Sin that leads to death

civic

Well-known member
We are pretty much on the same page, except I see Jesus' life a little differently. You have the renewing of the mind at 30 years of age, therefore would have sinned before that. Did you mean to infer that? I believe the renewing of the mind has to do when we receive the seed of the Father. Jesus was conceived with it, therefore never sinned, and could astound them at 12 years of age, because He knew what the scriptures actually meant. For us that is the born again experience. What the Holy Spirit did in Him at age 30 was give Him back His power to heal with signs and wonders. That is what Pentecostals believe to be the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the second baptism, however I believe we must be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be born again. I refer to the second filling as the release of the Holy Spirit. Acts 4:29-31. (Note that is after they had already experienced the Day of Pentecost)

29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

When reborn we no longer have the old desire to sin, and can flee temptations. Jesus was born with that. And with the release of power we can do all the things that Jesus did in His ministry. Mark 16:16-18.
kenneth copeland heresy described perfectly, thanks for confessing another false teaching about Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Your list of false teaching just keep on piling up on a daily basis.
 

Nic

Well-known member
kenneth copeland heresy described perfectly, thanks for confessing another false teaching about Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Your list of false teaching just keep on piling up on a daily basis.
There are likely workshops, seminars and extra biblical books prescribing her witchcraft. 🧙‍♀️
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
We are pretty much on the same page, except I see Jesus' life a little differently. You have the renewing of the mind at 30 years of age, therefore would have sinned before that. Did you mean to infer that?
He was made to be sin by identification with the law, he was made to be the righteousness of God by His SPirit. All are sinners ny law but all who is born of God, born again, cannot soin, impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9
I believe the renewing of the mind has to do when we receive the seed of the Father.
For me it isnt a belief at all it is the manifestation of God in me. God revealed. And 1 John 3 when we see Him as He is ye shall be like Him which isnt a belief at all.
Jesus was conceived with it, therefore never sinned, and could astound them at 12 years of age, because He knew what the scriptures actually meant. For us that is the born again experience.
Same SPirit who came to Mary is the same Spirit who came to Adam and he became like Him, Gen 3:22, same Spirit who came to Abraham, same Spirit who came to Moses, same SPirit who came to 120 and is the same Spirit who came to Jesus ad opened all of His heaven to all of these. And it is the same SPirit who does the same in all today who has received Him.
One cant know Him or His heaven without Him manifest in you. Most only know about Him from what they read or what someone said about Him.
What the Holy Spirit did in Him at age 30 was give Him back His power to heal with signs and wonders.
Actually God opened up a knowledge to Jesus he didnt have prior just as He does in us all who receives the same from Him.
That is what Pentecostals believe to be the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or the second baptism, however I believe we must be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be born again. I refer to the second filling as the release of the Holy Spirit. Acts 4:29-31. (Note that is after they had already experienced the Day of Pentecost, Acts 1:8)
Second filling? There is only one manifestation from God Himself be in you.
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Yes same thing happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16 by the same Spirit in these.
When reborn we no longer have the old desire to sin, and can flee temptations.
Sin is to be separated from God, killing stealing chasing the neighbors wife is only result from that sin of separation from Him.
Jesus was born with that.
Jesus was born under the law, made of a woman. He didnt know Gods SPirit until god opened it to him. We are no different.
And with the release of power we can do all the things that Jesus did in His ministry. Mark 16:16-18.
Agreed.
Gary, praise God for you! It is refreshing to converse with someone with the same spirit. That is what Jesus wanted in John 17 when He told the Father He wanted all of us - Jesus, the Father, the Spirit and each one of His brethren to be one.
Thanks and yes the way of the Father is for us to be as His example sent to have and walk as He walks in His same light as Jesus did.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
kenneth copeland heresy described perfectly, thanks for confessing another false teaching about Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Your list of false teaching just keep on piling up on a daily basis.
Same false teachings Jesus taught by the same as you who didnt believe him either.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
He was made to be sin by identification with the law, he was made to be the righteousness of God by His SPirit. All are sinners ny law but all who is born of God, born again, cannot soin, impossible to be in sin. 1 John 3:9
You still didn't say whether He had a renewed mind at 30 or if He was born with it. He was born under the law, but that doesn't make you a sinner unless you break it. He was Lord of it. The law shows us our sin. What if He didn't have any? You seem to be saying that just because of when He was born, sin was imputed to Him. That would disqualify Him from being the perfect sacrifice without blemish.

