Should We Condemn Unbelievers For Their Own Good?

Caroljeen

Well-known member
It irritates me when Christians judge others. I view it as putting ourselves in the place of God and not showing love and kindness. I came across this short article and thought about the title. Is there a way that we can share the gospel, the good news, without condemning others and let the Spirit do his work in convicting of sin? What does speaking the truth in love look like?

Does a discussion forum like CARM have to be toxic, caustic, and downright hateful at times? How does those types of interactions reflect on our Savior? John 13:34-35

"We should focus on what God commands us to do rather than speculating about the extent to which others are or are not doing what God has commanded them to do. When we try to detach ourselves and critically evaluate the progress of others, we act as though we are their masters, and we thereby disobey God (Matt 7:1-5, Rom 14:4).

This also applies to people who haven’t yet surrendered their lives to Christ. They, too, must be unconditionally embraced and invited into the celebration of the cessation of the banishment from communion with God. Indeed, our unconditional, loving embrace is the central way these people are to come to know we are disciples of Christ. They encounter the reality of Jesus Christ as they experience his love through us (Jn 17:20-26). Though they cannot see God, they experience his love as it is manifested through us (1 Jn 4:12). Our outrageous love becomes a puzzle to them for which Jesus Christ is the only adequate explanation."

 
Not everyone that post on a Christian Message Board is a Christian for example is a liar named John Caldwell that goes on four or five different boards he lies instigates trouble deletes posts when he's a moderator on a site lies and makes up post about other people that they never said and then when they complain he gets them banned so a liar like that has to be exposed his his lies and malicious ungodly posts have to be exposed and so unfortunately we have to judge a righteous judgment like it says in John 7:24 when is an ungodly hypocrite like John Caldwell around
 
Not everyone that post on a Christian Message Board is a Christian for example is a liar named John Caldwell that goes on four or five different boards he lies instigates trouble deletes posts when he's a moderator on a site lies and makes up post about other people that they never said and then when they complain he gets them banned so a liar like that has to be exposed his his lies and malicious ungodly posts have to be exposed and so unfortunately we have to judge a righteous judgment like it says in John 7:24 when is an ungodly hypocrite like John Caldwell around
So he is like his "father" lying Leighton?
 
It irritates me when Christians judge others. I view it as putting ourselves in the place of God and not showing love and kindness. I came across this short article and thought about the title. Is there a way that we can share the gospel, the good news, without condemning others and let the Spirit do his work in convicting of sin? What does speaking the truth in love look like?

Does a discussion forum like CARM have to be toxic, caustic, and downright hateful at times? How does those types of interactions reflect on our Savior? John 13:34-35

"We should focus on what God commands us to do rather than speculating about the extent to which others are or are not doing what God has commanded them to do. When we try to detach ourselves and critically evaluate the progress of others, we act as though we are their masters, and we thereby disobey God (Matt 7:1-5, Rom 14:4).

This also applies to people who haven’t yet surrendered their lives to Christ. They, too, must be unconditionally embraced and invited into the celebration of the cessation of the banishment from communion with God. Indeed, our unconditional, loving embrace is the central way these people are to come to know we are disciples of Christ. They encounter the reality of Jesus Christ as they experience his love through us (Jn 17:20-26). Though they cannot see God, they experience his love as it is manifested through us (1 Jn 4:12). Our outrageous love becomes a puzzle to them for which Jesus Christ is the only adequate explanation."

I think you bring up some valid concerns. We should be speaking truth into the lives of the lost and that is the truth of the gospel and why they should receive it. The biggest hurdle is how do we do that without seeming to be judgmental. The great commission is clear, we are to take the gospel into the whole of the world (Matthew 28:16-20). This is one of the reasons I love the simplicity of the gospel message. Unfortunately, those who believe the teaching of the cross is foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18), as we see quite often not only here but when we interact with the world at large, we are cast in the visage of "hate-mongers", "intolerant bigots", etc. So, what do we do? When someone states their lifestyle choice isn't a sin are we to accept that or are we to speak out, in love, the truth of God's word? When someone curses God's name, are we to stand idly by and ignore such blasphemy or should we ask them to not blaspheme the name of God? We are told to be ready to give a reason for our faith, in and out of season, why we are followers of the way. So, I don't know Caroljeen, how to do this in a manner that is acceptable to all because the gospel is offensive. To put it bluntly. I like where you're going with this.
 
