Should Women Be Ordained Into the Roman Catholic Priesthood?

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
What you seem not to comprehend is we know you don't care what we think. This means it is you who does not want to discuss things, you just think you are right. It is your choice to make. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. So that response from you shows, it is you have no wish to discuss matters at all, you are just right in your mind.

From most responses of RC posters it is the case that they think they have all the answers and we are not allowed to disagree with their views because they belong to the institution that makes false claims that it is the one true church.
So even when I tell you what you want to hear, you aren't happy.

What will make you happy?
 

balshan

Well-known member
So even when I tell you what you want to hear, you aren't happy.

What will make you happy?
I am not a child. I don't need an answer to make me happy. Your responses do not effect my state of being. I have Jesus in my life and He makes me happy.

You seem to want us to give you answer that make you happy and don't like the facts being posted. Just relax and put your feet up. No one is going to force you to leave your institution, only you can make that decision. I seriously don't understand why you come on and post, you know the responses to the false myths of your institution will receive. I am never going to say praying to Mary is OK etc.
 

mica

Well-known member
What you seem not to comprehend is we know you don't care what we think. This means it is you who does not want to discuss things, you just think you are right. It is your choice to make. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. So that response from you shows, it is you have no wish to discuss matters at all, you are just right in your mind.

From most responses of RC posters it is the case that they think they have all the answers and we are not allowed to disagree with their views because they belong to the institution that makes false claims that it is the one true church.
yes, it's the catholics. Many can't be bothered to answer questions - most often it's probably because they don't know the answers. they don't know enough scripture to know them, so they go on a rant to 2 step away from the post they're replying to.

For catholics it's all about what the RCC says, not what God says.

but they do keep busy with those catholic filler words. Maybe they're a source of indulgences (per word)?
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
yes, it's the catholics. Many can't be bothered to answer questions - most often it's probably because they don't know the answers. they don't know enough scripture to know them, so they go on a rant to 2 step away from the post they're replying to.

For catholics it's all about what the RCC says, not what God says.

but they do keep busy with those catholic filler words. Maybe they're a source of indulgences (per word)?
Well guess what? If I do not know something I will admit it.

I believe I am intelligent and knowledgeable about the Catholic Faith. The Catholic Faith, however is 2021 years old. I can't possibly know everything. Protestants will always be able to find some obscure quote from some obscure pope, saint or theologian and play "Got ya!." But this isn't Jeopardy and I am not a trivia guy--nor have I ever claimed to be.

But there is a difference in admitting I do not know something--and not responding to a question when that question has been answered time and again on these boards.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
You seem to want us to give you answer that make you happy and don't like the facts being posted. Just relax and put your feet up. No one is going to force you to leave your institution, only you can make that decision.

Really? Well, I am relaxed now--because I thought you were going to come storm trooping on into my house and put a gun to my head and say "My friend Mr. Colt and his six friends say you leave Catholicism now or else." Of course if you did do that, by God's Grace I would tell you right where you, your friend Mr. Colt and his six friends could go. By God's Grace I would willingly die for the Catholic Faith.

I seriously don't understand why you come on and post, you know the responses to the false myths of your institution will receive. I am never going to say praying to Mary is OK etc.

So don't pray to Mary then. If you do not believe praying to Mary is scriptural, don't pray to her. I do not pray to Mary myself much, but I do not believe there is anything wrong with a devotion to Mary.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Really? Well, I am relaxed now--because I thought you were going to come storm trooping on into my house and put a gun to my head and say "My friend Mr. Colt and his six friends say you leave Catholicism now or else." Of course if you did do that, by God's Grace I would tell you right where you, your friend Mr. Colt and his six friends could go. By God's Grace I would willingly die for the Catholic Faith.



So don't pray to Mary then. If you do not believe praying to Mary is scriptural, don't pray to her. I do not pray to Mary myself much, but I do not believe there is anything wrong with a devotion to Mary.
It is okay I don't own a gun, my brother does he has a small property. So you are safe. I wouldn't die for a denomination/sect/institution and I pray that I would have that sort of courage for Jesus. I am sure He gives you what you need if that persecution arises. I know my brothers and sisters in Indonesia have that courage.