Just as Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath, He was Lord of the Law. He wasn't subject to it, His finger wrote it; it was in Him.

For me it isnt a belief at all it is the manifestation of God in me. God revealed. And 1 John 3 when we see Him as He is ye shall be like Him which isnt a belief at all.

Yes, I agree and know what you are talking about. I too agree it is not just "belief" but experience, and "manifestation" is a great word.

Same SPirit who came to Mary is the same Spirit who came to Adam and he became like Him, Gen 3:22, same Spirit who came to Abraham, same Spirit who came to Moses, same SPirit who came to 120 and is the same Spirit who came to Jesus ad opened all of His heaven to all of these. And it is the same SPirit who does the same in all today who has received Him.
One cant know Him or His heaven without Him manifest in you. Most only know about Him from what they read or what someone said about Him.

Yes, all true Christians are born again when they receive the Holy Spirit inside of them, not just on the outside drawing them.

Actually God opened up a knowledge to Jesus he didnt have prior just as He does in us all who receives the same from Him.

I disagree for the important part. I'll stick with the power of the Spirit for signs and wonders. I don't believe the fanciful writings of his youth of supernatural powers, not that you do. LOL However, while He preached and performed signs and wonders, He only did (and said) what He heard the Father say in heaven. That may be what you are talking about, but I don't believe He didn't and couldn't already know.

Second filling? There is only one manifestation from God Himself be in you.

Do you realize that it was the same people who received the Spirit in Acts 2, who received signs and wonders when the place was filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 4:29-31? We are also to pray to interpret (a different gift and manifestation of the Spirit). This is why I call it release of power from the one Spirit, rather than "second filling" as Pentecostals say. Anointing may be another word.

Yes same thing happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16 by the same Spirit in these.

That is a good parallel of the release of power of Acts 4 for ministry and boldness. However, just as Jesus was born with the Seed of the Father, we are born again as the 120 in Acts 2, and the apostles in John 20 when Jesus blew His Spirit into them. But they still had to wait in Jerusalem for Acts 1:8 which happened in Acts 2. There were two whatever you want to call it that happened for ministry. Not everyone believes in the gifts for ministry and don't receive the second of the two. But that doesn't mean they are not born again (the first).

Apostles:
1. John 20 (born again and freed from sin)
2. Acts 2 (ministry gifts for the profit of all)

120:
1. Acts 2 (born again and freed from sin, also individual signs of Mark 16:16-18)
2. Acts 4 (ministry gifts for the profit of all)

Jesus was born under the law, made of a woman. He didnt know Gods SPirit until god opened it to him. We are no different.

Already answered. But to add, it was like the Acts 4 filling. But He was already born with the power over sin that equates to us being born again of the Spirit.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You still didn't say whether He had a renewed mind at 30 or if He was born with it. He was born under the law, but that doesn't make you a sinner unless you break it. He was Lord of it. The law shows us our sin. What if He didn't have any? You seem to be saying that just because of when He was born, sin was imputed to Him. That would disqualify Him from being the perfect sacrifice without blemish.
Jesus was made to be sin because of him being flesh, a man, son of man, and by identification with flesh. As far as him having a renewed mind, how would you describe him coming into information that he did not have prior? Would not God opening up to him Himself and His heaven as a renewing of the mind? Coming to a place of enlightenment he did not have prior? In all practicality information is a renewing is it not?
Just as Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath, He was Lord of the Law. He wasn't subject to it, His finger wrote it; it was in Him.
Lord of the sabbath? He was crucified for breaking the laws for it. A blasphemer, a sinner for breaking those laws. The law is not of God the law is for beliefs systems about Him.
Yes, I agree and know what you are talking about. I too agree it is not just "belief" but experience, and "manifestation" is a great word.
Not many share our experience with God LOL.
Yes, all true Christians are born again when they receive the Holy Spirit inside of them, not just on the outside drawing them.
In religious circles, (denominations) Born again is just a word with no meaning in reality. It comes from the laws of lips but no intent to live the life of God in His anointing as Jesus did, which is Christ in you. And to have that same anointing is impossible for these and the laws they have implemented where it is impossible to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
I disagree for the important part. I'll stick with the power of the Spirit for signs and wonders. I don't believe the fanciful writings of his youth of supernatural powers, not that you do. LOL However, while He preached and performed signs and wonders, He only did (and said) what He heard the Father say in heaven. That may be what you are talking about, but I don't believe He didn't and couldn't already know.
If you do not believe that God came to Jesus by His SPirit and opened to him all of His heaven to Jesus by His Spirit as stated in Matt 3:16, then I understand why you disagree.