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Not everyone that post on a Christian Message Board is a Christian for example is a liar named John Caldwell that goes on four or five different boards he lies instigates trouble deletes posts when he's a moderator on a site lies and makes up post about other people that they never said and then when they complain he gets them banned so a liar like that has to be exposed his his lies and malicious ungodly posts have to be exposed and so unfortunately we have to judge a righteous judgment like it says in John 7:24 when is an ungodly hypocrite like John Caldwell around
Is that the only to respond to his antics? Is that a first approach tactic that Jesus would approve of?
 
How does those types of interactions reflect on our Savior? John 13:34-35
There are many narcissists here who engage in all kinds of heresies. By their very nature, discussion forums invite the self-opinionated and the unprincipled and those with inflated egos. Although it makes for interesting discussions, the downside is that unbalanced, untrammelled and sometimes deranged egocentricity is often witnessed at the expense of Christ's honor.
 
It irritates me when Christians judge others. I view it as putting ourselves in the place of God and not showing love and kindness. I came across this short article and thought about the title. Is there a way that we can share the gospel, the good news, without condemning others and let the Spirit do his work in convicting of sin? What does speaking the truth in love look like?

Does a discussion forum like CARM have to be toxic, caustic, and downright hateful at times? How does those types of interactions reflect on our Savior? John 13:34-35

"We should focus on what God commands us to do rather than speculating about the extent to which others are or are not doing what God has commanded them to do. When we try to detach ourselves and critically evaluate the progress of others, we act as though we are their masters, and we thereby disobey God (Matt 7:1-5, Rom 14:4).

This also applies to people who haven’t yet surrendered their lives to Christ. They, too, must be unconditionally embraced and invited into the celebration of the cessation of the banishment from communion with God. Indeed, our unconditional, loving embrace is the central way these people are to come to know we are disciples of Christ. They encounter the reality of Jesus Christ as they experience his love through us (Jn 17:20-26). Though they cannot see God, they experience his love as it is manifested through us (1 Jn 4:12). Our outrageous love becomes a puzzle to them for which Jesus Christ is the only adequate explanation."

Saint Paul said he wouldn't have known he Coveted if it were not for "You shall not Covet". If Saul of Tarsus was the Rich Young Ruler, Jesus told him he lacked one thing; go sell all you have and give it to the Poor. The RYR left sad because he had many possessions. This is the way of the Master Jesus Christ...

I would recommend an approach like this; it couldn't have been a bad way since Jesus used it...
 
It irritates me when Christians judge others.
Hello Caroljeen, we are never to be judgmental/condemning towards others .. e.g. Matthew 7:12 (see it below in my signature line), but we are certainly told to be discerning of other's situations/needs for quite a number of reasons (which always involves their good). As believers, this is especially true of spiritual/eternal matters, of course, but our seeing to the physical needs of others may be required as well, first in some cases.

Much to Cain's chagrin, we are all called to be our "brother's keeper" .. e.g. Galatians 6:9-10 (which requires judging/discerning with spiritual eyes & ears on our part at times via the Holy Spirit) .. e.g. John 7:24.

I view it as putting ourselves in the place of God and not showing love and kindness.
Again, this should never be the case for a Christian, as acting that way towards others is sinful on our parts/is hardly what the Bible tells us to do as His witnesses/evangelists/apologists .. e.g. Matthew 7:12; 1 Peter 3:15.

I came across this short article and thought about the title. Is there a way that we can share the gospel, the good news, without condemning others and let the Spirit do his work in convicting of sin?
That is a GREAT question, IMHO :)

Asking 'leading questions' is a practical way to help an unbeliever (or one who is CINO) to do this, as it will allow them come to their own conclusions about the truth, the faith and God, and hopefully help them see their very real and immediate need for Him to be their Savior. I believe this (asking leading questions of others to help them reach their own conclusions, instead of just spoon-feeding them the facts) is referred to as the Socratic method of teaching.

If someone is unsure about how to begin to witness to others in this manner, there is perhaps no better book than this one to help explain how to begin.