So don't get upset when I call it for what it is a false practice. I haven't prayed to Mary since leaving the RCC and reading the bible.
 

mica

Well-known member
Really? Well, I am relaxed now--because I thought you were going to come storm trooping on into my house and put a gun to my head and say "My friend Mr. Colt and his six friends say you leave Catholicism now or else." Of course if you did do that, by God's Grace I would tell you right where you, your friend Mr. Colt and his six friends could go. By God's Grace I would willingly die for the Catholic Faith.
.,..
that's an old tactic of the RCC to FORCE people to agree with its FALSE beliefs.

do you find in scripture where Jesus or an apostle did such a thing? no, but the RCC sure did yrs back, didn't it? That's what your 'church' did many years ago.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The poster said White would be the first to admit that debates are not what saves, but the preaching of the Gospel.

That being the case, why debate? Debates aren't about the Gospel. Debates are about who is the better debater.

No doubt White is extremely good at debates; that doesn't make him right, however. It just makes him good at debates.
Where did I write that White's debates themselves save anyone?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Actually, it IS an answer. You see, you Sola Scriptura types presume that all matters of Christian life, Faith, worship, doctrine, etc, must be formally and explicitly taught by the pages of Scripture in order for you to believe them. Catholics do not operate out of this assumption.

We believe that all matters of doctrine should be found within the Bible. Some practices are found in the Bible, some not. I think practices are up to us, so long as they don't contradict Scripture. Some of your church's practices DO.
This is not to deny the authority of Scripture or its uniqueness. It is not to deny that doctrine must be founded upon Scripture, that there should be indications of the doctrine or teaching in Scripture. It is to say that for Catholics, the teaching of the Church is sufficient evidence that a doctrine or doctrines is Scriptural. Catholics do not sit in judgement of the Church, they do not sit in judgment of their teachers.

They should be discerning towards their teachers. Jesus warned us about false teachers and false prophets coming in His name. Are we to lock our God-given discernment in a box and throw away the key, and blindly follow any and every leader in the church--no matter what he teaches?
When the teacher says "We believe, define and profess thus and so, and here is the Scriptural indication" We accept that.

The Bereans didn't blindly accept what Paul told them, but "searched the Scriptures daily" to see if what they were being taught was true-and they were called noble for doing so. They used discernment, testing Paul's teachings with Scripture. Catholics don't do that. They just blindly follow their leaders.

Should the entire early church have followed Peter's example and gone into hypocrisy over the Gentiles, when men came from James in Jerusalem? Should the members of the church have blindly followed Peter? Was it wrong for Paul to rebuke him?
Put another way: both Catholics and Protestants believe that doctrine must be indicated in the Scriptures/proven from the Scriptures. The difference is that Catholics do not judge for themselves what constitutes sufficient proof whereas Protestants do. We accept that the Church has the authority to judge between competing views and between the evidence. Protestants do not.

Yeah, Catholics let their Magisterium judge everything for them, so they can get out of the responsibility for deciding for themselves. Much easier that way. Absolves Catholics of any responsibility in learning the truth.
Take the doctrine of the Assumption as an example. Obviously there are two sides to the issue: those who claim Scripture indicates the doctrine in Revelation 12 and those who claim Revelation 12 does not indicate the doctrine. The Church is like a court in that it judges between the competing views and the Scriptural evidence for and against and then issues a decision. In the case of the Assumption, the Church issued a definitive decision on the evidence and the views in favor of the Assumption and in favor of the Scriptural indications of the doctrine. Catholics accept that the Church has the authority to do this. And to people like me, this is just common sense.

The only reason you church believes the woman in Revelation 12 is Mary is because your church believes that Mary was crowned Queen of Heaven, so ergo, the woman with the crown of 12 stars in Revelation 12 must be Mary, in Catholic thinking--but they are wrong.

