Sin that leads to death

[CharismaticLady]

Nope it's a simple FACT. You are human, and consequently you SIN, just like me and everybody else.

If you're Born Again by FAITH, and have been maturing in the faith, then you will sin LESS as time goes on, as the Holy Spirit changes you, and hopefully you continue to render the "Old Man" progressively more and more ineffective in your life.

OF course by FAITH, you and me are, and continue to be, PERFECT in Jesus in God's sight. But the ONLY Perfection either of us will ever have is Jesus' perfection by FAITH

I know you believe in the gifts, but are you a member of a particular denomination that taught you this? Do you believe this sinning less as time goes by called sanctification? Is sanctification the process of overcoming sin? I'm asking you, because in many ways we believe alike, but I'm wondering if most "Pentecostals" teach this. I don't belong to a denomination anymore, but when I was I wasn't taught this. I don't know if I skipped that Sunday or Wednesday, but I never heard it until these forums. I don't see it in the Word.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Faith will manifest anything you are determined to produce.

OK - go cast a mountain into the sea - go clean out your local hospital. Be sure to let the media know, so we can all watch.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I did not have victory over sin, God took away my sin.

You're right; it sure wasn't done by me. I know that, just misspoke, but thanks for catching it. I believe the same as you. I actually felt lighter, as if I could float. Sinning is actually a burden, and suddenly it was gone. Having a clear conscience makes life so much easier, with no shame from sinning with no control over it. Does a particular denomination teach what we know?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I know you believe in the gifts, but are you a member of a particular denomination that taught you this? Do you believe this sinning less as time goes by called sanctification? Is sanctification the process of overcoming sin? I'm asking you, because in many ways we believe alike, but I'm wondering if most "Pentecostals" teach this. I don't belong to a denomination anymore, but when I was I wasn't taught this. I don't know if I skipped that Sunday or Wednesday, but I never heard it until these forums. I don't see it in the Word.

For MOST of the last 58 years I and my Family have been members, and occasionally leaders, in the local churches across 5 States of the Assemblies of God Denomination, with a sojourn among the Charismatics during the '70s during the outpouring which SIGNIFICANTLY modified my uderstandings, and "non-Denominationalized" me. Folks like Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Malcom Smith, Charles Schmitt, Don Basham, Ern Baxter, Charles Simpson, etc. were the teachers, in those years. When the Outpouring ended in the late '70s (as all "times of refreshing" do), I went back into the Assemblies of God, where myself and my family have been since the late '80s. The "CHarismatic moverment" tried to keep the "Outpouring" going, but couldn't, of course. Some of 'em stayed "straight" and some of 'em went off the deep end (like Hobart freeman, and Victor Weirwille in our area)

That a person "matures" in the faith is intrinsic. When one is saved, they actually know NOTHING of "the kingdom of God" which suddenly became visible to them, and the Bib;e says to "Take MY YOKE upon you, and learn of ME" (Mat 11:29) - so OBVIOUSLY there's a process involved, Ephesians 4 tells the same story - the five-fold ministry to the Church, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:13).

SO for the rest of my life, I'll probably stick with the AG, unless God pulls a fast one (as He's done before), and plants us somewhere else.

 

[CharismaticLady]

For MOST of the last 58 years I and my Family have been members, and occasionally leaders, in the local churches across 5 States of the Assemblies of God Denomination, with a sojourn among the Charismatics during the '70s during the outpouring which SIGNIFICANTLY modified my uderstandings, and "non-Denominationalized" me. Folks like Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Malcom Smith, Charles Schmitt, Don Basham, Ern Baxter, Charles Simpson, etc. were the teachers, in those years. When the Outpouring ended in the late '70s (as all "times of refreshing" do), I went back into the Assemblies of God, where myself and my family have been since the late '80s. The "CHarismatic moverment" tried to keep the "Outpouring" going, but couldn't, of course. Some of 'em stayed "straight" and some of 'em went off the deep end (like Hobart freeman, and Victor Weirwille in our area)

That a person "matures" in the faith is intrinsic. When one is saved, they actually know NOTHING of "the kingdom of God" which suddenly became visible to them, and the Bib;e says to "Take MY YOKE upon you, and learn of ME" (Mat 11:29) - so OBVIOUSLY there's a process involved, Ephesians 4 tells the same story - the five-fold ministry to the Church, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:13).