Another thing (that is discussed in this book, if memory serves) is to take the "targets" off the backs of unbelievers by considering ourselves as "planters of seeds", rather than "reapers/harvesters of a crop". IOW, make getting the Gospel message out there for people to hear the goal (even if it's only a small part of it), rather than approaching others with the intent of leading them all the way to saving faith in Christ. If the latter happens, GREAT, and if it does not, then GREAT as well .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:6-9. That's not to say that leading someone all the way to Christ should not be in the back of our minds, but we need to remember that we're not the ones who save people, only the Holy Spirit can do that (and that in His perfect timing :)).

Remember too that we are called to be God's "witnesses" to those who are still in this world .. e.g. Acts 1:8, witnesses (first and foremost) to the truth about God that we have come to know personally and experientially, and what being a Christian has meant to us/how it has changed us and our lives for the better (as a means of helping/encouraging others to find their way to Him too, just like we did).

What does speaking the truth in love look like?
Another GREAT/IMPORTANT question (y) (y)

The command from God (Ephesians 4:15) is for us to, "speak the truth" to others (about Him, and about their need for Him as Savior and Lord). The "qualifying phrase" that follows the command, "in love" (which tells us the manner in which God expects us to follow that command) should be understood plainly.

IOW, it should never be used (as many have done) as some sort of code or excuse to justify "hiding the truth" instead (this is typically done in a vain effort to avoid offending and/or hurting the feelings of those we are witnessing to, or because we may be worried that they will not like us if we tell them what the truth really is). As the Apostle Paul said elsewhere,

1 Corinthians 13
6 Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.​

God's "truth" can be hard to hear ( but it is the very thing/the only thing that an unbeliever truly needs to hear and know, even if it is an uncomfortable thing to broach. If someone is ready to hear it, they'll want to hear more. If not, then we lovingly back off and pray for another opportunity to speak to them again at another time (as the Gospel cannot be forced or sold, it needs to be willingly received, yes?).

Finally, as believers, we are to lovingly (with patience/kindness/gentleness/reverence/sensitivity) help others find Him and, thereby, find eternal life, but speak we must, yes .. cf Romans 10:17. How could it EVER be considered a "loving" act to forever withhold such information from the ones who so desperately need to hear it .. just like all of us once did :unsure: (especially if we are doing so to avoid any offense or hurt feelings on the part of the hearer, or persecution aimed at us)

This is an interesting (and I think important) thread, so thank you for broaching it.

Gotta go for now, but I hope to return later (Dv)

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy


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Does a discussion forum like CARM have to be toxic, caustic, and downright hateful at times?
Hello again Caroljeen, it absolutely does not, but "Christian" forums sadly, often end up being that way (as they are filled with people who show up to win arguments and prove themselves "right", in their own eyes anyway ;), rather than coming to places like this to have loving, helpful, productive discussions).

I've found many of the exchanges here at CARM to be particularly unloving at times (more so of late than the other two Christian boards that I still post on), but we can (and should) do something about that personally, by never acting like that ourselves. I have found over the years (out here in online Christendom) that believers acting as we are supposed to/commanded to act, can be a very contagious thing to other believers (since most of us see what you are describing and wish/pray that it was different) :)

How does those types of interactions reflect on our Savior? John 13:34-35
Poorly! (sadly, it seems clear that some believe your posited passage above actually says that, "they will know that we are Christians by the rightness of our theology, and extreme devotion to our presuppositional beliefs" instead :().

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
 
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It irritates me when Christians judge others. I view it as putting ourselves in the place of God and not showing love and kindness. I came across this short article and thought about the title. Is there a way that we can share the gospel, the good news, without condemning others and let the Spirit do his work in convicting of sin? What does speaking the truth in love look like?

Does a discussion forum like CARM have to be toxic, caustic, and downright hateful at times? How does those types of interactions reflect on our Savior? John 13:34-35

"We should focus on what God commands us to do rather than speculating about the extent to which others are or are not doing what God has commanded them to do. When we try to detach ourselves and critically evaluate the progress of others, we act as though we are their masters, and we thereby disobey God (Matt 7:1-5, Rom 14:4).

