Bonnie
Super Member
But what was written down is the infallible word of God. The so-called sacred traditions of your RCC are NOT--they are "precepts of men."
Simply Take God At His Word
- Thread starter RayneBeau
- Start date
Bonnie
Super Member
So, rather than admit your church leaders erred, you would blame Jesus and reject Him? Even though He warned us that false prophets and false Christs would appear, leading many astray?
ramcam2 said:
that is true because everything was at first done orally before it was written down. Jesus never wrote a book and the commission given to the apostles was to PREACH the gospel. Jesus never ordered them to write the gospel. so, what do you think is the primary vehicle by which the truth of our Lord is to be known and passed on?
Proverbs 22:20
Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth;
that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book,
that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book,
even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,
and knowledge shall be increased.
Matt.24:
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand
Ram says;
Jesus never ordered them to write the gospel
========================================================
Ram,
if your teachers are telling you this
"Crap-Ola"
you need to tell them to
"put it where the sun never shines"
and get you some different teachers
Rev. 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
and he (Christ) sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God,
and of the testimony of Jesus Christ,
and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth,
and they that hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand.
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus
write;
These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand,
who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Write;
etc. etc. etc to all the churches
Write it in a Book
that is true because everything was at first done orally before it was written down. Jesus never wrote a book and the commission given to the apostles was to PREACH the gospel. Jesus never ordered them to write the gospel. so, what do you think is the primary vehicle by which the truth of our Lord is to be known and passed on?
======================================== end ramcam2 post
Proverbs 22:20
Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth;
that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book,
that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book,
even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,
and knowledge shall be increased.
Matt.24:
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand
Ram says;
Jesus never ordered them to write the gospel
========================================================
Ram,
if your teachers are telling you this
"Crap-Ola"
you need to tell them to
"put it where the sun never shines"
and get you some different teachers
Rev. 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
and he (Christ) sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God,
and of the testimony of Jesus Christ,
and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth,
and they that hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand.
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus
write;
These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand,
who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Write;
etc. etc. etc to all the churches
Write it in a Book
Last edited:
Spot on
everything was oral before it was written down.
jesus never ordered them to write a book.
it was only 400 years later that christianity had the bible.
the church existed first before the bible.
and not everything was written down
write it down but never were ordered to compile all these writings into a one volume book we now call as the bibleramcam2 said:
that is true because everything was at first done orally before it was written down. Jesus never wrote a book and the commission given to the apostles was to PREACH the gospel. Jesus never ordered them to write the gospel. so, what do you think is the primary vehicle by which the truth of our Lord is to be known and passed on?
======================================== end ramcam2 post
Proverbs 22:20
Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth;
that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?
Isaiah 30:8
Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book,
that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
Daniel 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book,
even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,
and knowledge shall be increased.
Matt.24:
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand
Ram says;
Jesus never ordered them to write the gospel
========================================================
Ram,
if your teachers are telling you this
"Crap-Ola"
you need to tell them to
"put it where the sun never shines"
and get you some different teachers
Rev. 1:1
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,
to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
and he (Christ) sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God,
and of the testimony of Jesus Christ,
and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth,
and they that hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand.
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus
write;
These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand,
who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Write;
etc. etc. etc to all the churches
Write it in a Book
Please show where they wrote down praying to the dead, bowing to a statue of Mary etc. Please show I mean the oral was written down.
Please show where they wrote down praying to the dead, bowing to a statue of Mary etc. Please show I mean the oral was written down. Yet scripture is clear we have everything we need for salvation in His word (which is written down).
2 Peter 1:
3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. 4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith virtue; and to virtue, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities and continue to grow in them, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever lacks these traits is nearsighted to the point of blindness, having forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10Therefore, brothers, strive to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
12Therefore I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of my body, 14because I know that this tent will soon be laid aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to ensure that after my departure, you will be able to recall these things at all times.
16For we did not follow cleverly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19We also have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. 21For no such prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
How did Peter make sure we had what we needed, he wrote it down. The RCC gives people cleverly devised fables. These are will of men, not God.
Bonnie
Super Member
The Holy Spirit did that.
No, Christians had the NT Scriptures long before that. By around 200 AD, the core of the NT--4 Gospels, Acts, and Paul's epistles--had been known and accepted to be God's holy word.
