Should Women Be Ordained Into the Roman Catholic Priesthood?

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
so, now you're saying that catholics don't need to submit to the pope to be saved. Then why does the ccc say that it is necessary?

Why are sacraments required?

How many things are there related to justification (and salvation?)?

What's the difference between justification and salvation?
Sigh..
It is impossible to have a discussion with you people. You aren't actually interested in knowing the answers to the questions you ask. All you are interested in is being right; that is confirming your assumptions about Catholicism.
reading what is actually posted and answering questions would help in that if catholics really wanted a discussion. catholics don't want His truth, they just want to convince others that the RCC teaches what scripture teaches, except they have no scripture to support those catholic teachings. That's why catholics change the subject, deflect or reply with nonsense.

who says what we believe about catholicism are assumptions? you? you do nothing to prove what the RCC teaches is right according to scripture.

Is the requirement to submit to the pope an assumption or is it written in the CCC ? Is that a question you can answer or will you respond with a multitude of more 2 steps?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Sigh..

It is impossible to have a discussion with you people. You aren't actually interested in knowing the answers to the questions you ask. All you are interested in is being right; that is confirming your assumptions about Catholicism.
Really it is a fact you aren't actually interested in knowing where your answers have flaws it is NOT about being right it is about the truth. You don't want to know the truth, you just want your presumptions about Non Catholics to be confirmed and you don't like being shown that you are wrong in your presumptions. You are only interested in being right and we cannot be in agreement with false claims and teachings.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Well, ,Romish, are you going to prove to me that Catholic beliefs are Scriptural? I suggested that you start by showing me Indulgences in the Bible. Should be simple...right?
I found some scriptures on indulgence and they show the truth about indulgences:

Matt 23:25

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.

1 Tim 5:6

But she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives

1 Tim 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

These show the indulgences came from the love of money in some cases, the love of self indulgence and how it reveals the outside of the RCC being more important than the inside.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I found some scriptures on indulgence and they show the truth about indulgences:

Matt 23:25

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.

1 Tim 5:6

But she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives

1 Tim 6:10

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

These show the indulgences came from the love of money in some cases, the love of self indulgence and how it reveals the outside of the RCC being more important than the inside.
Thanks, balshan. Somehow I don't think these verses prove Catholic "indulgences." :p But the poster made the claim that Catholic teachings are Scriptural and indulgences are a Catholic teaching, so, ergo, they should be in the Bible....right?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Thanks, balshan. Somehow I don't think these verses prove Catholic "indulgences." :p But the poster made the claim that Catholic teachings are Scriptural and indulgences are a Catholic teaching, so, ergo, they should be in the Bible....right?
I wasn't trying to prove Roman Catholic indulgences at all. They are not biblical and that was the point I was trying to make. In fact, they are selfish and therefore contradict scripture. RCs don't need things to be in the bible at all, they are justified by traditions or the pope and his cronies are infallible etc.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
I wasn't trying to prove Roman Catholic indulgences at all. They are not biblical and that was the point I was trying to make. In fact, they are selfish and therefore contradict scripture.
Wasn't that what Marty L. wanted to discuss with his 95 Theses? :)

And Leo X wanted to keep indulging himself, according to Wikipedia. (Although they didn't put it quite like that!)

--Rich
 

balshan

Well-known member
Wasn't that what Marty L. wanted to discuss with his 95 Theses? :)

And Leo X wanted to keep indulging himself, according to Wikipedia. (Although they didn't put it quite like that!)

--Rich
I am sure it probably was but I have to admit I have never read them, my bag. Maybe I should. Of course they don't like to see what the indulgences really are.

I mean the very word says it all. Let us look at its real meaning:

an occasion when you allow someone or yourself to have something enjoyable, especially more than is good for you:
Chocolate is my only indulgence.
In other words self indulgence

an occasion when you allow or do not mind someone's failure or bad behaviour. from Cambridge dictionary.

And of course there is the RC indulgences, same thing really.
 
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RayneBeau

Well-known member
Wasn't that what Marty L. wanted to discuss with his 95 Theses? :)

And Leo X wanted to keep indulging himself, according to Wikipedia. (Although they didn't put it quite like that!)