At that moment Jesus life changed from teaching the laws of the temple to teaching the Spirit of God at work. And when you look at that transformation from the law to SPirit you will see the very ones Jesus taught even at a young age are the very ones who has him crucified for blaspheme of their laws.

As for me I have to conclude that God really did open up a knowledge Jesus didnt have prior. And the reason I have to believe that is because He did the very same in me. So by identification in myself with what happened in Jesus is reality not a belief.
Do you realize that it was the same people who received the Spirit in Acts 2, who received signs and wonders when the place was filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 4:29-31? We are also to pray to interpret (a different gift and manifestation of the Spirit). This is why I call it release of power from the one Spirit, rather than "second filling" as Pentecostals say. Anointing may be another word.
Abraham received the same SPirit of God Jesus did. Moses received the same Spirit, even Adam received His knowledge and became like Him to know this difference as well, Gen 3:22, Mary received this same Spirit that Jesus received, 120 in an upper room receieve this same Spirit. -- And so did I. And so does all who has received His same mind and walk as He walks in it just as all of these did.

God never has changed on inkling and He will be the same tomorrow in anyone who will receieve the same from Him as all of these did.
That is a good parallel of the release of power of Acts 4 for ministry and boldness. However, just as Jesus was born with the Seed of the Father, we are born again as the 120 in Acts 2, and the apostles in John 20 when Jesus blew His Spirit into them. But they still had to wait in Jerusalem for Acts 1:8 which happened in Acts 2. There were two whatever you want to call it that happened for ministry. Not everyone believes in the gifts for ministry and don't receive the second of the two. But that doesn't mean they are not born again (the first).
But Jesus was not born with that knowledge where God came to him by His Spirit and opened to him. For had he that knowledge from birth there would have been no need at all for Matt 3:16 to be written at all.

Born again is a renewing of a new heaven and earth opened to you. The old old man of the law passes away and the new man who is anointed of God -- all things become new. And in that renewing when one actually sees Him as He is are like Him. 1 John 3. When you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him.

That is what it is to be born again, self scarified and God Himself becoming your own disposition. And without that sacrifice, there is no born again to be had.
Apostles:
1. John 20 (born again and freed from sin)
And 1 John 3 :9 we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin, for He takes away the sins of this world.
2. Acts 2 (ministry gifts for the profit of all)

120:
1. Acts 2 (born again and freed from sin, also individual signs of Mark 16:16-18)
2. Acts 4 (ministry gifts for the profit of all)
The same signs follow those who are born of God that followed Jesus.
Already answered. But to add, it was like the Acts 4 filling. But He was already born with the power over sin that equates to us being born again of the Spirit.
People confuse the man Jesus with the Christ which is Gods anointing. Christ is not a man but is the disposition the man who is anointed of God. Jesus was Christ because he was Gods anointed. And with Christ in you it is the same anointing Jesus walked in. We are Christs and Christ is Gods.

Religious minds tend to see it as with Jesus is in them, which is impossible and cant relate to have the same anointing from God Jesus basked in themselves. And to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is prefect that he commands of us is impossible for these as it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle.

People for the most part do not have a clue what it is to be in Christ. All they see and relate to is a man as a god and cannot relate to the God who was in that man.

The religious minded comes to me with the demand that I believe this and believe that and I must do this and do that.
The Spiritual minded come to me with the demand that I square my life with the standards of Jesus to have the same mind of God he had in himself anointed of God himself.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Jesus was made to be sin because of him being flesh, a man, son of man, and by identification with flesh. As far as him having a renewed mind, how would you describe him coming into information that he did not have prior? Would not God opening up to him Himself and His heaven as a renewing of the mind? Coming to a place of enlightenment he did not have prior? In all practicality information is a renewing is it not?

