Sin that leads to death

Manfred

Well-known member
In another thread @CharismaticLady made the distinction between sin that leads to death as it being sin that breaks the 10 commandments and sin that does not break the 10 Commandments, but that trespasses against God.

She alludes to the Lords prayer where we are taught to pray "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." Forgiveness of our trespass is thus dependent on our forgiving others their trespass against us.

Further, she states that we are able not to sin:
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Looking at the passages in context:
16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

If anyone sees his brother (Brother in Christ?) committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask (on behalf of this brother) and God will give him life- those brothers who commit sins that do not lead to death..

A couple of observations:
I do not think "brother" here refers to those already saved, or brothers in Christ, as the prayer will lead to God giving that "brother" life.
God having to give someone life, denotes that "Life" was not given before. (John equates Life, with Jesus- 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—)

If someone want's to argue loss of salvation and restoration to salvation, then they would have to negate:
"It is impossible.... 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

There is sin that leads to death; and John says one should not pray for that.

What is the unforgivable sin? Does it lead to death, or do you remain dead in your sin... Can the sin that leads to death be anything but the unforgivable sin and can those who are born again believers commit the unforgivable sin, or is the unforgivable sin rejection of the Holy Spirit by denying Him.

Not all sin prevents you from being reconciled to God, and pray for those who commit these sins, and God will restore them. There is a sin that prevents one from being reconciled to God.
Those that are reconciled to God, do not keep on sinning, because Christ protects them and the evil one does not touch the reconciled child of God.

Therefore, looking at the context, I do not agree with @CharismaticLady that breaking the "Royal Law" as a born again believer is the sin that leads to death.
Only blasphemy of the Holy Spirit leads to death, and the passage in 1 John should be read with a hemaneutic, taking all of scripture in mind.

All born again believers do trespass and need to repent, and forgive and we should strive to live our lives without sinning. Living in the Spirit at all times, thereby not satisfying the lusts of the flesh. This is not an impossibility, as scripture is clear that we are no longer slaves to sin, so we can overcome every sin and we should endeavor to live in that victory.

18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

The righteousness of Christ covers all sin for those who have been made righteous by faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and by confessing that He was raised from the dead.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
The righteousness of Christ covers all sin for those who have been made righteous by faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and by confessing that He was raised from the dead.
Past? (2 Pt. 1:9) Takes away, not "covers" 1 John 3:5
Or past, present and future? (scripture please)
 
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Manfred

Well-known member
Past? (2 Pt. 1:9) Takes away, not "covers" 1 John 3:5
Or past, present and future? (scripture please)
Are you able to pull the trigger on committing the unforgivable sin?
On the other thread you mentioned conviction too strong to break the royal law, but you have no problem with a conviction not strong enough to prevent you from committing the unforgivable sin?

Jesus died ONCE.
His righteousness takes away/covers all sin, past present and future.
There is no semi imputed righteousness. Otherwise you turn salvation into obedience to commandments with failure to adhere leading to death. Just like the Law.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
A couple of observations:
I do not think "brother" here refers to those already saved, or brothers in Christ, as the prayer will lead to God giving that "brother" life.
God having to give someone life, denotes that "Life" was not given before. (John equates Life, with Jesus- 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—)

1 Corinthians 5:
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

Only God knows if we are saved or not. All we know is what they claim to be.

If someone want's to argue loss of salvation and restoration to salvation, then they would have to negate:
"It is impossible.... 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

James 5:
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

There is sin that leads to death; and John says one should not pray for that.

What is the unforgivable sin? Does it lead to death, or do you remain dead in your sin... Can the sin that leads to death be anything but the unforgivable sin and can those who are born again believers commit the unforgivable sin, or is the unforgivable sin rejection of the Holy Spirit by denying Him.
Not all sin prevents you from being reconciled to God, and pray for those who commit these sins, and God will restore them. There is a sin that prevents one from being reconciled to God.
Those that are reconciled to God, do not keep on sinning, because Christ protects them and the evil one does not touch the reconciled child of God.

You didn't answer your question of "What is the unforgivable sin?"
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Are you able to pull the trigger on committing the unforgivable sin?
On the other thread you mentioned conviction too strong to break the royal law, but you have no problem with a conviction not strong enough to prevent you from committing the unforgivable sin?

Jesus died ONCE.
His righteousness takes away/covers all sin, past present and future.
There is no semi imputed righteousness. Otherwise you turn salvation into obedience to commandments with failure to adhere leading to death. Just like the Law.

I asked that you give scripture, not your opinion, that Christ takes away future sins. Is that automatically if there is no conviction to repent?
 

Manfred

Well-known member
1 Corinthians 5:
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

Only God knows if we are saved or not. All we know is what they claim to be.
You must not ignore the letter of 1 John
If they were of us, they never would have left. But now they have left, making it clear that they were never of us.
People put in charge of a Church, turning out to be the tares.
James 5:
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
And you think man gets the glory for turning someone back?
You didn't answer your question of "What is the unforgivable sin?"
I know what it is.
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Giving the evil one or self, glory for what should be given to the Spirit.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I asked that you give scripture, not your opinion, that Christ takes away future sins. Is that automatically if there is no conviction to repent?
Opinion? Like the trinity is an opinion?
What do you mean... There are many scriptures that shows me I was saved, I am being saved, and my flesh will be changed, and my salvation will be complete.