SO for the rest of my life, I'll probably stick with the AG, unless God pulls a fast one (as He's done before), and plants us somewhere else.

Thanks Bob. I first learned that the gifts were "for today" back in 1971 while corresponding with a fellow artist who was in that outpouring you were talking about. I had been what is called a Cessationist until that time, but I know it was God who revealed to me that 1 Corinthians 13 wasn't talking about an early ceasing of the gifts, but that they won't cease until we see Jesus FACE TO FACE. I was shocked, but convinced by Cessationist husband also. But it wasn't until September, 1976 that I started going to Church on the Way, a Foursquare Church in Van Nuys, CA headed by Dr. Jack Hayford. I was alone as I became divorced in 75. Then in February, 1977 I experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit and was completely Spirit filled, saw a vision, and heard God's voice for the first of many times, and received all but two gifts of the Spirit. But the next day I noticed I had no desire to sin, which I had been battling for months in a particular willful sin of lawlessness. So I guess I was at the tail end of that outpouring, but it was intense. I find it interesting that the spiritual experiences and expression of the Spirit dwindled at the churches I was at later when I moved from California to Arizona. The only Spirit-filled denomination there was an AoG. And now here in Tennessee, the closest one is also AoG. But the Spirit seemed to be very silent in both places. You seemed to explain it well. Do you think there will ever be another wave? I sure do miss being part of a church where the glory of God is so present. What did you think of the "Toronto Blessing" and Brownsville, etc. Those seem to be past now too. I wasn't involved. My 1977 experience contradicted the WoF people, so never got too involved after wetting my feet, but I have friends who are still in it, and keep in touch with one of them who is receptive to my teaching, but not the other one.

Yesterday was the first time I've been back to the AoG close to my house after leaving it years ago after a prophetic dream about it. But got a phone call that the pastor there retired in January, so thought I'd see if I am to go back, or if God will direct me away from it again. I also want to write to Pastor Jack (Hayford) about the Spirit-Filled NKJV that he was the main editor of. I saw something written in comments that I'm having a huge problem with and want to ask him if he overlooked it, or agreed with it. I'll be shocked if he agreed.

Anyway, it was nice to finally have a pleasant conversation with you. And thanks for the information.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Do you think there will ever be another wave?

I ASSUME (you know how dangerous THAT IS) That there will be several (maybe many) more before the mature church in Eph 4 comes into existence. I ALSO expect that the future will NOT be particularly pleasant as things will become much darker as prophesied.

When I was YOUNG back in the 40s people who WERE NOT Christians still looked up to them and sensed that The Christians were on the "Right side of things". Then gradually the Christians became the ones who were "Delusional", fools, and misled.

But the time is coming when Christians, and Christian influence are seen as DANGEROUS to society (Hillary Clinton already hinted at that), and THEN the CHURCH will HAVE to come together, and the Religious "Tares" will find it expedient to leave for their own temporal survival. Who the "Tares" are, is likely to surprise many. The REAL Church ALWAYS flourishes SPIRITUALLY in times of persecution.

What did you think of the "Toronto Blessing" and Brownsville, etc.

The Charismatic outpouring (~1964 - ~1978 or so) was a WORLD WIDE time of refreshing - revival. Toronto, and Brownsville, and a bunch of other smaller revivals were strictly LOCAL occurrences that I didn't pay much attention to, and "WoF" was an unfortunate "Rabbit trail" that taught "METHODS" - i.e. "If you do This, God will be FORCED to do that". The only thing missing was "FAITH". All they had was buckets of PRESUMPTION.

Dad Hagan (Former Assembly of God) had three BASIC Scriptures that He taught:
What IS FAITH?: Heb 11:1
How does FAITH COME?: Romans 10:17
How do you APPLY Faith?: Mark 11:22-24
Taken at the basic level, Hagan taught the absolute TRUTH - but as Derek Prince used to say: "I don't fear those that ATTACK me at all, but the one that really SCARE me are my imitators".

