Sin nature,

Correct -God saw to that!

God saw to it that OJ would kill Nicole? LOL

...consciously, purposefully, and needlessly..........

Could you repeat that? I've only seen it a mere 10,874 times.

Who on earth ever told you that the Christian God makes sense?

You shouldn't project your own befuddled and demented persona onto Divinity. You make Biden look like William F. Buckley Jr.

"An eye for an eye"
flip flop
"Offer no resistance to injury"

Yep. He FLIPPED from one Covenant to another. But you never had kids, did you? Good thing:

TP TO TP JR: "Son, I know I told you when you were 4 that you couldn't ride your bike without training wheel, and I know you're 13 now, but I still insist on training wheels, because I DON'T FLIP FLOP."


"Go into town and steal me a horse"

Bible verse?? Ya got nothin' once again, do ya? You just never learn.


"I and the Father are one"
flip flop
"My God, why have you forsaken me"

Prove God forsook Him. Ya got nothin' once again, do ya? You just never learn.

Oh, wait. Let's see that previous analogy once again that you were too weak to respond to:

DOCTOR: "Mr. Planter, your ticker is in bad shape. I advise you not to smoke, not to drink to excess, to stay away from coffee and don't eat foods high in fat."

TREEPLANTER: "WAAAAH. You just gave me a 'menu' of things to choose. WAAAAH."


Reply
 
And it is immoral to consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon another
Yet you do it daily to God, and people who explain the truth to you. And you obviously think you're doing them a favor.
Seems like you have a cognitive dissonance issue here.
That He then provides a solution to the problem that He caused is IRRELEVANT!
It's not irrelevant, but you are clearly desperate for it to be irrelevant, so you can convince others to suffer from your hatred's consequences.
For someone who keeps saying that it's immoral to consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon another, you're sure doing an incredible job of demonstrating your immorality.

It's not up to me whether I sin or not, Steve
Actually, it is!
God created me with a corrupt nature that INEVITABLY COMPELS SIN
Nope. You're choosing your own sin.
Unless you're not actually a human being and are just a poorly programmed automaton/AI.
In which case, nothing that's been discussed for the past several years applies to you.

God created me INCAPABLE OF LIVING A SINLESS LIFE
Nope. You inherited your parent's nature as a human being.
God didn't create after Adam and Eve.
It's all biology from them forward.

God created me DESTINED TO SIN AT LEAST ONCE
Nope.
It's all biology from Adam and Eve forward.

You've already agreed that this is the case and have dismissed my objections to it as "whining"
You are whining. You've made yourself out to be a spoiled child, constantly throwing temper tantrums and hissy fits!
It's like being in the grocery store and watching a child lying on the floor, crying because they can't get the candy they wanted. It's really sad to see it happen. You really are an embarrassment to your humanity.
You've already agreed that this is the case and defended YHVH's actions with an assertion of "creator's prerogative"
I've said numerous other things about this too, and yet you continue to reject the truth, so, if you're going to use your stupidity to justify your ignorance and refusal to follow Jesus, then you have a serious problem that nobody but you can resolve.

YHVH's prerogative was to give the human race the freedom to choose life or death. You clearly prefer to be a preprogrammed automaton, incapable of choice, so, YHVH's prerogative of giving you humanity is an affront to you.

Whiny, spoiled brat, throwing temper tantrums on the grocery store floor, because you didn't want to grow up and buy your own candy.

A really sad, and seriously sick human being.

Why are you now claiming that I can live a sinless life when YHVH, Himself, clearly states in scripture that "none are righteous, not even one"???
There are none righteous.
Except Jesus.
And he's given us his righteousness, and the resources to live godly lives.
Had you actually bothered reading the bible for the purpose of understanding and learning, you could have seen that.

1 John 2:1-2 states in rather clear terms that it's possible to live without sinning.

However, the only way to achieve this is to start with turning to YHVH from your sin and placing your trust in Jesus Christ.

1Jn 2:1-2 WEB 1 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous. 2 And he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

You're all over the board, Steve...
Nope.
You're definitely demonstrating that you are losing your ability to reason clearly. Which is exactly what God said would happen to people who close themselves off from God.

