: Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς “Μετανοήσατε,” [φησίν], “Καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν, καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος."Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”" Acts 2:38-39 -NKJV
Nothing in the Ephesians 5 about baptism.Also, please note from the section in Ephesians 5 that Christ is the one who sanctifies and cleanses in baptism. God works in baptism rather than man.
No, it doesn't.Once again, yes it does.
Read it carefully. It's the Word that washes. The water is only an analogy.What do you think "cleansed her with WATER with the word" means?
The," bath [or washng] of water with the word," is baptism.You're assuming. There's nothing in the text that suggests baptism.
There was to the Apostles and all whose minds have been opened to understand Scripture. That is why Paul spelled it out in Eph. 5:25-27.Nothing about baptism here.
No, the forgiveness of sins does already exist but it only exists in Christ Jesus. People are baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, etc., which can only be rightfully received alone by faith. That is why baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ.Not about baptism.
Look at the grammar: Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς “Μετανοήσατε,” [φησίν], “Καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν, καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος.
"εἰς" is a preposition that indicates something that already exists or has already occurred.
So the remission of sins has already occurred and baptism is because of the remission of sins, not a means to obtain remission of sins.
It's like saying, "Take two aspirin FOR a headache." You don't take two aspirin to get a headache. You take two aspirin because you already have a headache.
Nothing in the text suggests this.The," bath [or washng] of water with the word," is baptism.
He didn't spell it out. He never once says nor suggests that it's baptism.There was to the Apostles and all whose minds have been opened to understand Scripture. That is why Paul spelled it out in Eph. 5:25-27.
The grammar of the verse, which I have already posted for you, indicates that the remission of sins has already taken place and that baptism is a response to the remission of sins.No, the forgiveness of sins does already exist but it only exists in Christ Jesus. People are baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins
OK. Well, since you can't be honest and post the whole thing, i guess I'll have to. Here, let the grown up do your work for you:That is why baptism does now save you through the resurrection of Christ.