Hobart freeman (Faith Fellowship, Warsaw Indiana) took WoF farther than ANYBODY else, and would not allow any medical treatments, drugs, or Insurance of any kind in his congregation. The death toll in his congregation was well over 100 by the time he died of a simple treatable infection - "that God had healed him of by faith". There were also notable miracles that happened there in the '70s

Anyway, it was nice to finally have a pleasant conversation with you. And thanks for the information.

Revivals always produce a "Mixed bag" of results. The Pentecostal revival spawned many denominational groups, the two largest orthodox groups being the AG (Presently at 70,000,000 world wide - 3,000000 in the U.S.), and the COGIC (8,800,000 world wide, 5,000,000 in the U.S.) among primarily Black folks.

But there was also the "Oneness" hyperlegalistic McAlister bunch that became the UPCI (United Pentecostal Church International 5,000,000 members) and has some serious theological issues. The Assembly of God tossed 'em in 1916 by coming out as an officially TRINITARIAN denomination).

The Charismatic outpouring, however DID NOT "Denominationalize" like the Pentecostal revival did, and Charismatic churches tend to remain independant. I beliong to the Assemblies of God, as a member in good standing.

But the Assemblies of God doesn't define me theologically. I don't really CARE what their "Official line" is. but I do very much appreciate their MISSIONARY PROGRAM (the most productive in the World), so a good place to be (although their choice of music (Soft Rock 7-11 stuff) drives me straight up the wall).

 

[rossh]

Yes, but it was ONLY Yeshua Himself, who could have been the sinless and pure sacrifice..

Well, good post from you. However,, when I see the " born again " phrase then I get concerned about one of those many cults.

It is always the simplest of issues that get destroyed by cults and people who do not understand the ease of Gods Word. God did not give us His Word to confuse us, as many seem to think. Gods Word is Life and everlasting life with God. Those who choose to not believe, never will. God however may Himself do something about that Himself ?
Nakdimon was born again but did not know of it, at the time when he spoke to Yeshua, nor did he understand the true meaning of being " born again ".
John 3.. How ever it is the Spirit in us and our mindset that has to be and will be reborn, not the physical rebirth..

Of course, but He died first. No one else could. But He died, so we COULD be like Him. He empowered us with His sinless Spirit.

When I speak of being reborn it is from receiving the Holy Spirit. I am clueless about any cults misusing the phrase "born again." What has to be born again is our nature. We were born with a carnal nature. The Spirit creates a new nature in us that partakes of the divine nature of God by the power of the Holy Spirit. It happens supernaturally, but is an experience, not something secretly imputed.

Read 2 Peter 1:2-4 our of 2-11.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

well the cults in general use " catch phrases " a lot, and they have their victims cry " born again ",,, and not having any clues as to why ?
Anyway, I do not see Scripture saying that " He died so that we could be like him.. " He died so that we, mankind, could be saved!!
Adam, the first man, sinned... and as such he caused/allowed sin to enter the world and as sin was in the world so DEATH also came.. All those, one off sayings and or all those, " born again " type terms are useless, unless we follow Romans 10, and also being baptised as adults..
Yeshua, being totally innocent and NOT having the sin stain/blemish/nature of mankind went to Hell to release all those who already believed in Him. Yeshua preached God and preached Salvation by following his example...
When we pray and confess Yeshua in public, out aloud that Yeshua is my Lord and my Saviour. only then are we saved because we show our trust and belief in His having saved us..
Look at it this way. If you/we/I get a note in your/our letter Box, stating that there is a valuable parcel at the Post Office waiting for you, would you go ? So OK, you do truly believe that it is there, but that is where it will stay until you prove your trust and show your faith by actually going to the PO and asking for the Parcel.. . " I say to your all that Yeshua, God only begotten Son, is my Lord and my Saviour! " BTW, Yeshua is a common name in Israel but, only one is Gods real flesh and blood Son! Also at the same time, have you adult baptism.. Well I mean, even the messiah did that!