This also applies to people who haven’t yet surrendered their lives to Christ. They, too, must be unconditionally embraced and invited into the celebration of the cessation of the banishment from communion with God. Indeed, our unconditional, loving embrace is the central way these people are to come to know we are disciples of Christ. They encounter the reality of Jesus Christ as they experience his love through us (Jn 17:20-26). Though they cannot see God, they experience his love as it is manifested through us (1 Jn 4:12). Our outrageous love becomes a puzzle to them for which Jesus Christ is the only adequate explanation."



Unbelievers? We only can leave then with, or without, excuse for their rejection of Christ.

Those who will to? Will reject no matter what they are told.

Just try to make sure you do not leave them with excuse for rejecting.

The Spirit must lead what is to be spoken. Do not get a system and script to follow.

“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me;
but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Luke 10:16



grace and peace .......​
 
Hello Caroljeen, we are never to be judgmental/condemning towards others .. e.g. Matthew 7:12 (see it below in my signature line), but we are certainly told to be discerning of other's situations/needs for quite a number of reasons (which always involves their good). As believers, this is especially true of spiritual/eternal matters, of course, but our seeing to the physical needs of others may be required as well, first in some cases.

Much to Cain's chagrin, we are all called to be our "brother's keeper" .. e.g. Galatians 6:9-10 (which requires judging/discerning with spiritual eyes & ears on our part at times via the Holy Spirit) .. e.g. John 7:24.


Again, this should never be the case for a Christian, as acting that way towards others is sinful on our parts/is hardly what the Bible tells us to do as His witnesses/evangelists/apologists .. e.g. Matthew 7:12; 1 Peter 3:15.


That is a GREAT question, IMHO :)

Asking 'leading questions' is a practical way to help an unbeliever (or one who is CINO) to do this, as it will allow them come to their own conclusions about the truth, the faith and God, and hopefully help them see their very real and immediate need for Him to be their Savior. I believe this (asking leading questions of others to help them reach their own conclusions, instead of just spoon-feeding them the facts) is referred to as the Socratic method of teaching.

If someone is unsure about how to begin to witness to others in this manner, there is perhaps no better book than this one to help explain how to begin.


Another thing (that is discussed in this book, if memory serves) is to take the "targets" off the backs of unbelievers by considering ourselves as "planters of seeds", rather than "reapers/harvesters of a crop". IOW, make getting the Gospel message out there for people to hear the goal (even if it's only a small part of it), rather than approaching others with the intent of leading them all the way to saving faith in Christ. If the latter happens, GREAT, and if it does not, then GREAT as well .. e.g. 1 Corinthians 3:6-9. That's not to say that leading someone all the way to Christ should not be in the back of our minds, but we need to remember that we're not the ones who save people, only the Holy Spirit can do that (and that in His perfect timing :)).

Remember too that we are called to be God's "witnesses" to those who are still in this world .. e.g. Acts 1:8, witnesses (first and foremost) to the truth about God that we have come to know personally and experientially, and what being a Christian has meant to us/how it has changed us and our lives for the better (as a means of helping/encouraging others to find their way to Him too, just like we did).


Another GREAT/IMPORTANT question (y) (y)

The command from God (Ephesians 4:15) is for us to, "speak the truth" to others (about Him, and about their need for Him as Savior and Lord). The "qualifying phrase" that follows the command, "in love" (which tells us the manner in which God expects us to follow that command) should be understood plainly.

IOW, it should never be used (as many have done) as some sort of code or excuse to justify "hiding the truth" instead (this is typically done in a vain effort to avoid offending and/or hurting the feelings of those we are witnessing to, or because we may be worried that they will not like us if we tell them what the truth really is). As the Apostle Paul said elsewhere,

1 Corinthians 13
6 Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth.​

God's "truth" can be hard to hear ( but it is the very thing/the only thing that an unbeliever truly needs to hear and know, even if it is an uncomfortable thing to broach. If someone is ready to hear it, they'll want to hear more. If not, then we lovingly back off and pray for another opportunity to speak to them again at another time (as the Gospel cannot be forced or sold, it needs to be willingly received, yes?).