Revelation 12--
12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2 and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

The Red Dragon, Satan​

3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

The Male Child, Christ​

5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

Look at the first bolded stuff. IF this woman is Mary, then she suffered pain in childbirth. Genesis 3 has God telling Eve she would bring forth children in pain (paraphrasing). Painful childbirths are the direct result of sin. So, ergo, if this woman in Rev. 12 is Mary, she must not have been the non-sinner Catholics believe her to be, because she suffered pain in giving birth to Jesus.

The 12 stars represent first, the 12 tribes of Israel, the "church" in the OT, and also the 12 Apostles, representing the NT church. In Revelation, those who overcome and die in faith in Jesus Christ are given the "crown of life" and the 12 from the OT and 12 from the NT cast their golden crowns before the throne of Christ Jesus. So, the crown of stars the woman in Rev. 12 represents the rewards of those in heaven, from both the OT and NT, for their faith in God and His promises unto death.

Here are the 5 crowns for believers mentioned in the NT:

Question: "What are the five heavenly crowns that believers can receive in Heaven?"

Answer:
There are five heavenly crowns mentioned in the New Testament that will be awarded to believers. They are the imperishable crown, the crown of rejoicing, the crown of righteousness, the crown of glory, and the crown of life.

What are the five heavenly crowns that believers can receive in Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

The woman in this is, take note, a VISION. The woman is first the nation of Israel, giving "birth" to the Messiah--and Israel had a long and painful history that led up to Jesus' birth. Satan tried to destroy Israel and also Jesus. But he did not succeed. Mary is possibly meant in vs. 4B. But only there. Vs. six takes place AFTER Jesus' birth, death, and ascension into heaven, so the woman here could not be Mary. Instead, the woman who fled into the wilderness is the Church. I studied Revelation at mid-week Bible class, and have forgotten what the rest of vs. 6 is symbolic of. But this woman in Revelation is not Mary, nor is it Mary in heaven, being crowned Queen of heaven. That is your church practicing eisegesis, instead of exegesis, and reading its own beliefs into these verses.
As Freud once said: sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Don't overthink this. It was a joke. Period.

Sheesh! Get a sense of humor!
I have a sense of humor--I just did not think your joke was funny. I only laugh at funny stuff.
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
Really? Well, I am relaxed now--because I thought you were going to come storm trooping on into my house and put a gun to my head and say "My friend Mr. Colt and his six friends say you leave Catholicism now or else." Of course if you did do that, by God's Grace I would tell you right where you, your friend Mr. Colt and his six friends could go. By God's Grace I would willingly die for the Catholic Faith.

For the "Catholic faith" you would die...in other words, your church body, not for Christ...?
So don't pray to Mary then. If you do not believe praying to Mary is scriptural, don't pray to her. I do not pray to Mary myself much, but I do not believe there is anything wrong with a devotion to Mary.
Your last line is very telling. If you want to know what is wrong with devotion to Mary, read diLiguouri's book THE GLORIES OF MARY and see what devotion to Mary can lead to.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Well guess what? If I do not know something I will admit it.

I believe I am intelligent and knowledgeable about the Catholic Faith. The Catholic Faith, however is 2021 years old.

No it isn't. Proper counting indicates that Jesus was actually born a few years BC, not Zero AD. Also, the church didn't become truly Roman Catholic and ruled from Rome until after the 6th century. So no, your church is hardly 2021 years old.
I can't possibly know everything. Protestants will always be able to find some obscure quote from some obscure pope, saint or theologian and play "Got ya!." But this isn't Jeopardy and I am not a trivia guy--nor have I ever claimed to be.

Being a trivia guy isn't important. But being a Bible-believing, blood washed child of God by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord ONLY--IS.
But there is a difference in admitting I do not know something--and not responding to a question when that question has been answered time and again on these boards.
Except some questions have never been directly answered, like, where can we find many of the tenets of the RCC in the bible? Instead of being honest and answering "nowhere" the Catholic will simply say "We are not sola scriptura." Which is a copout, and NOT a direct answer.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Where did I write that White's debates themselves save anyone?
I didn't either! I wrote,
"However, the impression I got from the debates was that afterward, the Protestants were still Protestant, and the Catholics still Catholic."