 

[Slyzr]

I ASSUME (you know how dangerous THAT IS) That there will be several (maybe many) more before the mature church in Eph 4 comes into existence. I ALSO expect that the future will NOT be particularly pleasant as things will become much darker as prophesied.

When I was YOUNG back in the 40s people who WERE NOT Christians still looked up to them and sensed that The Christians were on the "Right side of things". Then gradually the Christians became the ones who were "Delusional", fools, and misled.

But the time is coming when Christians, and Christian influence are seen as DANGEROUS to society (Hillary Clinton already hinted at that), and THEN the CHURCH will HAVE to come together, and the Religious "Tares" will find it expedient to leave for their own temporal survival. Who the "Tares" are, is likely to surprise many. The REAL Church ALWAYS flourishes SPIRITUALLY in times of persecution.

The Charismatic outpouring (~1964 - ~1978 or so) was a WORLD WIDE time of refreshing - revival. Toronto, and Brownsville, and a bunch of other smaller revivals were strictly LOCAL occurrences that I didn't pay much attention to, and "WoF" was an unfortunate "Rabbit trail" that taught "METHODS" - i.e. "If you do This, God will be FORCED to do that". The only thing missing was "FAITH". All they had was buckets of PRESUMPTION.

Dad Hagan (Former Assembly of God) had three BASIC Scriptures that He taught:
What IS FAITH?: Heb 11:1
How does FAITH COME?: Romans 10:17
How do you APPLY Faith?: Mark 11:22-24
Taken at the basic level, Hagan taught the absolute TRUTH - but as Derek Prince used to say: "I don't fear those that ATTACK me at all, but the one that really SCARE me are my imitators".

Hobart freeman (Faith Fellowship, Warsaw Indiana) took WoF farther than ANYBODY else, and would not allow any medical treatments, drugs, or Insurance of any kind in his congregation. The death toll in his congregation was well over 100 by the time he died of a simple treatable infection - "that God had healed him of by faith". There were also notable miracles that happened there in the '70s

Revivals always produce a "Mixed bag" of results. The Pentecostal revival spawned many denominational groups, the two largest orthodox groups being the AG (Presently at 70,000,000 world wide - 3,000000 in the U.S.), and the COGIC (8,800,000 world wide, 5,000,000 in the U.S.) among primarily Black folks.

But there was also the "Oneness" hyperlegalistic McAlister bunch that became the UPCI (United Pentecostal Church International 5,000,000 members) and has some serious theological issues. The Assembly of God tossed 'em in 1916 by coming out as an officially TRINITARIAN denomination).

The Charismatic outpouring, however DID NOT "Denominationalize" like the Pentecostal revival did, and Charismatic churches tend to remain independant. I beliong to the Assemblies of God, as a member in good standing.

But the Assemblies of God doesn't define me theologically. I don't really CARE what their "Official line" is. but I do very much appreciate their MISSIONARY PROGRAM (the most productive in the World), so a good place to be (although their choice of music (Soft Rock 7-11 stuff) drives me straight up the wall).

OM goodness bob .....

Not another Charismatic outpouring.

What are you going to do with that?


sigh ....

 

[Slyzr]

OK - go cast a mountain into the sea - go clean out your local hospital. Be sure to let the media know, so we can all watch.

LOL .......

"She has the gift's don't ya know"

bd

 

[rossh]

Of course, but He died first. No one else could. But He died, so we COULD be like Him. He empowered us with His sinless Spirit.

When I speak of being reborn it is from receiving the Holy Spirit. I am clueless about any cults misusing the phrase "born again." What has to be born again is our nature. We were born with a carnal nature. The Spirit creates a new nature in us that partakes of the divine nature of God by the power of the Holy Spirit. It happens supernaturally, but is an experience, not something secretly imputed.

Read 2 Peter 1:2-4 our of 2-11.

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Well, yes of course He had to DIE first of all but when He died He has not remained in Hell waiting for the end times. Hell could NOT hold Him as He was sinless and as He was sinless He was unlike us humans beings, ie' we who are from Adam.. He alone is form God The Father.