Finally, as believers, we are to lovingly (with patience/kindness/gentleness/reverence/sensitivity) help others find Him and, thereby, find eternal life, but speak we must, yes .. cf Romans 10:17. How could it EVER be considered a "loving" act to forever withhold such information from the ones who so desperately need to hear it .. just like all of us once did :unsure: (especially if we are doing so to avoid any offense or hurt feelings on the part of the hearer, or persecution aimed at us)

This is an interesting (and I think important) thread, so thank you for broaching it.

Gotta go for now, but I hope to return later (Dv)

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy


Thank you for your response. I enjoyed reading it.
 
Hello again Caroljeen, it absolutely does not, but "Christian" forums sadly, often end up being that way (as they are filled with people who show up to win arguments and prove themselves "right", in their own eyes anyway ;), rather than coming to places like this to have loving, helpful, productive discussions).

I've found many of the exchanges here at CARM to be particularly unloving at times (more so of late than the other two Christian boards that I still post on), but we can (and should) do something about that personally, by never acting like that ourselves. I have found over the years (out here in online Christendom) that believers acting as we are supposed to/commanded to act, can be a very contagious thing to other believers (since most of us see what you are describing and wish/pray that it was different) :)


Poorly! (sadly, it seems clear that some believe your posited passage above actually says that, "they will know that we are Christians by the rightness of our theology, and extreme devotion to our presuppositional beliefs" instead :().

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
I posted this thread to vent. I didn't care if anyone responded to it, but I'm glad you did. :)
 
It irritates me when Christians judge others. I view it as putting ourselves in the place of God and not showing love and kindness. I came across this short article and thought about the title. Is there a way that we can share the gospel, the good news, without condemning others and let the Spirit do his work in convicting of sin? What does speaking the truth in love look like?

Does a discussion forum like CARM have to be toxic, caustic, and downright hateful at times? How does those types of interactions reflect on our Savior? John 13:34-35

"We should focus on what God commands us to do rather than speculating about the extent to which others are or are not doing what God has commanded them to do. When we try to detach ourselves and critically evaluate the progress of others, we act as though we are their masters, and we thereby disobey God (Matt 7:1-5, Rom 14:4).

This also applies to people who haven’t yet surrendered their lives to Christ. They, too, must be unconditionally embraced and invited into the celebration of the cessation of the banishment from communion with God. Indeed, our unconditional, loving embrace is the central way these people are to come to know we are disciples of Christ. They encounter the reality of Jesus Christ as they experience his love through us (Jn 17:20-26). Though they cannot see God, they experience his love as it is manifested through us (1 Jn 4:12). Our outrageous love becomes a puzzle to them for which Jesus Christ is the only adequate explanation."

God will use arrogant Christians for testing believers who truly desire to grow in grace and truth.

If it can happen? We can learn to better identify with the sufferings of Christ.

As per Romans 8:28. God uses it for the good of those who walk in the Spirit and have an open mind desiring in the love for a better understanding God's Word.

grace and peace ........
 
Thank you for your response. I enjoyed reading it.
I posted this thread to vent. I didn't care if anyone responded to it, but I'm glad you did. :)
Thank you for letting me know :) I'm glad that you enjoyed it, but I should apologize for the length (it was clearly too long).

I'm sorry that you felt that you needed to post just to vent. I understand though, as it often gets pretty ugly out here in online Christendom. In fact, I used to be a mod on a different Christian forum, so I got to deal with the worst of it directly. My signature line Scripture collection below comes from that time, because those were the verses that I used most often to remind our Christian members (who had gotten out of line) what a Christian is supposed to act like.

Now they reside down there as a reminder for me, and for anyone else who'd like to be reminded as well.

@GeneZ is correct, there's a positive to the ugliness that we experience out here, especially from those who we'd never suspect, IOW, from those who claim to be our brothers and sisters in Christ. How we respond to them (and to anyone else who is posting on the gnarly side) can help us know where our walk is at before the Lord. It's easy to be a Matthew 7:12 (see below) Christian when everyone is being patient, kind and pleasant towards us, yes?

So, go be the Christian that the Lord has called you to be (in spite of how others are treating or have treated you) and I think that you'll end up helping the rest of us come along for the ride :) (y) (y)

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - you definitely nailed my biggest concern with all of this, and that is what we Christians look like to a world of unbelievers who are always watching us, and you probably wouldn't believe how many there are on a place like this one that do so (board usage information was something else that I received as a mod, just FYI).
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