Rom 1:21-22 WEB 21 Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

You're decreasing your own humanity by your ongoing rage against YHVH and Jesus.


What I said, Steve, is that YOU grant God moral impunity due His status as creator
Nope.
YHVH paid the full price for my sin. The sheer cruelty and brutality that Jesus endured, along with the magnitude of the grief the Father bore to save you, me, and the rest of the human race is demonstration that he is not given impunity.


In other words, God is, according to you, morally excused when He consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon us simply because He created us
I never said that.
YHVH's gift of his son, suffering excruciating brutality, at the hands of my fellow humans, and then dying, is demonstration that he has suffered great consequences for my sin.

He could have simply destroyed the entire human race at the flood. Untold numbers of people did die in their sin. They had 120 years to come to him and turn away from their sin and they refused. So he saved 8 people from the destruction of the flood. In doing so, he's given the human race a chance for a better life.

PLEASE, PLEASE TRY READING FOR COMPREHENSION!
I'm still waiting for you to do so.
You have an exceedingly great hatred, and loathing towards all things godly, and love and life. And it's blinding you from learning anything.
Demonstrating the truth of this passage out of Hosea 9.

You consider the prophet to be a fool, and the man who is inspired to be insane, because of the abundance of your sins, and because your hostility is great.

You're like a rabid wolf, drooling, teeth bared, and rage in its eyes. The murderous hatred you daily show is exceedingly grotesque.



Jesus:
"Let me in"
Me:
"Why?"
Jesus:
"So I can save you"
Me:
"Save me from what?"
Jesus:
"From what I'll do to you if you don't let me in"
Blasphemy too.
It's not what he'll do to you.
It's what you're doing to yourself.

You're standing on the edge of a precipice, to a exceedingly deep chasm. The ledge you're on is crumbling away. With each passing second, minute, hour, day, week, month, and year, it's becoming increasingly smaller.
We're reaching out to you, trying to save you from experiencing the consequences of the slow demise of the ledge you're on. But every attempt to save you from certain death is met by accusations that I'm responsible for your state, when it's you who put yourself there.

Death is coming unless you turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ. And your self-perceived "integrity" is a lie. The only thing you have is your ego. And it's writing checks you'll never be able to cash, and back up.
 
Greetings again SteveB,

That method seems beneficial. Did you notice a theme in the early chapters of Deuteronomy concerning dealing with giants?
What does this have to do with the living soul and spirit of the human being?

Not sure what you are saying here.
It's pretty straightforward. You said I needed to read the bible more. So, what part are you not understanding?
I accept that Jesus is speaking firstly to his immediate Apostles concerning the Holy Spirit gifts, given especially to the Apostles. Also the believers also received these gifts, some with tongues others with healing and some other portions for the benefit of the whole assembly.
I'm simply referring to the point where Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would give us recall, and teach us everything we need to know in order to follow Jesus.
Sounds like you're over-complicating it.


I see no evidence that these gifts are available today, despite Pentecostal and some factions of the Baptists claims.
Pity. According to 2 Timothy 3, that's a deadly position to be in.
I'm neither Pentecostal nor Baptist. I walked into a Pentecostal church once. That was the last time. I tried a Baptist church for a few months, because we moved to live in a rural area. That didn't last long. I didn't like the idea of having to sign a membership card, and wear suits.
I grew up in a region where we wore shorts, sandals, and either t shirts, or Hawaiian-type print shirts. It was a very casual environment. The churches I've attended over the years have been good with this.


2Ti 3:5 WEB holding a form of godliness but having denied its power. Turn away from these, also.

If God is not empowering the gospel of Jesus, then God's Spirit and Word are not able to impart the life of God, and is a dead and meaningless set of ideas.

People like that have no life in them and promote a false religion.

I see no evidence that you understand the various Scriptures that I have mentioned.
I'm ok with that.
You have not been able to show me that you actually understand what I've been explaining. And even started with the statement that you have never heard of what I've been explaining.
So, this achieves.... what, exactly?