You think Jesus needs to deal with sin again?
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Actually if one is born of God, born again, it is impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9. And in 1 John 3 when you see Him as He is, born of God, ye shall be like Him. That does not include sin. For is you are a sinner then read 1 John 3:8. It tells you clearly who you are of.

God does not cover over our sins, He removes the sin from your being. Few who actually believe Jesus to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, to the sinner that is impossible.

One cant know what sin is least you know what it is to be the righteousness of God in Christ. Christ meaning to be gods anointed, Christ in you, you anointed of God no different at all from the anointing Jesus was of. If you are different from him then you are not of the same God Jesus was of.

When one is like the Father of it by His Spirit be your spirit and in His same image as Jesus was, only then can you know the difference from sin and righteousness to be as He is. Until one is born of God -- sin, separation from Him to be as He is will be an effort to overcome of yourself, and you will fail miserably trying, instead of giving it over to God for Him to deal with which sets you free from sin.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Actually if one is born of God, born again, it is impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9. And in 1 John 3 when you see Him as He is, born of God, ye shall be like Him. That does not include sin. For is you are a sinner then read 1 John 3:8. It tells you clearly who you are of.

God does not cover over our sins, He removes the sin from your being. Few who actually believe Jesus to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, to the sinner that is impossible.

One cant know what sin is least you know what it is to be the righteousness of God in Christ. Christ meaning to be gods anointed, Christ in you, you anointed of God no different at all from the anointing Jesus was of. If you are different from him then you are not of the same God Jesus was of.

When one is like the Father of it by His Spirit be your spirit and in His same image as Jesus was, only then can you know the difference from sin and righteousness to be as He is. Until one is born of God -- sin, separation from Him to be as He is will be an effort to overcome of yourself, and you will fail miserably trying, instead of giving it over to God for Him to deal with which sets you free from sin.
Tell us Gary, did Jesus rise from the dead?
Was there a physical resurrection, and why?

I am not interested in your gnostisism. You do not believe Jesus is God in the flesh. You are antichrist.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Tell us Gary, did Jesus rise from the dead?
Christ has in all who has received the Christ to be anointed of God yourself.

Most are still waiting for a man to come out of a grave to save them and will go to the grave themselves never receiving the promise of He will come to you and sup with you and be in you.

You tell me is he risen from the dead or are you still looking for him to someday for the past 2000 years?
Was there a physical resurrection, and why?
There is a spiritual resurrection in all who has received Him. God is a Spirit not a man. No flesh inherits the kingdom of God. Man is only the temple of Him. the message in the cross is death to that flesh and resurrection of the spirit man. That tomb is empty
I am not interested in your gnostisism. You do not believe Jesus is God in the flesh. You are antichrist.
Actually you are not interested in the One who is at your door knocking this day.

Sorry but when you do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him, 1 John 3. And in that if you ever do let the One at your door in, you will know the same SPirit of God who came to that man in Matt 3:16 and opend all of His heaven to him as well, that God is not a man but is SPirit and man is the temple of Him.

As long as your god is a man, you will never know the One who came to Jesus and opened His will to him, and that Jesus obeyed, the One Jesus prayed to, the One who sent Jesus to show you the way to the Father.

You just do not follow Jesus in his way is all and condemn us who has followed him to the Father of it to be perfect as He is perfect and have His same mind and walk as He walks in it a Jesus did as God demands of you.

You dont have a clue who Christ is. Christ is Gods anointed and either you are anointed of God, Christ in you, or you are not just as Jesus was anointed of God.

It isnt I you reject, it is the Christ be in you that you reject and hold a man as a god in a grave instead of letting the One who does come out from it who is at your door this day. In your current belief system, you will go to a grave waiting for your god to come and never knowing the One who does.

What good is a god that is still in a grave that you have no access to?

You simply do not believe 1 John 3.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Opinion? Like the trinity is an opinion?
What do you mean... There are many scriptures that shows me I was saved, I am being saved, and my flesh will be changed, and my salvation will be complete.

You think Jesus needs to deal with sin again?
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Jesus doesn't. That is why He empowered us, taking away our sin nature, so we could be like Him. There should be no future willful sins of lawlessness. 1 Jhn 3:4 So, again, where did Jesus fail to take away our sin that we should sin again? What you are alluding to, though you won't admit it, is called a license to sin, that all our future sin is already covered, Gnoticism.
 

civic

Well-known member
Jesus doesn't. That is why He empowered us, taking away our sin nature, so we could be like Him. There should be no future willful sins of lawlessness. 1 Jhn 3:4 So, again, where did Jesus fail to take away our sin that we should sin again? What you are alluding to, though you won't admit it, is called a license to sin, that all our future sin is already covered, Gnoticism.
Your above comments are proof positive that you are clueless about Gnosticism.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
You must not ignore the letter of 1 John
If they were of us, they never would have left. But now they have left, making it clear that they were never of us.
People put in charge of a Church, turning out to be the tares.