--Rich
Yep, it was in that time frame that one of the Vatican's doctrines was at the zenith of it's visible wickedness, which led to the sale of the Roman Catholic Church's 'indulgences,' IOW the forgiveness of sins through the payment of money to the treasury of the Roman Catholic Church.
The Roman Catholic Church knows that the fundamentalist approach is dangerous to the Vatican, because it can liberate lost souls from the bondage of a man-made religion and lead them to the liberty in Jesus Christ through the preaching of the Gospel.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
True. However, the English word priest does come from presbyter--meaning elder, in the Greek...and of course, in the NT elders were married and had children. But the RCC forbids its priests marriage if they are single when they become priests. Which is unbiblical.
Through the guidance of Satan, the RCC had, in the past, successfully projected an image of unmarried priests, as being a sign of godliness. But actually its man-made message is one that demands an allegiance to unbiblical doctrines. The Holy Bible warns us in 2 Tim. 3:5, that we should avoid such men as these, saying "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." And if Roman Catholics knew and were taught the Word of God and obeyed His Word, all this out of control, Satan-spurned pedofilia in the RCC, would never have happened.
 

mica

Well-known member
Through the guidance of Satan, the RCC had, in the past, successfully projected an image of unmarried priests, as being a sign of godliness. But actually its man-made message is one that demands an allegiance to unbiblical doctrines. The Holy Bible warns us in 2 Tim. 3:5, that we should avoid such men as these, saying "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." And if Roman Catholics knew and were taught the Word of God and obeyed His Word, all this out of control, Satan-spurned pedofilia in the RCC, would never have happened.
Amen!
 

Arch Stanton

Well-known member
Maybe I need some milk and cookies, but from the viewpoint of RPO, arch, and Mys. Fid., they have it made in the RCC shade. So they are free to engage in some "Protestant baiting." DW & I have some cats, and it is amusing to see them chase like mad after a red laser dot. Here, there, back and forth...

The problem is that they will to not see this is ALL deadly serious;

--Rich
It is quite serious [your salvation] Rich, and I am relaxed due to obedience in Christ and His Church... yep, pretty simple 😌 :whistle:
 

mica

Well-known member
It is quite serious [your salvation] Rich, and I am relaxed due to obedience in Christ and His Church... yep, pretty simple 😌 :whistle:
yes, salvation is serious business, eternally serious business. It is not by being water baptized or joining a particular group of religious people. It is thru heart belief in Christ and His shed blood on the cross.

catholics are not obedient to Christ - they don't know His word, believe in it or follow it.
 

101G

Well-known member
Addressing the OP,
have not read all the posts, but they should be as in any church that is of the Lord Jesus the Christ. and here's why. Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"
Revelation 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

and in Christ Jesus there is neither male nor females, Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (which is his Body, the Church).

and we are to worship God in "Spirit" and "Truth". now what are the duties of a priest? OT, The responsibility of the priest is is to present the people’s petitions before God. well that door is now open by God himself, our GREAT HIGH PRIEST. but, what about the NT. #1. we're to be "holy" priests. stop right there... "holy", meaning set apart for God.

Now, knowing that, lets get to the ordination of those in the Lord Jesus Church, who are set aside for a LEADERSHIP "ROLE/WORK", hence the title of this topic, "Should Women Be Ordained Into the Roman Catholic Priesthood?" if the Roman Catholics are of God... "YES".

supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

here, in 1 Corinthians 12:28, the Ordaining of the Priest of God in the Pastoral Role for the "Work" of the ministry, which is a gift of God". now there are many Gifts, for many works.....

but as in the topic heading, we're discussing the ordination of Women in the priesthood.

the first evidence of this is in the term used, "SET" which is the Greek word,
G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tiy'-thee-miy) v.
θέω theo (the'-ō) [an alternate in certain tenses]
1. to place.
2. (properly) to lay in a passive or horizontal posture.
{in the widest application, literally and figuratively; differs from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate}
[a prolonged form of a primary theo theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]
KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down
Compare: G2476, G2749

as we can see, SET can be translated as "ORDAIN", as it is used in 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity."

or used in putting someone into the ministry, 1 Timothy 1:12 "And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;" and to be put into the Ministry, one must be called of God. and this calling of God is of his choosing.
as in the apostle Paul case, Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"
here "MAKE" is Choosing, as said it is God's choosing in his calling to the ministry. for a Priest is a minister of God, for the called WORK.

1 Corinthians 9:11 "If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?" 1 Corinthians 9:12 "If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ." 1 Corinthians 9:13 "Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?" 1 Corinthians 9:14 "Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel."