Or, to make it PLAIN, while the debates were interesting and informative, I do not believe they changed anyone's opinion. (Just my opinion, insofar as that I didn't do any exit polls. :))
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I didn't either! I wrote,
"However, the impression I got from the debates was that afterward, the Protestants were still Protestant, and the Catholics still Catholic."

Or, to make it PLAIN, while the debates were interesting and informative, I do not believe they changed anyone's opinion. (Just my opinion, insofar as that I didn't do any exit polls. :))
Yes, but my point is, in a debate, White could present the true Gospel, and it is the Gospel that teaches us about Jesus and salvation.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Yes, but my point is, in a debate, White could present the true Gospel, and it is the Gospel that teaches us about Jesus and salvation.
He could have, but since the debates were on subjects such as Marian Dogma or the Deuterocanonicals, the moderator would probably stepped in. Mr. White's debates are quite formal in format.
:)
 

leonard03782

Well-known member
He could have, but since the debates were on subjects such as Marian Dogma or the Deuterocanonicals, the moderator would probably stepped in. Mr. White's debates are quite formal in format.
:)
So........, are you saying that there are biblical subjects in which the gospel cannot be brought up?
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
So........, are you saying that there are biblical subjects in which the gospel cannot be brought up?
Actually, I don't know Mr. White's thought processes. I'm guessing as to why he did not mention the gospel in his debates. If you're really interested, try contacting him at aomin-dot-org.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
He could have, but since the debates were on subjects such as Marian Dogma or the Deuterocanonicals, the moderator would probably stepped in. Mr. White's debates are quite formal in format.
:)
Oh, I see. As I said, I have never listened to his debates, just read some stuff on his website, which is excellent.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
No it isn't. Proper counting indicates that Jesus was actually born a few years BC, not Zero AD. Also, the church didn't become truly Roman Catholic and ruled from Rome until after the 6th century. So no, your church is hardly 2021 years old.

The sixth century was it? That is when the Church became Catholic? This is a new one. Usually fundamentalists claim the Church became Catholic with Constantine and that Constantine founded the Church. All of this is nonsense of course, it is just that I never heard the claim that the Church became Catholic in the sixth century.

What happened, what event in the sixth century that you can point to to make the Church Catholic? What was the Church prior to the sixth century? Protestant? Who founded or otherwise made the Church Catholic in the sixth century?
Being a trivia guy isn't important. But being a Bible-believing, blood washed child of God by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord ONLY--IS.

Well I am a Bible believing blood washed child of God by Grace through Faith.
Except some questions have never been directly answered, like, where can we find many of the tenets of the RCC in the bible? Instead of being honest and answering "nowhere" the Catholic will simply say "We are not sola scriptura." Which is a copout, and NOT a direct answer.

How is it not a direct answer? We are not Sola Scriptura. Given this, why do you ask us where the Bible teaches Catholic doctrine X or Y?

I told you and you continue not to get it: Catholics aren't Sola Scriptura. YOU are the one that is Sola Scriptura. Why are you projecting YOUR standards of evidence on to a Church that has plainly admitted that while Scripture is ONE standard of evidence for a believer, it is not the ONLY standard?

So how about this: I will grant there is absolutely nothing about a pope, Mary, the saints, Purgatory, etc, in the Bible. Now my question: SO WHAT? Why does there have to be anything about these doctrines in the Bible? Why is the testimony of the Church not evidence that these doctrines were taught by the Apostles and revealed by God?
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
Yes, but my point is, in a debate, White could present the true Gospel, and it is the Gospel that teaches us about Jesus and salvation.
Then it would not be a debate, but a church service. They would have to market the event "Come hear renowned Reformed Baptist pastor preach the Gospel" or something like that.
 
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