Romans 10:
6 Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend to heaven?'" that is, to bring the Messiah down -

7 or, "'Who will descend into Sh'ol?'" that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead.

8 What, then, does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. "l that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely,

9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered.

10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance.

11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

OM goodness bob .....

Not another Charismatic outpouring.

What are you going to do with that?


sigh ....

Why would there be "another Charismatic outpouring" (so called). Do you SERIOUSLY think that God is FINISHED sending revival to the church???

There have been times of refreshing/revivals all down through history. They all had different "names" and accomplished different things in the body. Did you ever hear of the Welsh revival, or the Northern Irish revival, the "Great Awakenings" - the REFORMATION???

 

[Gary Mac]

OK - go cast a mountain into the sea - go clean out your local hospital. Be sure to let the media know, so we can all watch.

Actually removing the mountain is the barrier that stands between you and God that keeps you from being as He is.

As far as hospitals, I am retired now but for many years I was clergy and went into countless hospitals tp pray and give hope to people helpless for hope, I spent many years in Cooks Children's Hospital just loving the children and parents of very sick children. Saw many healed, and saw many die.

I spent over 25 years going into just about every prison in Texas just loving those in need. I saw some saved and leave prison and start their own ministry, and saw some perish on death row in rejection of God.

So dont sit here and preach to me your own terrible mockery of what we are supposed to be and do in Christ from your evil spirit you portray and call it of God that you know nothing of for what it is to be in Him yourself that you learned from the AOGs.

 

[Gary Mac]

I know you believe in the gifts, but are you a member of a particular denomination that taught you this? Do you believe this sinning less as time goes by called sanctification? Is sanctification the process of overcoming sin? I'm asking you, because in many ways we believe alike, but I'm wondering if most "Pentecostals" teach this. I don't belong to a denomination anymore, but when I was I wasn't taught this. I don't know if I skipped that Sunday or Wednesday, but I never heard it until these forums. I don't see it in the Word.

I have been in both of these AOGs, Pentecostals, Baptists, my daughter went to Catholic schools, Ive been the Charismatic, non denominations, and the alike. I was deacon and elder, teacher, preacher, in many of these and just about all of these belief systems, But upon a day I came to the conclusion when God came and opened His heaven to me that they all have one thing in common. They all have their own ideas and beliefs for a god and they all make laws to regulate him to obey their beliefs of their gods that they may know him. And sadly it all boils down to enterprise for who is the best salesman of a belief -- wins the cigar.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I have been in both of these AOGs, Pentecostals, Baptists, my daughter went to Catholic schools, Ive been the Charismatic, non denominations, and the alike. I was deacon and elder, teacher, preacher, in many of these and just about all of these belief systems, But upon a day I came to the conclusion when God came and opened His heaven to me that they all have one thing in common. They all have their own ideas and beliefs for a god and they all make laws to regulate him to obey their beliefs of their gods that they may know him. And sadly it all boils down to enterprise for who is the best salesman of a belief -- wins the cigar.

It hurts my heart to see good men of God caught up in building empires and turning good fellowship churches into impersonal mega churches. I guess that is why I may go to a small denominational church for fellowship, but I hate errors in doctrine, and sometimes just stay home.

The closest thing I've found to a 1st century apostolic church is a tiny Charismatic Methodist Church. Instead of teaching that 1 John 1:8 is a Christian, they teach that 1 John 3:9 is a Christian. That I can relate to. But I'm too lonely there, always having to sit by myself.

Sunday I went to an AoG church for the first time in a few years ever since I had a dream from God about them and had to leave. But the music pastor from there emailed me to call him, as he has been the caretaker of two of my paintings of Christ they use for Christmas and Easter. He is leaving and will only be there part time and is going into Christian counseling. He also mentioned they have a new sr. pastor so I went on Sunday and may stay a while and see what God says next about it. I long to teach a class on holiness, and a closer walk with God, but I know my doctrines are unlike anything they've even heard of. If I feel led to stay I will sit down with them and go over what I believe. I picked up one of my paintings, and will pick up the other next week. They are quite large and I can only handle one at a time. They can still borrow them, but I just won't leave them there.

