Should rape by deception be legal for trans people? To have sex without telling they are trans.

Whateverman

Well-known member
I get what you are saying but I still think it's horrible to lie to someone and not admit your gender.
Speaking for myself, deceiving someone into having sex with you is bad in general. There are actual songs written about discovering your lover is the "wrong" gender, and cross dressers have been beaten-up / murdered for not admitting their gender to the person they're trying to pick up.

So you're not alone in thinking that.

Especially if there is a serious relationship developing. If it's casual sex then you get what you get lol and I don't think the trans person is obligated to share in that case.
Like others have said, if you're in a relationship with someone else, I really don't know how you can hide your gender.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
More beating around the bush
I addressed every one of your points seriatim that is hardly beating around the bush.
to avoid yet another error.
Ultimately it is the Constitution that rules which is why we see things like the Dred Scott decision overturned. I have not erred.
You claimed that rape is a capital crime in 18 states.
I doubt those statutes of been struck from the books. If you've got the energy to check those 18 states though, knock yourself out.
It's not. It's not a capital crime anywhere in the US.
That's really a question of statutes not precedent, precedents get over turned all the time.
You were wrong.
Well I don't want to be an endorphin slayer, because I do know how much satisfaction you derive from this comment, but actually . . . no.
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
Speaking for myself, deceiving someone into having sex with you is bad in general. There are actual songs written about discovering your lover is the "wrong" gender, and cross dressers have been beaten-up / murdered for not admitting their gender to the person they're trying to pick up.

So you're not alone in thinking that.


Like others have said, if you're in a relationship with someone else, I really don't know how you can hide your gender.
I would imagine that's probably true.
 

john james

Well-known member
Some lgbt try to make it not important what a person's genitals are. It is not the only important thing to some heterosexual and homosexuals but it is very important. So not telling someone that they are a man when they look like a woman is serious when it comes to sex. Most Heterosexual people do not want to have sex with same sex even if it is post op. Some lgbt supporters try to conflate lying about ones sex and genitals or not revealing ones sex and genitals like it is the same as any other lie some use to deceive someone else into sex. It is not the same and it is apples to oranges.

It is disgusting to know and feel you've had sex with the same sex when you are heterosexual. No matter what the situation is this shouldn't happen. It is also disgusting that someone thinks they have the right not to tell someone what their sex is when they are about to have sex with them. This reveals how some see lgbt behavior as if a man has sex with another man in deception then that is okay even if one is heterosexual because they think homosexuality is okay. So to them it is not that important because to them homosexuality is okay. Like one can mix and match even it is by deception. This type of thinking is horrible.

For those who think that it is not rape, imagine someone some how tricked you into having sex with an animal or someone surgically removed your genitals without you knowing it. And you can't reverse the surgery. This is still not a good comparison but maybe you can emotionally and mentally relate.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
I addressed every one of your points seriatim that is hardly beating around the bush.

Ultimately it is the Constitution that rules which is why we see things like the Dred Scott decision overturned. I have not erred.

I doubt those statutes of been struck from the books. If you've got the energy to check those 18 states though, knock yourself out.

That's really a question of statutes not precedent, precedents get over turned all the time.

Well I don't want to be an endorphin slayer, because I do know how much satisfaction you derive from this comment, but actually . . . no.
More of the same. Beating around the bush to avoid admitting that you are wrong.

You claimed that rape is a capital crime in 18 states. It is not. You were wrong.
 

Furion

Well-known member
I watched most of that video and it is remarkable that we live in a world where this discussion is actually germane. This is not quite analogous to the guy who goes into a bar and tells the girl he's a blimp pilot to pick her up. The question of whether or not you belong to a complementary sex is kind of crucial to the whole enterprise. I'm completely agnostic as to whether or not this should be called rape, but it definitely should have a legal sanction against it. At very least there should be access to tort relief, and I'm certainly not against criminal prosecution.
Blimp pilot. That's hilarious.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Should rape by deception be legal for trans people? To have sex without telling they are trans.


My friend is a victim of this. The person didn't share they were trans until after wards. My friend stopped all communication with the trans person. And is trying to cope with traumatic experience. They dealing with a high level of anxiety now. They are afraid to have any social interactions with anyone male or female they don't already know because they are scared they can't tell the difference.
Rape by deception already is illegal, certainly in the UK. There is a test case of a woman expecting a visit to her bedroom from her boyfriend, who left a ladder leading up to her window. A complete stranger climbed the ladder and had "consensual" sex and was only discovered when he was identified climbing back down the ladder. The girl apparently didn't notice. He was convicted of rape.

It would make an interesting case. There are points pointing both ways.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Rape by deception already is illegal, certainly in the UK. There is a test case of a woman expecting a visit to her bedroom from her boyfriend, who left a ladder leading up to her window. A complete stranger climbed the ladder and had "consensual" sex and was only discovered when he was identified climbing back down the ladder. The girl apparently didn't notice. He was convicted of rape.

It would make an interesting case. There are points pointing both ways.
There certainly are. Consent is a pretty key element in defining whether a crime took place or not.

I have a very difficult time understanding how someone can be deceived into having sex, in the sense that it would constitute rape. Still, I'm not hasty enough to declare such a thing impossible...
 

Temujin

Well-known member
There certainly are. Consent is a pretty key element in defining whether a crime took place or not.

I have a very difficult time understanding how someone can be deceived into having sex, in the sense that it would constitute rape. Still, I'm not hasty enough to declare such a thing impossible...
People can be raped while unconscious or while so intoxicated that they are incapable of informed consent. As in all crimes, distilling the general principles from the particulars is not always straightforward.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
People can be raped while unconscious or while so intoxicated that they are incapable of informed consent. As in all crimes, distilling the general principles from the particulars is not always straightforward.
This gave me a moment's pause (thanks).

Was the UK woman incapable of informed consent?

Maybe it'd be easier if you could find a link, or maybe give me some search criteria I could use on my own (to find details of the case)...
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
More mischaracterization.
No mischaracterisation at all. You made a statement - "You think [rape and murder are] both capital crimes by coincidence per chance". When corrected with the fact that rape is not a capital crime anywhere in the US, you doubled down with "Unless you count the 18 states in which it's a capital crime."

Both statements were false. Rape is not a capital crime anywhere in the US. You were wrong.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
This gave me a moment's pause (thanks).

Was the UK woman incapable of informed consent?
Yes, she was. Whatever consent she gave wasn't informed, as she thought she was consenting to something with a different person. The same as a situation where someone's twin has sex with a person, pretending they are the other twin.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
No mischaracterisation at all. You made a statement - "You think [rape and murder are] both capital crimes by coincidence per chance". When corrected with the fact that rape is not a capital crime anywhere in the US, you doubled down with "Unless you count the 18 states in which it's a capital crime."

Both statements were false. Rape is not a capital crime anywhere in the US. You were wrong.
As far as the state legislatures are concerned they are capital crimes and when the correct precedent is set in the Supreme Court the state law will apply. This by the way is what the constitution says that criminal law is up to the states. Furthermore you are diverting to a minor point from the purpose of the example in the first place. And that is to impress upon the reader of this thread the seriousness of rape.
 
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