But I don't see that written anywhere, and the fact He astounded them at 12 years old leads me to believe He knew the Old Testament. No where does it say what He did NOT know.

Lord of the sabbath? He was crucified for breaking the laws for it. A blasphemer, a sinner for breaking those laws. The law is not of God the law is for beliefs systems about Him.

He only broke the Sabbath according to the Pharisees, not according to God. He was falsely accused. He was innocent.

Not many share our experience with God LOL.

I know. It saddens me that they don't want it either.

In religious circles, (denominations) Born again is just a word with no meaning in reality. It comes from the laws of lips but no intent to live the life of God in His anointing as Jesus did, which is Christ in you. And to have that same anointing is impossible for these and the laws they have implemented where it is impossible to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

I've seen that too. This pretty much tells what happens when we are born again of the Spirit.

Romans 8:
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

1 John 3:5
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

2 Peter 1:2-4
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

If you do not believe that God came to Jesus by His SPirit and opened to him all of His heaven to Jesus by His Spirit as stated in Matt 3:16, then I understand why you disagree.

Matt 3:16 says what was opened to Him was that He SAW the Spirit come down on Him. I believe He was empowered. You believe that meant knowledge. Could be, but that isn't what it says for either of us (knowledge or empowerment). But we both agree that He was made ready for His ministry to begin, and that is the most important thing to agree on.

As for me I have to conclude that God really did open up a knowledge Jesus didnt have prior. And the reason I have to believe that is because He did the very same in me. So by identification in myself with what happened in Jesus is reality not a belief.

I understand. But what I experienced was the complete victory over sin, plus all the gifts but two. Knowledge keeps coming, but I didn't receive it all at once 44 years ago as you did. The Lord had already been preparing me for quite a few years beforehand by opening my mind that Seventh-day Adventists didn't have the whole Truth at 23 years old. Then I was Church of Christ for a year, but with my newly open mind, I quickly saw they didn't have the whole truth either. So from the opening of my mind to when I was born again and filled with the Spirit was about 7 years. Sometimes we have to unlearn a lot before we can be baptized in the Spirit. But as far as knowledge, the last 20 years has been expenentially faster growing in knowledge than the first 24 years, with an explotion of knowledge in the last 5 years.

So you haven't had to learn anything new?

Abraham received the same SPirit of God Jesus did. Moses received the same Spirit, even Adam received His knowledge and became like Him to know this difference as well, Gen 3:22, Mary received this same Spirit that Jesus received, 120 in an upper room receieve this same Spirit. -- And so did I. And so does all who has received His same mind and walk as He walks in it just as all of these did.

God never has changed on inkling and He will be the same tomorrow in anyone who will receieve the same from Him as all of these did.

I'm not talking about a "different" Spirit. I'm talking about a two-step experience for the apostles and the 120. And there can be further releases of power from the One Spirit even after that. They come in the form of revelations and new gifts.

But Jesus was not born with that knowledge where God came to him by His Spirit and opened to him. For had he that knowledge from birth there would have been no need at all for Matt 3:16 to be written at all.

Born again is a renewing of a new heaven and earth opened to you. The old old man of the law passes away and the new man who is anointed of God -- all things become new. And in that renewing when one actually sees Him as He is are like Him. 1 John 3. When you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him.

That is what it is to be born again, self scarified and God Himself becoming your own disposition. And without that sacrifice, there is no born again to be had.
I like your understanding too. I see Matt. 3:16 say the heavens opened up to us, and I understand that for myself as well. But what I teach is this.

I still see a two step process for Jesus as well.

1. He was born from the Seed of the Father and the righteousness of God was already written on His heart from birth. That is like our being born again with the seed of the Father. 1 John 3:9 having to do with righteousness.

2. When Baptized, He receive the power of the Holy Spirit for ministry. For us, that is the second experience of the Spirit for boldness and signs and wonders of Acts 4:29-31.

And 1 John 3 :9 we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin, for He takes away the sins of this world.
Yes, I agree and use that verse a lot, for sins of lawlessness. 1 John 3:4

The same signs follow those who are born of God that followed Jesus.