 

[rossh]

That is an assumption I DO commit willful sins of lawlessness. Thus an accusation, and a baseless indictment. You see I do believe in holiness, because that is what Jesus taught, and provided for us with His death. 1 John 3:5; John 8:32-36

5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and that there is no sin in him.

6 So no one who remains united with him continues sinning; everyone who does continue sinning has neither seen him nor known him.

7 Children, don't let anyone deceive you - it is the person that keeps on doing what is right who is righteous, just as God is righteous.

However, it the way that Yeshua did this is very important.. He was baptised so why do we even hesitate to do this as adults ? Infants can not even know that they are baptized.. The Jews had to sacrifice lambs, innocent little lambs...but they did this continuously and always seems to get things wrong...

 

[CharismaticLady]

"WoF" was an unfortunate "Rabbit trail" that taught "METHODS" - i.e. "If you do This, God will be FORCED to do that". The only thing missing was "FAITH". All they had was buckets of PRESUMPTION.

Yes, I agree. Out of the three of us, I left WoF which I was attracted to in the beginning, but the other two remained, and I've only been able to successfully teach one of them the difference between God being our servant, and us being His. The last one doesn't want to even talk religion with me, and now wants nothing to do with me.

I ASSUME (you know how dangerous THAT IS)

For us, or for the world? I'm not sure I understand.

The Charismatic outpouring, however DID NOT "Denominationalize" like the Pentecostal revival did, and Charismatic churches tend to remain independant. I beliong to the Assemblies of God, as a member in good standing.

I see the term Charismatic as one who is Spirit-filled and gifted. A Cessationist can be Spirit-filled which you must be to belong to Christ, but they do not believe that the gifts are part of our New Covenant, as if something can cease during the lifespan of any covenant. As in 1 Cor. 14:23, they are the "uninformed," not "unsaved."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

For us, or for the world? I'm not sure I understand.

The old saying about the word "Assume" is that it makes an ASS out of U, and ME - which makes "Assumptions" a dangerous thing. - WOF depends on false ASSUMPTIONS, which, if you're talking about secular matters, can COST you financially, and cause you embarrassment.

BUT if you're talking about PHYSICAL THINGS (like sicknesses), then people can, and DO die from lack of proper medical care.

A few years ago it seemed that there were stories every year about the "Faith filled" family, who didn't give their diabetic child his Insulin, because God had HEALED HIM of diabetes - of course killing him in the process. And then the WoF pastor would come and accuse the grieving family of murdering their child with their LACK OF FAITH!!!

I see the term Charismatic as one who is Spirit-filled and gifted. A Cessationist can be Spirit-filled which you must be to belong to Christ, but they do not believe that the gifts are part of our New Covenant, as if something can cease during the lifespan of any covenant. As in 1 Cor. 14:23, they are the "uninformed," not "unsaved."

Jesus told the disciples to hang around Jerusalem until they were "Endued with power from on high". Acts 2 was the fulfillment of that, and the "great controversy" is whether Acts 2 was the point at which the disciple received the Holy Spirit and were made Christians (instead of John 20:22 the evening of the Resurrection when Jesus "BREATHED ON THEM" saying "receive ye the Holy Spirit". When God BREATHES on somebody - there's an impartation.

And in any case the word "Enduement" is an EXTERNAL CLOTHING - specifically WITH power from on high. so the disciples in Acts 2 were already Born Again of the Spirit and indwelled by Him, which is what made them Christians. and Acts 2 is where the Holy Spirit CAME UPON the disciples (As He did in Old Testament folks - like Samson, and Elijah) - enduing them with POWER for ministry.

 

[Gary Mac]

It hurts my heart to see good men of God caught up in building empires and turning good fellowship churches into impersonal mega churches. I guess that is why I may go to a small denominational church for fellowship, but I hate errors in doctrine, and sometimes just stay home.