The churches I've attended are really big on studying and reading the bible, prayer, engagement in community activities for the sake of the gospel. Also in engaging other people to know God through trusting Jesus.

The new birth, godliness, biblical righteousness, and holiness are imperatives for following Jesus.

It's not enough to be a religious person.
Jesus said in three distinct locations that there are 3 distinct requirements to enter God's Kingdom.
1- the new birth. John 3:3-5.
2- a righteousness which exceeds mere outward morality. Matthew 5:20
3- become like a little child. Matthew 18:3.

Without them, it's impossible to enter God's Kingdom.
Thankfully, he provides the wherewithal to obtain all 3.
 
God saw to it that OJ would kill Nicole?
No, God saw to it that OJ is incapable of living a life of sinlessness - i.e. a righteous life

Could you repeat that? I've only seen it a mere 10,874 times.
Sure thing - maybe this time it'll sink in...

To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon another is immoral

Yep. He FLIPPED from one Covenant to another. But you never had kids, did you? Good thing:

TP TO TP JR: "Son, I know I told you when you were 4 that you couldn't ride your bike without training wheel, and I know you're 13 now, but I still insist on training wheels, because I DON'T FLIP FLOP."
What I am talking about, stiggy, is the flip flopping upon matters of morality

Slavery, for example, is ALWAYS immoral

The age, eon, epoch, era, century, generation, decade, year, month, day, hour, etc doesn't figure into it all
There never has been a time when slavery was not immoral
There never will be a time when slavery is not immoral

Training wheels on bicycles is NOT a matter of morality

An accurate analogy would be as follows:

TP to TP Jr: "Son, I know I told you when you were 4 that you shouldn't take things that don't belong to you, and I know you're 13 now, but I still insist that you not steal because, unlike certain deities who claim to be both perfectly righteous and unchanging, I DON'T FLIP FLOP on matters of right and wrong"

You suck at analogies, stigs

Speaking of which...

Let's see that previous analogy once again that you were too weak to respond to:

DOCTOR: "Mr. Planter, your ticker is in bad shape. I advise you not to smoke, not to drink to excess, to stay away from coffee and don't eat foods high in fat."

TREEPLANTER: "WAAAAH. You just gave me a 'menu' of things to choose. WAAAAH."


Reply
Again, you completely misunderstand

It's not that I take offense to being presented with an assortment of options

What I take offense to is being presented with an assortment of EVIL options and being required to choose at least one
 
Yet you do it daily to God, and people who explain the truth to you. And you obviously think you're doing them a favor.
Seems like you have a cognitive dissonance issue here.
1. You claim that I consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon God and PEOPLE WHO EXPLAIN THE 'TRUTH' TO ME
{This ostensibly means Christians, in general, and you, in particular, right?}

2. In the very next sentence, you assert that it's obvious that I believe that I am doing Him/them/you a favor

If I believe that I am doing you a favor
{which I do}
then how exactly can I consciously
{let alone, purposefully}
be inflicting harm upon you?


Clearly, it is you with the cognitive dissonance issue!

It never ceases to amaze me how almost everything you write is wrong...

