Simple version "sugar metabolism" KREBS cycle and Glycolysis for Dan and the jailer

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
1. Glycolys (occurs in cytoplasm)

(Glucose + 2 ADP + 2 Pi + 2 NAD --> 2 Pyruvate + 2 ATP + 2 NADH + heat)

2. Pyruvate Processing

(2 Pyruvate + 2 NAD + 2CoA --> 2 Acetyl CoA + 2 CO2 + 2 NADH + heat)

Note.. The 2 carbons from pyruvate make up the acetyl part of acetylCoA. CoA is a big molecule that acts just as a carrier.)

3. Krebs Cycle

(2 AcetylCoA + 6 NAD + 2 FAD + 2 ADP + 2Pi -->
4 CO2 + 6 NADH + 2 FADH2 + 2 ATP + 2 CoA + heat)

4. ETC

( 10 NADH + 2 FADH2 + 34 ADP + 34 Pi + 6 O2-->
34 ATP + 10 NAD + 2 FAD + heat)

(Using conversion factor: 3 ATP/NADH and 2 ATP /FADH2)

Total ATP production is 38 ATP per glucose.

Note 1:
Some books state 36 ATP per glucose but this occurs in cells that convert the 2 NADHs made in glycolysis into 2 FADH2s when they enter the mitochondria where Krebs cycle and ETC occur. (It is a transporter phenomenon and has nothing to do with using ATP.) If you do the math, you end up with 2 less ATP.

This approach has worked well for over 30 years.

Note2: The NADs and FADs produced in ETC… go back to glycolysis, pyruvate processing or the Krebs Cycle for use as inputs.

Note3: Why do I talk about pyruvate processing?

Because in Fermentation pyruvate is processed to either 2) lactate or 3) ethanol rather than 1) acetyl-CoA. So there are three types of Pyruvate Processing.

Also pyruvate can be produced from other pathways such as fatty acid beta oxidation which can then be converted to acetyl-CoA and fed into the Krebs cycle.

Note 4: Pyruvate vs Pyruvic acid?

Pyruvic acid has an one more hydrogen than pyruvate

Acids are H donors so
Pyruvic acid ---> H+ + pyruvate

So pyruvic acid and pyruvate are not really the same thing.

Note 5: Cristae are the ridges in the inner mitochondrial membrane, not THE inner mitochondrial membrane. Cristae increase the total surface area of the inner mitochondrial membrane which allows for more ETC systems per mitochondrion. Inside the inner membrane are protein complexes used by the ETC to pump NADH/FADH2 protons into the intermembrane space between the inner and outer mitochondrial membranes. Also in the inner membrane are the systems (ATP Synthase) used to put P on ADP to make ATP inside the inner membrane due to the passage of protons that were pumped out by the ETC.

The ETC basically creates a battery where there are more protons on the outside than inside of inner membrane. So protons diffuse back to matrix due to proton concentration gradient and relatively negative matrix. So this is an electrochemical gradient driving ATP synthesis
^^ comments under the Khan academy presentation.

Krebs / citric acid cycle - Bing video

This is more advanced actual science than the Klown Hair lecture youtube series geared for the 4th grader audience. How did Chuck explain this? How did dumb luck develop this systemic evolutionism?

Post the number of enzymes needed for glycolysis & where they originated.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
This is more advanced actual science than the Klown Hair lecture youtube series geared for the 4th grader audience. How did Chuck explain this? How did dumb luck develop this systemic evolutionism?

Post the number of enzymes needed for glycolysis & where they originated.
The evolution of the citric acid cycle is pretty well established. See for example:
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
The wizards of Speculationism arrive and we will watch them demonstrate how metabolism sorted out the required enzymes which popped up just in time.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
The wizards of Speculationism arrive and we will watch them demonstrate how metabolism sorted out the required enzymes which popped up just in time.
They are called scientists. They do science. They teach science. They write science papers and text books. And the guy whose blog I linked to does all of these things, and is way more knowledgeable than an internet wannabe who does not know the difference between midi-clorians (the things from Star Wars) and mitachondria (the things in cells that any real doctor would know about).
1617001111325.png
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Speculationism on steroids.

Bloogers say so? lol
The claims that the Krebs cycle is "irreducibly complex" are refuted even if this was merely speculation - but that is not the case here. In the post I linked to the blogger quoted a section of a textbook he wrote that explains in detail why we have good reason to think the Kreb's cycle evolved ion that way.

This is just a fraction of the text:

Most species of bacteria do not have a complete citric acid cycle. The most common versions of an incomplete cycle include part of the left-hand side. This short linear pathway leads to production of succinate or succinyl CoA or α-ketoglutarate by a reductive process using oxaloacetate as a starting point. This reductive pathway is the reverse of the traditional cycle that functions in the mitochondria of eukaryotes. In addition, many species of bacteria also have enzymes from part of the right-hand side of the citric acid cycle, especially citrate synthase and aconitase. This allows them to synthesize citrate and isocitrate from oxaloacetate and acetyl CoA. The presence of a forked pathway (Figure 13.24) results in the synthesis of all the precursors of amino acids, porphyrins, and fatty acids.

This is not just speculation, this is science supported by real evidence.

Those who lie by pretending this is just speculation prove to the rest of us that Christians cannot be trusted. If creationists lie about this, why should we think they would not lie about the resurrection? If this is the morality of Christians, who should we think stories in the gospels are try? Every time a Christian lies it makes me wonder if the Easter story is just another Christian lie.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
This is over Rev Chuck's paygrade.
As the citric acid cycle was not discovered until the 1930s, it is no surprise Darwin did not know about it. We might as well conclude Christianity is wrong as there is no mention of it in the Bible!

Housebound Darwin from before he turned 30 years old.
Quite incredible what Darwin achieved despite his chronic ill health.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
They are called scientists. They do science. They teach science. They write science papers and text books. And the guy whose blog I linked to does all of these things, and is way more knowledgeable than an internet wannabe who does not know the difference between midi-clorians (the things from Star Wars) and mitachondria (the things in cells that any real doctor would know about).
So what did the village idiot your Kult was named after mention on the Krebs cycle?

So the ignorant Darwin shows your rockbottom low standards?

An idiot arguing with God waving Darwinism didn't even mention PROTEINS.
 

rossum

Well-known member
Any links to Darwin's majestic sacred writ discussing the krebs cycle?
Yes. He quoted the majestic sacred writ of the Bible, where it discussed the Krebs cycle. In this matter Darwin deferred to the Bible, just as he did on DNA.

Do you have any objection to Darwin repeating that the bible said?
 

Gus Bovona

Active member
The Camp Evo can't explain why they named their religion after a reverend idiot.
Let me show you how easy it is to write in your inimitable style: The Camp Christo can’t explain why they named their religion after a preacher idiot. At least, to my credit I don’t even believe that. Apparently, you do about Darwin.

See how I can do that without a shred of anything behind it? So can you, and have.
 
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