Exactly. I agree. They are fake, and there are many willfully sinning "Christians" that aren't saved either. You may teach them that their future sins are covered, but they're not.

And you think man gets the glory for turning someone back?

I don't know what that has to do with anything. I'm pointing out that that verse proves that OSAS is a myth. They might have had a lot of fruit at first, but maybe got unequally yoked with stronger personalities and drifted away. Love is blind. We need to stay on the path towards salvation. Salvation is the prize at the end of the road, not the beginning of the race. We must endure to the end.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Jesus doesn't. That is why He empowered us, taking away our sin nature, so we could be like Him. There should be no future willful sins of lawlessness. 1 Jhn 3:4 So, again, where did Jesus fail to take away our sin that we should sin again? What you are alluding to, though you won't admit it, is called a license to sin, that all our future sin is already covered, Gnoticism.
Your sin nature still lurks about.
That is why Paul exhorts us to live in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

I will never say that we have a license to sin. That is just nonsense.
The reality however is that Christians do sin, even though they do NOT WANT TOO

13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (Gal 5 ESV)
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Exactly. I agree. They are fake, and there are many willfully sinning "Christians" that aren't saved either. You may teach them that their future sins are covered, but they're not.
Why are you conflating Christians with tares?
Why would I say a tare has any sin forgiven?
Stay on point please.
I don't know what that has to do with anything. I'm pointing out that that verse proves that OSAS is a myth. They might have had a lot of fruit at first, but maybe got unequally yoked with stronger personalities and drifted away. Love is blind. We need to stay on the path towards salvation. Salvation is the prize at the end of the road, not the beginning of the race. We must endure to the end.
You claim that Christians cannot commit sin that leads to death but on the other side of your mouth you condemn.

I am saying that it is by the leading of the Spirit, and not because you lead someone back. You would then get the glory. Not sure if that is what you are after?

You quoted this:
James 5:
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

Do you get the glory for turning someone back?
Are you the author and perfector of my or a brothers faith?
Can you save a soul from death?

You should learn to use proper exegesis. God works through His children for His glory.
The way you write, makes it sound as if you deserve the glory...
 

Charlie Spine

New Member
Exactly. I agree. They are fake, and there are many willfully sinning "Christians" that aren't saved either. You may teach them that their future sins are covered, but they're not.



I don't know what that has to do with anything. I'm pointing out that that verse proves that OSAS is a myth. They might have had a lot of fruit at first, but maybe got unequally yoked with stronger personalities and drifted away. Love is blind. We need to stay on the path towards salvation. Salvation is the prize at the end of the road, not the beginning of the race. We must endure to the end.
Scriptural proof that Christians cannot lose their salvation https://carm.org/scriptural-proof-christians-cannot-lose-salvation
 

Charlie Spine

New Member
Actually if one is born of God, born again, it is impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9. And in 1 John 3 when you see Him as He is, born of God, ye shall be like Him. That does not include sin. For is you are a sinner then read 1 John 3:8. It tells you clearly who you are of.

God does not cover over our sins, He removes the sin from your being. Few who actually believe Jesus to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, to the sinner that is impossible.

One cant know what sin is least you know what it is to be the righteousness of God in Christ. Christ meaning to be gods anointed, Christ in you, you anointed of God no different at all from the anointing Jesus was of. If you are different from him then you are not of the same God Jesus was of.

When one is like the Father of it by His Spirit be your spirit and in His same image as Jesus was, only then can you know the difference from sin and righteousness to be as He is. Until one is born of God -- sin, separation from Him to be as He is will be an effort to overcome of yourself, and you will fail miserably trying, instead of giving it over to God for Him to deal with which sets you free from sin.
Spoiler alert!!....The answer is “NO”….Can a Christian achieve sinless perfection? https://carm.org/can-a-christian-achieve-sinless-perfection
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Spoiler alert!!....The answer is “NO”….Can a Christian achieve sinless perfection? https://carm.org/can-a-christian-achieve-sinless-perfection
I see' so Jesus lied and was only joking in his commandment that to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in haven is perfect in Matt 5:48 ?

And John liked in 1 John 3:9? ANd when you see Him as H eis ye shall belike Him?

Isnt the real issue is you haven't seen Him? FO if you were like Him you would know what His perfection is.

If Jesus ever gave you a command he could not enable you to fulfill then he would be a liar and evidently to you he is a liar.

Fact is you do not follow the way of Jesus Christ to have His same mind, same SPirit, walk as He walks in His same light and all is a farce for you.

Right? for your very comment confirms in your rebellion against him in his ways for perfection in the Father who is God. You defend the atheists outlook about him.

If you are going to claim to be of Christ you should at least act like it instead of commenting about a subject you know noting of making yourself look more foolish.
 
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