Address this and then I'll address the rest of your tedious post
 
Greetings again SteveB,
What does this have to do with the living soul and spirit of the human being?
I was interested if you noticed this and how thorough was your understanding of what you read. If you read Deuteronomy six times you may have noticed this theme, especially if your read a few of the early chapters in one sitting. I often read and gloss over some aspects of what is actually stated, but this theme was drawn to my attention by one of our speakers in a talk in 2006 and now I notice this more when I read Deuteronomy.
It's pretty straightforward. You said I needed to read the bible more. So, what part are you not understanding?
No, I asked if you had your own reading plan and if you read the Bible consistently. The rest is still obscure. You were the one that started this on the basis that you thought I did not read the Bible and its message and I assume you were saying that if I did I would make the same conclusions as you did on Genesis.
I'm simply referring to the point where Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would give us recall, and teach us everything we need to know in order to follow Jesus.
Sounds like you're over-complicating it.
I understand this recall was to enable the Apostles to teach and Matthew and John to record their Gospel messages under inspiration. I do not believe that this is speaking to us, and I do not have a third voice in my head. One of my ex-Baptist workmates now part time Pentecostal Pastor claimed that what he stated was as a result of his having the Holy Spirit. On one occasion when we were discussing OSAS, he paused took a deep breath, and then stated something ridiculous in support of OSAS. He also believed in the gift of healing and the prosperity doctrine.
Pity. According to 2 Timothy 3, that's a deadly position to be in.
I'm neither Pentecostal nor Baptist. I walked into a Pentecostal church once. That was the last time. I tried a Baptist church for a few months, because we moved to live in a rural area. That didn't last long.
I read 2 Timothy 3 as teaching the need to listen to the inspired Word of God, not a voice within. The Word of God and the Gospel is powerful and does not need the Holy Spirit to interpret this to us. Consider the Parable of the Sower and Romans 1:16-17, 10:17. My daughter moved to a region for a while, and attended a Baptist Church for a while. She became uncomfortable when an obsessive woman thought that she had the Holy Spirit and kept on harassing her with "I have a message for you" and then saying unusual things.
I'm ok with that. You have not been able to show me that you actually understand what I've been explaining. And even started with the statement that you have never heard of what I've been explaining. So, this achieves.... what, exactly?
The main area of your posts was on Genesis on sin nature and death of the soul and you have now avoided this or given poor exposition by imposing your wrong theology or ideas on Genesis.
It's not enough to be a religious person.
Jesus said in three distinct locations that there are 3 distinct requirements to enter God's Kingdom.
1- the new birth. John 3:3-5.
2- a righteousness which exceeds mere outward morality. Matthew 5:20
3- become like a little child. Matthew 18:3.
Yes, these are important. I would also emphasise the necessity to affectionately believe the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name and to be baptised in water in identification with the death and resurrection of Christ Acts 8:5-6,12 and then to live the crucified/resurrected life Galatians 2:20,Romans 6:1-8. It is interesting that Baptists and other groups who believe that they have the Holy Spirit do not see the necessity of water baptism.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
1. You claim that I consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon God and PEOPLE WHO EXPLAIN THE 'TRUTH' TO ME
{This ostensibly means Christians, in general, and you, in particular, right?}

2. In the very next sentence, you assert that it's obvious that I believe that I am doing Him/them/you a favor

If I believe that I am doing you a favor
{which I do}
then how exactly can I consciously
{let alone, purposefully}
be inflicting harm upon you?



Clearly, it is you with the cognitive dissonance issue!

It never ceases to amaze me how almost everything you write is wrong...

Address this and then I'll address the rest of your tedious post
I grew up with the phrase from my parents....

The highway to hell is paved with good intentions.

Your belief is immaterial.

Your actions and your words are words/actions that bring damnation and everlasting shame and contempt.

In essence, you speak the words of the devil and demons.

So.... yes! You injure, and damage and corrupt people, convincing them to send themselves to an eternity of misery and agony and anguish....

And you do so convinced you're saving them from a fate far worse.


Thus, your intentions are paving the highway to hell.
 
You injure, and damage and corrupt people, convincing them to send themselves to an eternity of misery and agony and anguish....
And you do so convinced you're saving them from a fate far worse.
Thus I AM NOT CONSCIOUSLY AND PURPOSEFULLY inflicting harm - despite your persistent and entirely unfounded claims that I am

Is it possible that I am causing harm?
Yes - {although I certainly do not believe this to be the case}

If I am causing harm, is the harm CONSCIOUS and PURPOSEFUL?
No!
By your own admission, it is NOT, Steve!!

Your words:
"And you obviously think you're doing them a favor"
"And you do so convinced you're saving them from a fate far worse"



Also your words:
"You're like a rabid wolf, drooling, teeth bared, and rage in its eyes. The murderous hatred you daily show is exceedingly grotesque"

Let's get this straight
I am NOT motivated by hatred!

To the contrary, I am motivated by my love for humanity
Even maliciously abusive people like yourself who spread such despicable lies about me
 
No, God saw to it that OJ is incapable of living a life of sinlessness - i.e. a righteous life

So God "saw to it" that OJ stabbed Nicole? I wonder why the state of California didn't make Him a co-defendant.