Yes. Mark 16 are for us as individuals, and 1 Cor. 12 are for corporate ministry.

People confuse the man Jesus with the Christ which is Gods anointing. Christ is not a man but is the disposition the man who is anointed of God. Jesus was Christ because he was Gods anointed. And with Christ in you it is the same anointing Jesus walked in. We are Christs and Christ is Gods.

Religious minds tend to see it as with Jesus is in them, which is impossible and cant relate to have the same anointing from God Jesus basked in themselves. And to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is prefect that he commands of us is impossible for these as it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle.

People for the most part do not have a clue what it is to be in Christ. All they see and relate to is a man as a god and cannot relate to the God who was in that man.

The religious minded comes to me with the demand that I believe this and believe that and I must do this and do that.
The Spiritual minded come to me with the demand that I square my life with the standards of Jesus to have the same mind of God he had in himself anointed of God himself.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could be the Holy Spirit for a day with a sledge hammer and open some minds on these forums? LOL Having an open mind is the greatest gift He gave me so I could actually become born again.
 

rossh

Well-known member
In another thread @CharismaticLady made the distinction between sin that leads to death as it being sin that breaks the 10 commandments and sin that does not break the 10 Commandments, but that trespasses against God.

She alludes to the Lords prayer where we are taught to pray "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." Forgiveness of our trespass is thus dependent on our forgiving others their trespass against us.

Further, she states that we are able not to sin:
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Looking at the passages in context:
16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

If anyone sees his brother (Brother in Christ?) committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask (on behalf of this brother) and God will give him life- those brothers who commit sins that do not lead to death..

A couple of observations:
I do not think "brother" here refers to those already saved, or brothers in Christ, as the prayer will lead to God giving that "brother" life.
God having to give someone life, denotes that "Life" was not given before. (John equates Life, with Jesus- 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—)

If someone want's to argue loss of salvation and restoration to salvation, then they would have to negate:
"It is impossible.... 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

There is sin that leads to death; and John says one should not pray for that.

What is the unforgivable sin? Does it lead to death, or do you remain dead in your sin... Can the sin that leads to death be anything but the unforgivable sin and can those who are born again believers commit the unforgivable sin, or is the unforgivable sin rejection of the Holy Spirit by denying Him.

Not all sin prevents you from being reconciled to God, and pray for those who commit these sins, and God will restore them. There is a sin that prevents one from being reconciled to God.
Those that are reconciled to God, do not keep on sinning, because Christ protects them and the evil one does not touch the reconciled child of God.

Therefore, looking at the context, I do not agree with @CharismaticLady that breaking the "Royal Law" as a born again believer is the sin that leads to death.
Only blasphemy of the Holy Spirit leads to death, and the passage in 1 John should be read with a hemaneutic, taking all of scripture in mind.

All born again believers do trespass and need to repent, and forgive and we should strive to live our lives without sinning. Living in the Spirit at all times, thereby not satisfying the lusts of the flesh. This is not an impossibility, as scripture is clear that we are no longer slaves to sin, so we can overcome every sin and we should endeavor to live in that victory.

18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

The righteousness of Christ covers all sin for those who have been made righteous by faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and by confessing that He was raised from the dead.
I do mostly agree with you Manfred, and, not that you need me to agree with you at all.. I do believe that we all need to just simply go back to the very beginning, as, that is where it all started. Normally I do not mention " names here, " per se, but, Pastor Mike Holohan has 3 very wonderful and informative lectures on the initial problems with mankind. My words there.
If we truly believe in the very Purity and Glory and Perfection of God, in so much as God can not even " look upon " imperfection, then we need to see the problem with Adam.. Adam proved that he was less than perfect...and therefore, seeing as we are all from Adam, we too have imperfection of mind soul and spirit.
But, not to worry, God knows the end, right from the beginning God has saved us in advance... That is, if we truly believe and trust that and confess the same, by mouth/word to our fellow worshipers .. All churches that teach this are truly of the messiah, and also they will of course teach salvation and healing. Salvation and healing are the two major issues that the Messiah taught and performed.. Who teaches these issues today ?
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Adam proved that he was less than perfect...and therefore, seeing as we are all from Adam, we too have imperfection of mind soul and spirit.