Romans 15:16 "That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost."
here Ministering is the Greek word,
G2418 ἱερουργέω hierourgeo (hiy-er-our-ǰe'-ō) v.
1. to be a worker in a sacred place or a sanctuary (see Romans 15:16).
2. (figuratively, actively) to work in the sanctuary above (for the good news of Redemption through trust in Jesus Anointed; note: above, meaning not focused on boundaries set by the brick and mortar of human hands).
3. (passively) to be a laborer in the sanctuary above, serving (the good news of God).
[from a compound of G2411 and the base of G2041]
KJV: minister

now knowing this, back to 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

so Apostles preach, as do prophets, as well as teachers, for all these "callings" as under the heading of "Pastors", which is a "Gift" of God to do the Work of God.

and just at face value, we know for sure that women was prophets. and 1 Corinthians 12:28 states, "Prophets" are set/ordained in God holy churches. so right there women should be ordained, (those who are called of God).

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
Women "Pastors", preachers and teachers.

Ephesian 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ”.

These verses covers all the ministry Gifts, but are wome included in these ministries? we say YES, and here's why.

speaking of pastors only, we can see clearly from the O.T, as well as the N.T. that Pastors are given, Because in the N.T. God set in his church apostles first, prophets second, teachers, third, but where is the pastor?,1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues”. again where is the pastor?. well a revelation, the pastor is in the scripture we just read. We will address this later, I will use the * for us to remember.

pastors, according to Jeremiah 3:15 are given to feed the flock of God with knowledge and understanding. taking the bible at face value, pastors are given from God own heart, again see Jeremiah 3:15. knowing this, the pastor is a gift of God, (NOT AN OFFICE), but the GIFT, which is the the Holy Spirit, God himself, what is the qualification for this gift?, answer, the BISHOP, but he, God, chooses his ministers for this gift. Understand, according to the bible, there is no office of pastor, nor bishop. see W.E. Vines Dictionary Notes: on “office”. With that said, lets go to the OT to get our understanding of Pastor/Bishop in the NT. starting with Joel 2:28. “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit, saith the LORD”. in verse 28, the word prophesy, means to speak, talk, or to preach, and to teach. most misconception that some men have about prophets are, “they only predict, or foretell future events”, that’s not true. lets break this old taboo by scriptures, even coming from the O.T. we all know the story of Jonah in the belly of, as some say a whale, or other the great fish. we also know that he is a prophet of God. lets see what he did as a prophet, by going to Nineveh the first time. after the Great fish incident, lets see what God charged this prophet with doing?. Jonah 3:1 "And the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the second time, saying, 2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee”. so here we clearly see that the prophet Jonah preached. Prophets then, as well as today not only foretell future events, but also PREACH the word of God in discourse.
lets establish prophets preaching in the N.T. Matthew 11:13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John”. what do this verse mean?. or tell us, prophets of old testament foretold of Christ coming, (see 1 Peter 1:10 & 11). now that he have come, they preach him, because he has now come. John the Baptist who is a prophet, also preached, Mark 1:4 "John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins”. John the Baptist is mostly known for baptizing, but as the scripture plainly states, he preached. so we know prophets "PREACH" in the NT. and, we will see later that they was also teachers. so lets continue our study of Pastors/Bishops, the fulfillment of Joel 2:28 & 29.

one of the Fist prophet preachers, before John the Baptist was a woman name Anna, Luke 2:36 "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;" Luke 2:37 "And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day." Luke 2:38 "And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem."

the term "SPAKE" here is the Gree word,
G2980 λαλέω laleo (lal-ye'-ō) v.
to talk, i.e. speak words.
[a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb]
KJV: preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter

bingo, the KJV can also translate this word "spake" as "PREACH".

this woman Anna a prophetess was PREACHING the Lord Jesus the Christ from his birth..... and get this .... "and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem."

this woman was preaching Jesus the Christ .... TO ALL .... that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. this woman was preaching redemption from the start.... where? in Jerusalem. now lets go back to Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

wher? in Jerusalem. and this woman was as prophets do, "PREACHED" JESUS, the REDEEMER in Jerusalem.

Next time the Woman Bishop.... two of them, Phebe our sister, and Priscilla the wife of Aquila.

till next time.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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101G

Well-known member
1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues”. again where is the pastor?. well a revelation, the pastor is in the scripture we just read. We will address this later, I will use the * for us to remember.
I said, "I will use the * for us to remember" .well here is the Pastor, in 1 Corinthians 12:28. the writter here is the "APOSTLE" Paul, but is he a PASTOR/BISHOP? well lets see. we always say, the apostle Paul, but many do not know that he was A. a Pastor/Bishop, B. Prophet, and C. Teacher.