To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon another is immoral

Have you ever been checked for autism?


What I am talking about, stiggy, is the flip flopping upon matters of morality

Slavery, for example, is ALWAYS immoral

Who said it wasn't? Show me a Bible verse stating slavery is a good thing. And don't give me that garbage about how God allowed it. He also allowed divorce.

An accurate analogy would be as follows:

Oh, so you want to introduce morals into the analogy:

TP SR. to TP JR: "Son, I know I told your big sister now that she is grown she has my blessings to marry Bob, but just because I'm not giving you my blessings to marry Bob's brother, that doesn't mean I'm flip-flopping."

You never have, you don't now and I guess you never will know how analogies work. Schooling you is a difficult task, but someone has to at least try and I guess I'm elected.
 
So God "saw to it" that OJ stabbed Nicole?
No, God saw to it that OJ is incapable of living a life of sinlessness - i.e. a righteous life

God saw to it that OJ commit at least one sin

That OJ chose to stab Nicole is on him
That OJ is incapable of living a life of sinlessness is on God


Have you ever been checked for mental retardation?
 
No, God saw to it that OJ is incapable of living a life of sinlessness -

Then it shouldn't be hard for you to cough up a NT Bible verse proving that to be the case. Want me to make it easy for you:

Fill in the blanks:

"In the New Testament book of _________, chapter ___, verse ___, we read where God SEES TO IT that everyone sins."

Have you ever been checked for mental retardation?

How does it make you feel to be matching wits and losing to an alleged Retard? Must not be good for your self esteem. Now fill in those blanks, boy!
 
Thus I AM NOT CONSCIOUSLY AND PURPOSEFULLY inflicting harm - despite your persistent and entirely unfounded claims that I am
We've already been through this issue several weeks ago.
How many times do you want to repeat the same thing all over again?
You actually are doing this maliciously, deliberately, purposely inflicting needless harm.
Explicitly because I have previously explained it.



Is it possible that I am causing harm?
Yes - {although I certainly do not believe this to be the case}
You've previously been warned.
Thus, as stated, the highway to hell is paved with good intentions.

We further read in 2 Timothy, about people who promote doctrines of demons.
You are exactly one of them.


If I am causing harm, is the harm CONSCIOUS and PURPOSEFUL?
No!
By your own admission, it is NOT, Steve!!
Since you have been explained, and you continue to do it, you are in fact consciously, purposely and needlessly inflicting harm.
No different than the guy who pulls the trigger on a loaded gun, believing it's not loaded.

Your words:
"And you obviously think you're doing them a favor"
"And you do so convinced you're saving them from a fate far worse"

Yep!
The highway to hell is paved with good intentions.
It's still deceiving you and those who believe you.
You will be responsible for the lives you destroy. Their blood will be on your hands, just as if you murdered them with your own hands.
Also your words:
"You're like a rabid wolf, drooling, teeth bared, and rage in its eyes. The murderous hatred you daily show is exceedingly grotesque"
Yep.
Let's get this straight
I am NOT motivated by hatred!
You may not want to believe that, but you are.

Judas iscariot thought he was doing Jesus a favor by forcing his hand to declare himself the Messiah.
Jesus was still betrayed, and he still died.

Jesus said that it would have been better that Judas was never born.

Judas still perished, after hanging himself.
Judas was utterly convinced he was doing right by Jesus.
His actions were still responsible, regardless of his self-perceived motives.
The results and consequences are still the same.
You are making yourself a murderer.



To the contrary, I am motivated by my love for humanity
Judas iscariot believed the same.
He wanted Jesus to show himself to the world as Israel's messiah.
The highway to hell is paved with good intentions.
The consequences are exactly the same.
Judas was culpable for what he did. Regardless of his intentions.
Hitler too believed he was doing what was best for Germany. He slaughtered over 12 million people.
Stalin was convinced he was doing what was best for the Soviet union, and slaughtered over 20 million people.
Mao did what he believed what was best for China. He slaughtered over 80 million people.
Pol pot, over 1 to 2 million.
The North Korean government, over 2 million.
Every single despotic government has been utterly convinced that they were doing what was best for their respective countries. The consequences are exactly the same....
Untold numbers of people died needlessly. Their deaths were purposely and consciously done.
So, just as they were held accountable for their crimes, so you too will be held accountable for yours.
Is that really what you want for yourself?
To be known in eternity as a murderer and deceiver?
No different than the pied piper?