But that is WHY Jesus died for us. When we are born again of His Spirit we can be just like Him. He was the first of many brethren. Was Jesus a sinner? No. Have you been born again? Literally? Not just a title.
 

rossh

Well-known member
But that is WHY Jesus died for us. When we are born again of His Spirit we can be just like Him. He was the first of many brethren. Was Jesus a sinner? No. Have you been born again? Literally? Not just a title.
Yes, but it was ONLY Yeshua Himself, who could have been the sinless and pure sacrifice..
But that is WHY Jesus died for us. When we are born again of His Spirit we can be just like Him. He was the first of many brethren. Was Jesus a sinner? No. Have you been born again? Literally? Not just a title.
Well, good post from you. However,, when I see the " born again " phrase then I get concerned about one of those many cults.

It is always the simplest of issues that get destroyed by cults and people who do not understand the ease of Gods Word. God did not give us His Word to confuse us, as many seem to think. Gods Word is Life and everlasting life with God. Those who choose to not believe, never will. God however may Himself do something about that Himself ?
Nakdimon was born again but did not know of it, at the time when he spoke to Yeshua, nor did he understand the true meaning of being " born again ".
John 3.. How ever it is the Spirit in us and our mindset that has to be and will be reborn, not the physical rebirth..
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Yes, but it was ONLY Yeshua Himself, who could have been the sinless and pure sacrifice..
Of course, but He died first. No one else could. But He died, so we COULD be like Him. He empowered us with His sinless Spirit.

When I speak of being reborn it is from receiving the Holy Spirit. I am clueless about any cults misusing the phrase "born again." What has to be born again is our nature. We were born with a carnal nature. The Spirit creates a new nature in us that partakes of the divine nature of God by the power of the Holy Spirit. It happens supernaturally, but is an experience, not something secretly imputed.

Read 2 Peter 1:2-4 our of 2-11.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Actually it WAS a question. Why do YOU still commit SIN???
That is an assumption I DO commit willful sins of lawlessness. Thus an accusation, and a baseless indictment. You see I do believe in holiness, because that is what Jesus taught, and provided for us with His death. 1 John 3:5; John 8:32-36
 
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Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
That is an assumption
Nope it's a simple FACT. You are human, and consequently you SIN, just like me and everybody else.

If you're Born Again by FAITH, and have been maturing in the faith, then you will sin LESS as time goes on, as the Holy Spirit changes you, and hopefully you continue to render the "Old Man" progressively more and more ineffective in your life.

OF course by FAITH, you and me are, and continue to be, PERFECT in Jesus in God's sight. But the ONLY Perfection either of us will ever have is Jesus' perfection by FAITH
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
But I don't see that written anywhere, and the fact He astounded them at 12 years old leads me to believe He knew the Old Testament. No where does it say what He did NOT know.
Many years ago I had youth in my class 12 years old who could teach the law as well as any seasoned preacher, that is noting extraordinary. And you can read in Matt 3:16 where God actually did come to Jesus and opened up to him All of His heaven. If Jesus already had that information then wouldn't God have been wasting His time with it and no need to even write about it?
He only broke the Sabbath according to the Pharisees, not according to God. He was falsely accused. He was innocent.
That is what I said, he was a sinner by law, not by Gods Spirit.
I know. It saddens me that they don't want it either.



I've seen that too. This pretty much tells what happens when we are born again of the Spirit.

Romans 8:
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

1 John 3:5
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

2 Peter 1:2-4
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.



Matt 3:16 says what was opened to Him was that He SAW the Spirit come down on Him. I believe He was empowered. You believe that meant knowledge. Could be, but that isn't what it says for either of us (knowledge or empowerment). But we both agree that He was made ready for His ministry to begin, and that is the most important thing to agree on.
I see it as God opening up all of His heaven to Jesus by identification with the same in myself.
I understand. But what I experienced was the complete victory over sin, plus all the gifts but two.
I did not have victory over sin, God took away my sin.
Knowledge keeps coming, but I didn't receive it all at once 44 years ago as you did. The Lord had already been preparing me for quite a few years beforehand by opening my mind that Seventh-day Adventists didn't have the whole Truth at 23 years old. Then I was Church of Christ for a year, but with my newly open mind, I quickly saw they didn't have the whole truth either. So from the opening of my mind to when I was born again and filled with the Spirit was about 7 years. Sometimes we have to unlearn a lot before we can be baptized in the Spirit. But as far as knowledge, the last 20 years has been expenentially faster growing in knowledge than the first 24 years, with an explotion of knowledge in the last 5 years.

