Atemi
Well-known member
Yes.
Sheep and goats and...a sheep with a sheepskin cover?
- Thread starter Merton
- Start date
Yes.
leonard03782
Well-known member
MATT 13:
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Washed
Active member
Are you not required to keep the commandments? 2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29
How is that going, btw?
Well their leaders don't seem to believe they are bound at all. But RCs have there many get out of jail cards - they have their seals, they have confession, last rites, sacraments, purgatory and so on. They think these will help appease God but they can never be sure. Being sure would mean they have committed the sin of presumption. In other words, RCs do not trust God and His word.
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romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Of course we have to keep the commandments. Don't you?
You mean to tell me you can be a follower of Christ and commit adultery, dishonor your parents, murder people, steal, and covet? These people inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?
Washed
Active member
So you keep the commandments. I don't believe you. Scripture says if one claims to have no sin, they are a liar. Are you a liar or do you want to rethink your statement, "of course we have to keep the commandments"
Back to the subject. Isn't the character that is presented exactly what it is? You have to be perfect (one who can keep the commandments by definition is perfect)
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Again, sir, let me ask you:
Can adulterers, thieves, murderers, etc, inherit the Kingdom of God? Yes or no?
Sir, if it is impossible to keep the commandments, why does God expect His followers to keep the commandments? Why did God even give them in the first place?
John 15:9-10: “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love."
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Washed
Active member
Again, do you keep them? Yes or no?
The reason for the Ten commandments is a tutor, to show us how desperately wicked we are (no one can keep them) hence the very reason for an need for a SAVIOR who is Jesus.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Why did Jesus tell us to keep his commands? You totally ignored the Scripture I cited. "If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love."
Washed
Active member
1. He was speaking to the Jews (not born-again believers, His sheep)
2. To demonstrate to them that they need a savior, as no one can keep them.
Again, is your final answer that you keep the commandments? Yes or no?
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
I see. So Jesus has no expectation that his followers will keep his commandments? That is what you are saying? THAT is your argument? That said commandments applies ONLY to Jews?
So then----Christian thieves, murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, liars, etc, will inherit the Kingdom of God? Is that what you are saying? Only Jews are not allowed to commit adultery, etc? Christians ARE?
Christians do NOT have to keep the commandments--only Jews? THAT is your argument?
Christians who lie, murder, steal, cheat, commit adultery, etc, will inherit the Kingdom of God? There is NO expectation on the part of Jesus that his followers convert and give up such lifestyles?
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
it's the other way around, of course. CATHOLICS see Jesus as "Insufficient" - consequently they invented their phony "Blessed Virgin", and their phony "Canonized Saints", their phony "Sacraments" to earn "grace" and their phony "Purgatorial sanctification" to compensate for Jesus' shortcomings on the cross.
OF COURSE filthy humans are "In Christ" as the bible says (your "sheepsking pelt pejorative". The only RIGHTEOUSNESS you or me will EVER HAVE, is His.
How PERFECTLY do YOU live your life????
Washed
Active member
Do you keep the commandments, yes or no?
All men are to keep the commandments because to be in the presence of a Holy God, you must be Holy. Here is the rub, NO ONE can keep them. We all sin and fall short of the GLORY of God. Hence the reason for a SAVIOR, Jesus. The commandments demonstrate how wicked we are, how we cannot be holy (sinless. keeping those commandments). God. in His great mercy, remedied this conundrum. He sent his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believe IN Him, shall have eternal life.
Are you wicked? Do you keep the commandments?
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Answer my question please:
Can adulterers, thieves, homosexuals, liars, etc, inherit the Kingdom of God? Yes or no?
Is it only Jews who are are expected to keep the commandments? Christians do not have to do so? A homosexual who follows Christ can keep right on sinning? Someone who cheats on their spouse can tell their spouse "I can't possibility keep the commandments, and I don't have to anyway. I believe in Christ, so I have eternal life. I do not have to stop cheating on you. Christ does not demand that of me."
THIS is what you are saying it means to be a Christian?
The sheepskin pelt is not a pejorative. It is Jesus' own life of righteous deeds. It is perfect, beautiful, unblemished, pure wool.
The common description of "imputation" I have read is that Jesus' own personal righteousness covers you like a cloak or mantle to hide the reality that lies beneath (your own righteousness that are as rags). But God credits you as having Jesus' righteousness, which you have by faith. The whole point is that God is crediting you with perfect righteousness because God is looking on Jesus' righteousness and not your own, which is not perfect.
It's like Jacob receiving the blessing of inheritance, to which he has no right, based on the Father reckoning him to be Esau:
Then Rebekah took the best clothes of Esau her older son, which she had in the house, and put them on her younger son Jacob. She also covered his hands and the smooth part of his neck with the goatskins. (Genesis 27:15-16)
Only you are not wearing smelly goatskins, but instead wearing Jesus's pure, pristine wool.
Certainly not perfectly. Far from being as perfect as Jesus led and leads his own life. I believe that God's grace has changed me and poured sufficient love (agape) into my heart to keep me from being a murderer, swindler, cheater, etc., (the kind of people that Paul says will not inherit the kingdom). I suspect you believe the same, as the non-RCs here generally say that the reborn do not do such things, otherwise they are not reborn. But as for perfection, I would need to receive much greater amounts of love in my heart in order to keep me from sinning against others as completely as Jesus did. I am not mature in Christ as yet, but an infant in Christ. But thankfully, as a child in Christ (and as a Gentile), I am not under the Law that demands perfection but am instead under the law of Christ, which does not demand perfection. The sheep of Christ does not need a cover. It is a sheep, and this is sufficient for salvation.
Atemi
Well-known member
You're implying that you do not.
Are you now sinless? Or do you keep right on sinning?
The law was not given so that the transgression would decrease but so that it would increase.
The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more. (Rom. 5:20)
Well apparently they are in the RCC. Look at the leaders and their fruit.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
It was meant as a pejorative by the other poster, who apparently has no concept of how "Christianity" works.
Washed
Active member
Do you keep the commandments, yes or no?