As Jesus said,
The thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy.

You're not doing anyone any favors.
The highway to hell is paved with good intentions.


Even maliciously abusive people like yourself who spread such despicable lies about me
Not a lie. The explicit truth.

You've chosen the highway to hell, and convinced yourself that you have the best intentions.

The results are exactly the same.
Those who believe you will perish and spend their eternity in the lake of fire.
And you will have convinced them to do so.

The highway to hell is paved with good intentions. The end result is the same....
Just as if you murdered them with your own hands.
 
Then it shouldn't be hard for you to cough up a NT Bible verse proving that to be the case
We've already been over this, stiggy

The OT makes clear that God, as a result of Adam's actions, created you and I, from birth, to be at enmity with Him
Christian teaching makes clear that God, as a result of Adam's actions, created you and I, from birth, to be at enmity with Him

I don't care that it may not be explicitly stated in the NT
 
You actually are doing this maliciously, deliberately, purposely inflicting needless harm.
Wrong, Steve

One cannot deliberately and purposefully be inflicting needless harm when one believes that one is being helpful

Is it possible that harm is being inflicted despite one's belief that he/she is being helpful?
Yes, absolutely

Is it possible, in this case, that the harm being inflicted is DELIBERATE and PURPOSEFUL?
Hell no!

If one acts in the belief that one is being helpful - this is, by definition, the very opposite of a CONSCIOUS, DELIBERATE, and PURPOSEFUL infliction of harm

The cognitive dissonance that you exhibit is shocking


Which is it, Steve?
Am I malicious or am I sincere, but mistaken?

It cannot be both

And for the record, I don't think that you are malicious
I trust that you sincerely believe in the drivel that you espouse
I trust that you sincerely believe that you are benefitting others by sharing the Gospel
 
Wrong, Steve

One cannot deliberately and purposefully be inflicting needless harm when one believes that one is being helpful

Is it possible that harm is being inflicted despite one's belief that he/she is being helpful?
Yes, absolutely

Is it possible, in this case, that the harm being inflicted is DELIBERATE and PURPOSEFUL?
Hell no!

If one acts in the belief that one is being helpful - this is, by definition, the very opposite of a CONSCIOUS, DELIBERATE, and PURPOSEFUL infliction of harm

The cognitive dissonance that you exhibit is shocking


Which is it, Steve?
Am I malicious or am I sincere, but mistaken?

It cannot be both

And for the record, I don't think that you are malicious
I trust that you sincerely believe in the drivel that you espouse
I trust that you sincerely believe that you are benefitting others by sharing the Gospel
Seig hiel mein furher.
I'm sure that Judas iscariot felt the same way.
As Hitler, stalin, mao, and all the other tyrannical despots.
How does it feel knowing that your despotism is alive and thriving!
 
Seig hiel mein furher.
I'm sure that Judas iscariot felt the same way.
As Hitler, stalin, mao, and all the other tyrannical despots.
How does it feel knowing that your despotism is alive and thriving!
You are the saddest person I have ever encountered

I wish you well, Steve
 
You are the saddest person I have ever encountered

I wish you well, Steve
Why, because I believe YHVH over someone who has repeatedly stated that he would rather spend their eternity in the lake of fire than to believe the truth regarding YHVH and Jesus?

Seems like you're the one with the serious problems.

It takes real hate to seek to bring ruin on people and be convinced they are just doing what they believe is best.

That's a serious problem.
 
I don't care that it may not be explicitly stated in the NT

TP: " The Apostle Paul was a harelipped albino dwarf who had six toes on his left foot."

Stiggy: "Please provide a New Testament verse stating that."

TP: "I don't care that it may or may not be explicitly stated in the NT."
 
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