So you haven't had to learn anything new?
Nothing new related to His SPirit and WHo God is, he manifest Himself in me to have His same mind. But I have learned a lot about others experiences with their gods and their laws to regulate their beliefs about a god -- in comparison.
I'm not talking about a "different" Spirit. I'm talking about a two-step experience for the apostles and the 120. And there can be further releases of power from the One Spirit even after that. They come in the form of revelations and new gifts.
The revelation of the Christ is Christ revealed, Gods anointing coming to maturity that I be like Him no different at all from what Jesus had of Him. It took Jesus about 30 years to come to that maturity And it took me about the same, I was 27 when God reveled Himself in me. That was in November of 1974. The great and notable day of the Lord.
I like your understanding too. I see Matt. 3:16 say the heavens opened up to us, and I understand that for myself as well. But what I teach is this.

I still see a two step process for Jesus as well.

1. He was born from the Seed of the Father and the righteousness of God was already written on His heart from birth. That is like our being born again with the seed of the Father. 1 John 3:9 having to do with righteousness.

2. When Baptized, He receive the power of the Holy Spirit for ministry. For us, that is the second experience of the Spirit for boldness and signs and wonders of Acts 4:29-31.
I see only one process from God and that was when He manifest Himself and opened up all of His heaven, all of those little books for what they really are about. They are about me and who I am, the whole book is about who we are or are not in Him. And if one cant fond his name written in there, then one is not looking at it with the light of having Gods mind, or SPirit as the mind is called.

For me it happened in the twinkling of an eye, all things became new, a new heaven and earth was reveled, old things passed away and I became a new creature by Gods anointing, which is Christ in me. It isnt someting that I graduated into, it was a gift that I received from God Himself, same one Jesus receieve in Matt 3:16.

I dont get more and more of Gods Mind, Spirit, either one has His Spirit as your own mind or one doesnt have Hissame mind, Spirit.
Yes, I agree and use that verse a lot, for sins of lawlessness. 1 John 3:4



Yes. Mark 16 are for us as individuals, and 1 Cor. 12 are for corporate ministry.



Wouldn't it be nice if we could be the Holy Spirit for a day with a sledge hammer and open some minds on these forums? LOL Having an open mind is the greatest gift He gave me so I could actually become born again.
When I read some of the comments from religious mind so dominant in this forum, they are so dead set in being right with their own beliefs for a god that is bound by the laws that regulates that beliefs. Their mind is locked in a dead zone for advancement and wont even consider someting new that might contradict their belief systems they creed to and can not advance to a knowledge they are ignorant of.

In that if the Spirit of God detects in me anything that is wrong, He does not ask me to put it right, He asks that I accept His light and He will put it right.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Nope it's a simple FACT. You are human, and consequently you SIN, just like me and everybody else.

If you're Born Again by FAITH, and have been maturing in the faith, then you will sin LESS as time goes on, as the Holy Spirit changes you, and hopefully you continue to render the "Old Man" progressively more and more ineffective in your life.

OF course by FAITH, you and me are, and continue to be, PERFECT in Jesus in God's sight. But the ONLY Perfection either of us will ever have is Jesus' perfection by FAITH

You mean non-existent by faith.

Just admit it Bob .....

That is not your hope.

But something someone tried to give you.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
You mean non-existent by faith.

Just admit it Bob .....

That is not your hope.

But something someone tried to give you.
Correction: Something that "Someone" DID give me (eph 2 8,9) FAITH is gifted by GOD. When HE speaks to you, you can take it to the bank.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Correction: Something that "Someone" DID give me (eph 2 8,9) FAITH is gifted by GOD. When HE speaks to you, you can take it to the bank.
Actually faith is an act of works. Faith will manifest anything you are determined to produce. Want to see God revealed? There is your answer. Waiting for Gods kingdom to come is not faith, that is hope.
 
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