Should rape by deception be legal for trans people? To have sex without telling they are trans.

john james

Well-known member
Should rape by deception be legal for trans people? To have sex without telling they are trans.


My friend is a victim of this. The person didn't share they were trans until after wards. My friend stopped all communication with the trans person. And is trying to cope with traumatic experience. They dealing with a high level of anxiety now. They are afraid to have any social interactions with anyone male or female they don't already know because they are scared they can't tell the difference.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Should rape by deception be legal for trans people? To have sex without telling they are trans.


My friend is a victim of this. The person didn't share they were trans until after wards. My friend stopped all communication with the trans person. And is trying to cope with traumatic experience. They dealing with a high level of anxiety now. They are afraid to have any social interactions with anyone male or female they don't already know because they are scared they can't tell the difference.
I watched most of that video and it is remarkable that we live in a world where this discussion is actually germane. This is not quite analogous to the guy who goes into a bar and tells the girl he's a blimp pilot to pick her up. The question of whether or not you belong to a complementary sex is kind of crucial to the whole enterprise. I'm completely agnostic as to whether or not this should be called rape, but it definitely should have a legal sanction against it. At very least there should be access to tort relief, and I'm certainly not against criminal prosecution.
 

john james

Well-known member
If there is criminal prosecution than that might keep some from lying. And it might keep some from trying to hurt trans people when they find out that they had sex with the same sex thinking it was the opposite sex. Also as the person in the video discusses, it might keep gays and lesbians from getting tricked too.

If a trans person does this, the other person doesn't have any recorse for what the person did to them. For now, all they can do is not have anything to do with the trans person.

Some trans people want the right to trick people into having sex with them and there not be any consequences. This is all horrible!!
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
This might be a bit too much for this forum, but I'm wondering how a person could have sex with another person who's trans without realising it. Wouldn't there be pretty obvious things in the private region you are or aren't expecting to find there?
 

Thistle

Well-known member
If there is criminal prosecution than that might keep some from lying. And it might keep some from trying to hurt trans people when they find out that they had sex with the same sex thinking it was the opposite sex. Also as the person in the video discusses, it might keep gays and lesbians from getting tricked too.
That's a really good point. I remember Earl Nightingale once saying "if I honestly didn't exist it would need to be invented as the best way to get ahead in business." I would add to that "if honesty didn't exist it would need to be invented as the best way to get ahead in life."
If a trans person does this, the other person doesn't have any recorse for what the person did to them. For now, all they can do is not have anything to do with the trans person.
Yeah that is real problem.
Some trans people want the right to trick people into having sex with them and there not be any consequences. This is all horrible!!
I think the analogy to rape is a good one. We talk about statutory rape were an older person is taking advantage of a young person whose judgment is not fully formed. That's a pretty good analogy to someone who's misinformed.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
This might be a bit too much for this forum, but I'm wondering how a person could have sex with another person who's trans without realising it.
Or why someone would want to have sex with a complete stranger in the first place. What could possibly go wrong? "Honest, she said she wasn't married!"
Wouldn't there be pretty obvious things in the private region you are or aren't expecting to find there?
The video was talking about postop transsexuals. Still, a personal question why this woman has such a prominent Adams Apple.
 

Backup

Well-known member
Should rape by deception be legal for trans people? To have sex without telling they are trans.


My friend is a victim of this. The person didn't share they were trans until after wards. My friend stopped all communication with the trans person. And is trying to cope with traumatic experience. They dealing with a high level of anxiety now. They are afraid to have any social interactions with anyone male or female they don't already know because they are scared they can't tell the difference.
Silly. This is in no way rape.

Maybe get to know somebody before you hook up.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
How about telling a girl at a bar you are a doctor, when you’re really a fry cook? Is that rape too?
The underlying premise of the entire enterprise revolves around an assumption of sexual complementarieanism. The more analogous situation would be that you want someone to murder someone for you. So you drug the victim and tie them to a target on a shooting range, and the cut out thinks he's innocently shooting a target, when they're actually murdering someone tied up behind it.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Or why someone would want to have sex with a complete stranger in the first place. What could possibly go wrong? "Honest, she said she wasn't married!"