Yes, the church did exist before the Bible, but all of the books of the NT were written within the lifetime of many eyewitnesses to Jesus' majesty and glory, death, and resurrection.
Bonnie
Super Member
Jesus wasn't giving carte blanche to His disciples to make up doctrines that go beyond what is written and even contradict what is written down in God's holy word.
Bonnie
Super Member
Yes.
the holy spirit guided men to write down the word of God.
all these new testament writings that existed during those times consisted of genuine and fake writings. there was no way for the individual to determine which of these writings were genuine and inspired.
it was not until the holy spirit guided the catholic church through its councils in the 3-4th century to gather, sort out, and determine which of these writings are genuine and inspired from the fake and spurious ones.
Atemi
Well-known member
Nope.
Your sect had to wait until all the way at Trent to finalize a single canon of Scripture to use.
What is funniest of all, is that Catholics got their bible AFTER the Reformation.
Runningman
Well-known member
Not a Catholic, but I wouldn’t recommend any Bible-reader isolate a specific passage. There’s a specific understanding one needs to have if they are going to be a teacher. While the passage you quoted is correct, it isn’t unconstitutional. Keep reading Hebrews 10 from where you left off until you get to verse 26:
26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries.
Runningman
Well-known member
Oops, it autocorrected to “unconstitutional.” I meant to say unconditional.
At the Council of Rome in 382, the Church decided upon a canon of 46 Old Testament books and 27 in the New Testament. This decision was ratified by the councils at Hippo (393), Carthage (397, 419), II Nicea (787), Florence (1442), and Trent (1546). Funny, even after Trent, the deuterocanoncal books were in protestant bibles, either in the appendix or between the old and new testaments. these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825. it is historical fact that protestants TOOK AWAY the deuterocanonical books from the bible.
“[A]nd if anyone TAKES AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book” (Rev. 22:19).
Bonnie
Super Member
Hi, Runningman! You know what auto-correct is, don't you? It is a teeny, tiny elf that lives in our electronic devices, works very hard, and means well, but in reality, is just drunk...
A. k. a.,
--Rich
"The chief purpose of computers is to irritate humans and annoy them forever."
Christ saith after this happens
"the JUST shall live by Faith"
and now comes the net cast into the Seas of Rome
"and I stood upon the SANDS of the Sea
and saw a Monstrocity arise out of that sea"
a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
both Good and Bad
that includes all the "Bad Theology" of Rome
so now there is some cleaning up to do
as Paul and Martin Luther preached
Loud and Clear from the Housetops
"the JUST shall live by Faith"
and Now The Lady of Rev.ch 12
"shall the righteous shine forth as the sun
in the kingdom of their Father. "
Christ says
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore,
---after all the Gentiles be come in---
and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels,
but cast the bad away.
Ram says
At the Council of Rome in 382, the Church decided upon a canon of 46 Old Testament books and 27 in the New Testament. This decision was ratified by the councils at Hippo (393), Carthage (397, 419), II Nicea (787), Florence (1442), and Trent (1546). Funny, even after Trent, the deuterocanoncal books were in protestant bibles, either in the appendix or between the old and new testaments. these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825. it is historical fact that protestants TOOK AWAY the deuterocanonical books from the bible.
“[A]nd if anyone TAKES AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book” (Rev. 22:19).
these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825. it is historical fact that protestants TOOK AWAY the deuterocanonical books from the bible.
=========================================================
Ram;
as Christ says
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore,
---after all the Gentiles be come in---
and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels,
but cast the bad away.
Ram;
they were just getting rid of a lot of
Bad Fish and their Mustards
planed in the kingdom by the minions of Satan
//
--------the Reformation----------
Martin Luther; the Merchant Man foretold
the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man,
seeking goodly pearls:
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price,
went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
"the JUST shall live by Faith"
and now comes the net cast into the Seas of Rome
"and I stood upon the SANDS of the Sea
and saw a Monstrocity arise out of that sea"
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,
that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
both Good and Bad
that includes all the "Bad Theology" of Rome
so now there is some cleaning up to do
after all the Gentiles be come in
this will happenWhich, when it was full, they drew to shore,
---after all the Gentiles be come in---
and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels,
but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world:
the angels shall come forth,
and sever the wicked from among the just,
as Paul and Martin Luther preached
Loud and Clear from the Housetops
"the JUST shall live by Faith"
and Now The Lady of Rev.ch 12
"shall the righteous shine forth as the sun
in the kingdom of their Father. "
Christ says
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore,
---after all the Gentiles be come in---
and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels,
but cast the bad away.