The closest thing I've found to a 1st century apostolic church is a tiny Charismatic Methodist Church. Instead of teaching that 1 John 1:8 is a Christian, they teach that 1 John 3:9 is a Christian. That I can relate to. But I'm too lonely there, always having to sit by myself.

Sunday I went to an AoG church for the first time in a few years ever since I had a dream from God about them and had to leave. But the music pastor from there emailed me to call him, as he has been the caretaker of two of my paintings of Christ they use for Christmas and Easter. He is leaving and will only be there part time and is going into Christian counseling. He also mentioned they have a new sr. pastor so I went on Sunday and may stay a while and see what God says next about it. I long to teach a class on holiness, and a closer walk with God, but I know my doctrines are unlike anything they've even heard of. If I feel led to stay I will sit down with them and go over what I believe. I picked up one of my paintings, and will pick up the other next week. They are quite large and I can only handle one at a time. They can still borrow them, but I just won't leave them there.

I feel your pain for as myself I have been through that sadness knowing there is so much more to know from God that these exploit from religious beliefs. I had to completely walk away and cleans my own mind from the stipulations these impose and call it of God.

But the yearning in my heart is to express the same yearning Jesus had to express from the Father where I cant help but express in real time realty the power of God to cleans the mind from all unrighteousness. And this forum is perfect opportunity. Even though the rejection and mockery of the Christ within from these, it is joy in my soul to be identified with the same SPirit Jesus was persecuted of for the same reason where my identity is with him.

I havent been to one of these establishment for enterprise for twenty five years and I am quite content in knowing God is satisfied with me simply living His life. I come here as a testament for what it is to be in the Father as Jesus was in Him, and I count it joy when people in ignorance mock me because they identify me with the same those of Jesus day identified him as a blasphemer against their religious laws.

BTW I am an artist myself and would love to view your paintings.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The old saying about the word "Assume" is that it makes an ASS out of U, and ME - which makes "Assumptions" a dangerous thing. - WOF depends on false ASSUMPTIONS, which, if you're talking about secular matters, can COST you financially, and cause you embarrassment.

BUT if you're talking about PHYSICAL THINGS (like sicknesses), then people can, and DO die from lack of proper medical care.

A few years ago it seemed that there were stories every year about the "Faith filled" family, who didn't give their diabetic child his Insulin, because God had HEALED HIM of diabetes - of course killing him in the process. And then the WoF pastor would come and accuse the grieving family of murdering their child with their LACK OF FAITH!!!

Yikes!!! What they don't realize with their name it and claim it, is they are claiming their will, and not the will of the Father. But faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the rhema of God. So you first must hear God speak His rhema to you, and then you are given the gift of faith to believe and God heals them, or whatever the rhema says is His will.

Jesus told the disciples to hang around Jerusalem until they were "Endued with power from on high". Acts 2 was the fulfillment of that, and the "great controversy" is whether Acts 2 was the point at which the disciple received the Holy Spirit and were made Christians (instead of John 20:22 the evening of the Resurrection when Jesus "BREATHED ON THEM" saying "receive ye the Holy Spirit". When God BREATHES on somebody - there's an impartation.

And in any case the word "Enduement" is an EXTERNAL CLOTHING - specifically WITH power from on high. so the disciples in Acts 2 were already Born Again of the Spirit and indwelled by Him, which is what made them Christians. and Acts 2 is where the Holy Spirit CAME UPON the disciples (As He did in Old Testament folks - like Samson, and Elijah) - enduing them with POWER for ministry.

Yes, that is exactly what I teach, but I like your visualization. The first is to change our nature to partake of the divine nature of God and become Christlike who was sinless. The second is for power and boldness in ministry.

 

[Gary Mac]

Yikes!!! What they don't realize with their name it and claim it, is they are claiming their will, and not the will of the Father. But faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the rhema of God. So you first must hear God speak His rhema to you, and then you are given the gift of faith to believe and God heals them, or whatever the rhema says is His will.


Yes, that is exactly what I teach, but I like your visualization. The first is to change our nature to partake of the divine nature of God and become Christlike who was sinless. The second is for power and boldness in ministry.

I sent you a conversation if you can go and view it, I would love to view your paintings.