The video was talking about postop transsexuals.
I did not realise that; thank you for pointing it out.
Still, a personal question why this woman has such a prominent Adams Apple.
Which woman? The presenter? I don't think it's prominent at all. I was more disturbed by how her collar was askew. And a prominent adam's apple is a poor way to judge whether a person's biological sex in any case.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
I did not realise that; thank you for pointing it out.

Which woman? The presenter?
No, not the presenter. I'm talking about some presumed "woman" who's looking to be drug home and ravaged at some singles bar.
I don't think it's prominent at all.
Agreed…
I was more disturbed by how her collar was askew. And a prominent adam's apple is a poor way to judge whether a person's biological sex in any case.
I think it's fair to say that they average size of a transsexuals Adams Apple is larger than that of a woman's.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
No, not the presenter. I'm talking about some presumed "woman" who's looking to be drug home and ravaged at some singles bar.
Okay, I didn't understand your remark. You were talking about the discussed but not seen woman. The woman actually seen is, IMO, beautiful. Sure.
Agreed…

I think it's fair to say that they average size of a transsexuals Adams Apple is larger than that of a woman's.
I agree. But the average height of men is greater than that of women. So on meeting a tall woman, would you be suspicious that she's a trans-man? Again, I'd say that's a poor way to judge such a thing.
 

Backup

Well-known member
The underlying premise of the entire enterprise revolves around an assumption of sexual complementarieanism. The more analogous situation would be that you want someone to murder someone for you. So you drug the victim and tie them to a target on a shooting range, and the cut out thinks he's innocently shooting a target, when they're actually murdering someone tied up behind it.
what are you rambling about? You are really moving from rape to murder?

More like a woman claiming to be a virgin, when she’s been with 50 guys.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Okay, I didn't understand your remark. You were talking about the discussed but not seen woman. The woman actually seen is, IMO, beautiful. Sure.

I agree. But the average height of men is greater than that of women. So on meeting a tall woman, would you be suspicious that she's a trans-man? Again, I'd say that's a poor way to judge such a thing.
It's been so many decades since my creative imagination has running that direction I'm not sure I can get myself in that frame of mind anymore.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
what are you rambling about? You are really moving from rape to murder?
You find that odd? You think they're both capital crimes by coincidence per chance? Well no actually, they're both capital crimes because they are similarly serious.
More like a woman claiming to be a virgin, when she’s been with 50 guys.
Claiming to be a virgin and not, does not go to the fundamental principle of sexual complementarianism which is at the root of the entire enterprise.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
ou think they're both capital crimes by coincidence per chance? Well no actually, they're both capital crimes because they are similarly serious.
Rape is not a capital crime anywhere in the US, and the Supreme Court has explicitly said that while they are both serious, they are not "similarly serious".
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Rape by deception doesn't exist.
So you would class none of the following as rape (assuming otherwise consensual sex):
- she says she's on the pill; she's not
- he says he's AIDS-free; he's not
- he says he'll pull out; he doesn't
- he says he'll wear a condom; he puts a nick in it so that it tears
- she says she's his girlfriend; she's not, she's her identical twin

I'm not disagreeing - just asking.
 

Backup

Well-known member
You find that odd? You think they're both capital crimes by coincidence per chance? Well no actually, they're both capital crimes because they are similarly serious.
yeah, but not disclosing to be trans is hardly rape or murder.

Claiming to be a virgin and not, does not go to the fundamental principle of sexual complementarianism which is at the root of the entire enterprise.
fundamental principle of sexual complementarianism

whatever dude

you can’t just make up some random concept and claim it to be the be all and end all of sexuality

Maybe I’m not into redheads and a ginger girl doesn’t tell me she dies her hair. She disrupted the fundamental principle of sexual complementarianism!!!! She’s basically a rapist and a murderer!!
 
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