the very next chapter, 1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
1 Corinthians 13:2 "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

edifying time. not only being a prophet a GIFT of God, "And though I have the gift of prophecy", BINGO, being a prophet is a "GIFT" of God, as well as being a "PASTOR", listen, "and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge". there is the Pastor, "understanding" and "knowledge". now where have we seen this at before? yes, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding." BINGO, there it is, "knowledge and understanding." so the apostle Paul is a Pastor, which is a BISHOP, which destroys the misunderstanding of the qualification of a BISHOP in 1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work." 1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"

well Paul was not married, so how could he be a Pastor/Bishop. well we will straighten that out later, but now to our two BISHOP WOMEN. so lets establish this Gift, and see who all qualify.

the "PASTORAL GIFT", yes, Gift, and it is recorded in 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."
1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"

so we have,

A. the Word of Wisdom. what is this? answer, the bible tells us, Proverbs 2:6 "For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."

so a word of wisdom is UNDERSTANDING, for part B of the scriptures states, "the word of knowledge", so the SAME Spirit gives knowledge and understanding. and what did Jeremiah 3:15 say? "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

there it is the very first Gift on the List is the PASTORAL GIFT". now do only MEN/males get this Gift? lets see, Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither
male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

well, well, well, for there is NO "RESPECTOR" of person in God. and if only men/males, and males only get the Gift, then God is not a God of his own word. meaning he's a "RESSPECTOR" of person, (God forbid, which he is not). as Joel said, "pour out his spirit on ... ALL FLESH, not just male flesh, no, but all flesh. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon
all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:"

as said before, prophesy is also "PREACHING". which the apostle Paul was also a "PREACHER" 1 Timothy 2:7 "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." yes, ordain, is the same word for "set" in 1 Corinthians 12:28.

so from the OT to the NT we see Women in the GIFT of Pastor/Bishop.

now the women Bishop/Pastors...... Romans 16:1 "I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:" Romans 16:2 "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a
succourer of many, and of myself also." Romans 16:3 "Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:"

First our sister Phebe, she is a succourer, so what do this word means? lets see.

G4368 προστάτις prostatis (pro-sta'-tis) n.
a patroness, i.e. assistant.
[feminine of a derivative of G4291]
KJV: succourer

my source for this definition is the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
note: it said, [feminine of a derivative of G4291] so what's G4229?
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-iy'-stee-miy) v.
1. to stand before.
2. (in rank) to preside
.
3. (by implication) to practise.
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule

Strong's Concordance
prostatis: a patroness, protectress
Original Word: προστάτις, ιδος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: prostatis
Phonetic Spelling: (pros-tat'-is)

"succourer”, here speaking of Phebe is a woman in the same function as a male. {feminine of a derivative of G4291}, and G4291 is the male in that position. feminine of a derivative i the same as a MALE , "Prophet", and the female, "prophetess"

now definition TIME,
succourer: a female guardian, protector, patroness.

A. Guardian: as a NOUN guardian: what’s another word for it,
protector, guard, sentinel, keeper, custodian, warden, angel, attendant, baby-sitter, cerberus, champion, chaperon, chaperone, conservator, cop, curator, defender, escort, nurse, overseer, paladin, patrol, preserver, safeguard, shepherd, sitter, sponsor, superintendent, supervisor, trustee, vigilante, watchdog, bird dog

B. protector: what’s another word for it,
Defender, Advocate, guardian

C. patroness: female sponsor, elder.

so our sister Phebe is a woman in the same function as a male.

now Thayer's Greek Definitions
- Original: προΐ́στημι
- Transliteration: Proistemi
- Phonetic: pro-is'-tay-mee
- Definition:
1. to set or place before
a. to set over
b. to be over, to superintend, preside over
c. to be a protector or guardian

1. to give aid
d. to care for, give attention to
1. profess honest occupations
- Origin: from G4253 and G2476
- TDNT entry: 6:700,*
- Part(s) of speech: Verb

to superintend, preside over? is this not what a "BISHOP/Pastor" is, lets see,
Bishop: Original: ἐπισκοπή
- Transliteration: Episkope
- Phonetic: ep-is-kop-ay'
- Definition:
1. investigation, inspection, visitation
a. that act by which God looks into and searches out the ways, deeds character, of men, in order to adjudge them their lot accordingly, whether joyous or sad
b. oversight
1. overseership, office, charge, the office of an elder
2. the overseer or presiding officers of a Christian church

- Origin: from G1980
- TDNT entry: 12:06,2
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

our sister meet thes qualification in the term "succourer" in Romans 16:2
this word is Noun Feminine wonder why? for the qualification in 1 Timothy 3:1 is for men, married ones who seek or desire, (NOT CALLED, but "DESIRE") the WORK of God.

PICJAG, 101g.
 
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