Ram says
ramcam2 said:
At the Council of Rome in 382, the Church decided upon a canon of 46 Old Testament books and 27 in the New Testament. This decision was ratified by the councils at Hippo (393), Carthage (397, 419), II Nicea (787), Florence (1442), and Trent (1546). Funny, even after Trent, the deuterocanoncal books were in protestant bibles, either in the appendix or between the old and new testaments. these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825. it is historical fact that protestants TOOK AWAY the deuterocanonical books from the bible.
“[A]nd if anyone TAKES AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book” (Rev. 22:19).
these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825. it is historical fact that protestants TOOK AWAY the deuterocanonical books from the bible.
=========================================================
Ram;
as Christ says
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore,
---after all the Gentiles be come in---
and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels,
but cast the bad away.
Ram;
they were just getting rid of a lot of
Bad Fish and their Mustards
planed in the kingdom by the minions of Satan
//
Atemi
Well-known member
Incorrect. Catholic scholars disagree.
"According to Catholic doctrine, the proximate criterion of the biblical canon is the infallible decision of the Church. This decision was not given until rather late in the history of the Church at the Council of Trent.
(New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. III Can to Col (New York: Mcgraw-Hill, 1967), 29. Nihil Obstat: John P. Whalen, M.A., S.T.D. Censor Deputatus. Imprimatur: Patrick O'Boyle, D.D. Archbishop of Washington, August 5, 1966.)
The Council of Trent definitively settled the matter of the Old Testament Canon. That this had not been done previously is apparent from the uncertainty that persisted up to the time of Trent."
(New Catholic Encyclopedia, Second Edition, III Canon, Biblical, p. 26 Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat)
"The question of the "deutero-canonical" books will not be settled before the sixteenth century. As late as the second half of the thirteenth, St Bonaventure used as canonical the third book of Esdras and the prayer of Manasses, whereas St Albert the Great and St Thomas doubted their canonical value." (RC historian George H. Tavard, Holy Writ or Holy Church: The Crisis of the Protestant Reformation (London: Burns & Oates, 1959), pp. 16-17.)
"For the first fifteen centuries of Christianity, no Christian Church put forth a definitive list of biblical books. Most Christians had followed St. Augustine and included the 'Apocrypha' in the canon, but St. Jerome, who excluded them, had always had his defenders."
(Joseph Lienhard, S.J., A.B., classics, Fordham University, “The Bible, The Church, And Authority;” [Collegeville, Minnesota: The Liturgical Press, 1995], p. 59)
"...an official, definitive list of inspired writings did not exist in the Catholic Church until the Council of Trent" (Cardinal Yves Congar, Tradition and Traditions, p. 38)
"The Tridentine decrees from which the above list is extracted was the first infallible and effectually promulgated pronouncement on the Canon, addressed to the Church Universal."
"The most explicit definition of the Catholic Canon is that given by the Council of Trent"
(New Advent, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03267a.htm)
"The Canon of the New Testament, like that of the Old, is the result of a development, of a process at once stimulated by disputes with doubters, both within and without the Church, and retarded by certain obscurities and natural hesitations, and which did not reach its final term until the dogmatic definition of the Tridentine Council."
(The Catholic Encyclopedia, Canon of the New Testament, (1917) http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm)
"The Tridentine list or decree was the first infallible and effectually promulgated declaration on the Canon of the Holy Scriptures"
(The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, H.J. Schroeder (English translator of Trent), (Rockford: Tan, 1978), Fourth Session, Footnote #4, p. 17).
"The final definitive list of biblical books (including the seven additional Old Testament books) was only drawn up at the council of Trent in 1546. “Most Christians had followed St. Augustine and included the 'Apocrypha' in the canon, but St. Jerome, who excluded them, had always had his defenders." (Joseph Lienhard, The Bible, The Church, And Authority [Collegeville, Minnesota: The Liturgical Press, 1995], p. 59)