SINNING WILLFULLY

[tdidymas]

No it's not. It is sin in general.

You have the burden of proof to support your claim. I've already shown by scriptural context that my interpretation is correct.

The sin of unbelief is certainly the root of sin in general, isn't it? After all, didn't the serpent convince Eve not to believe God? Isn't any sin of disobedience grounded in lack of faith that God's way is best? Tell me, if a person commits adultery, are they in a state of belief that God's command "do not commit adultery" is good for them? If a person bows before an idol, are they actually believing that YHWH is the only true God? If a person disregards God's command, are they actually believing God then?

You need to explain how any sin is based on faith rather than unbelief. But the writer of Hebrews is getting to the heart of the matter, which is unbelief, so stated in 4:11. And we know it starts with Christ, as he explains in ch. 1. And since the whole epistle is about faith in Christ, you will need to show by exegesis that "sinning willfully" means any sin at all (or "sin in general"). What does the context tell us?

 

[Slyzr]

Only if you receive the One at your door knocking this day who takes away the sins of this world.

Then I am dead .....

Never to live only to die.

can I burp ..... Gary

Nope there will be no more burping.

Can you burp ... Gary?

well not really ..... I used to burp .... but then I found the truth.

So no more burping?

Our theology is no one can burp.

So no more anything?

Ya .....

Farting is over with?

Our goal is no more fating.

 

[Him]

You have the burden of proof to support your claim. I've already shown by scriptural context that my interpretation is correct.

The sin of unbelief is certainly the root of sin in general, isn't it? After all, didn't the serpent convince Eve not to believe God? Isn't any sin of disobedience grounded in lack of faith that God's way is best? Tell me, if a person commits adultery, are they in a state of belief that God's command "do not commit adultery" is good for them? If a person bows before an idol, are they actually believing that YHWH is the only true God? If a person disregards God's command, are they actually believing God then?

You need to explain how any sin is based on faith rather than unbelief. But the writer of Hebrews is getting to the heart of the matter, which is unbelief, so stated in 4:11. And we know it starts with Christ, as he explains in ch. 1. And since the whole epistle is about faith in Christ, you will need to show by exegesis that "sinning willfully" means any sin at all (or "sin in general"). What does the context tell us?

No you haven't.
So sin is sin in general in verses 10:2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12, 17, 18 but not in verse 26?
Why, because we wish it not to be because we are living a life of willfully sinning?

 

[Gary Mac]

Then I am dead .....

Never to live only to die.

can I burp ..... Gary

Nope there will be no more burping.

Can you burp ... Gary?

well not really ..... I used to burp .... but then I found the truth.

So no more burping?

Our theology is no one can burp.

So no more anything?

Ya .....

Farting is over with?

Our goal is no more fating.

Now that was a mature and responsible response, typical for a religious mind who claim to be of Christ. I bet Christ wrote that himself huh?

 

[tdidymas]

No you haven't.
So sin is sin in general in verses 10:2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 11, 12, 17, 18 but not in verse 26?
Why, because we wish it not to be because we are living a life of willfully sinning?

Your point might have been valid, if the subject matter was the same, but it's not. In v. 2-18, the sin is general because it's talking about the sacrifices made for them. But in v. 26, it's talking about believing in Christ's sacrifice for sins, as v. 29 explains. Therefore, the sin in v. 26 is specific to unbelief. The transition begins in v. 12. Do you see it?

And I think you also miss the point that belief results in repentance. But repentance is also an ongoing lifestyle, not a one-time event. Do you deny that Christians still have the nature to sin, and that there is an ongoing spiritual warfare against it, as Gal. 5:19-21 describes?

 

[Yakuda]

Im trying to but difficult if one only knows the law for sin and can't be identified with the laws for Spirit, which are not the same laws at all.

Jesus was accused of being a sinner, blasphemer, sabbath breaker, wine bibber, glutton to the ones who held those laws that condemned Jesus in sin. He was made to be sin because of those laws and by identification with them. The law is sin exampled in the laws Jesus was guilty of breaking.

We have the very same here in this forum. To most here I am heretic because of the same way Jesus was a heretic and accused of.

So to some I am a sinner because of their laws they have established to govern a belief, but to God He in me and I in Him are one. And that very statement will condemn me as a blasphemer to many here. SO to these yes I am a sinner, but to God I walk as He walks in His same light and that does not include sin, for He takes away the sins of this world, not many believe it though, just ask them if they are a sinner and see if they are of God or of their laws to govern their beliefs for a god.

Jesus was not ignorant of the law, he taught it in the temples at a young age, ironic is the very ones he once taught for about 20 years are the very ones who accused him of heresy and had him crucified for it. He changed from the law to Spirit in Matt 3:16, a great change came over him that is very obvious in his trials and tribulations;ations. He tagged this opening as born again. Jesus was once reverend as a great teacher of the law then became a rebel and an outcast to the religious folk.

Sin? It is a matter of perspective isn't it? Look how those of the day saw Jesus. His very own disciples flat-out denied him to be identified with him in his trials and tribulations. Not one came to be identified with him . No different today. Few who can identify with what God put in Jesus from lack in having the same themselves.

What Jesus was accused of is irrelevant. He either was a sinner or wasn't a sinner. The accusation are meaningless. So I will ask you AGAIN since you have salvation from sin, do you no longer sin?

 

[Gary Mac]

What Jesus was accused of is irrelevant. He either was a sinner or wasn't a sinner. The accusation are meaningless. So I will ask you AGAIN since you have salvation from sin, do you no longer sin?

You must not have read the post.

To some Jesus was a sinner, but to God he was not he was born of God in Matt 3:16.

To some I am a sinner, but to God I am not for I am born of God His child, His son, just as Jesus was born of God His child, His son. You are supposed to be born of God as well. Jesus described being born of God as born again just as he experienced of God in Matt 3:16 where God gave Jesus His mind to Him by His Spirit, you can read it.

It is by My Spirit says the Lord, not beliefs about Him but God actually manifest in you just as He was manifest in Jesus and these others.

You are not looking at God in His context, you Are dictating to Him your own beliefs about Him.

 

[Yakuda]

You must not have read the post.

To some Jesus was a sinner, but to God he was not he was born of God in Matt 3:16.

To some I am a sinner, but to God I am not for I am born of God His child, His son, just as Jesus was born of God His child, His son. You are supposed to be born of God as well. Jesus described being born of God as born again just as he experienced of God in Matt 3:16 where God gave Jesus His mind to Him by His Spirit, you can read it.

It is by My Spirit says the Lord, not beliefs about Him but God actually manifest in you just as He was manifest in Jesus and these others.

You are not looking at God in His context, you Are dictating to Him your own beliefs about Him.

I am not dictating anything I am asking you a question which you seem very afraid to answer. Since you have salvation from sin, do you no longer sin?

 

[Gary Mac]

I am not dictating anything I am asking you a question which you seem very afraid to answer. Since you have salvation from sin, do you no longer sin?

If you will read the post you will see that we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin. And yes salvation is from sin, born of God, or born again as Jesus referred to this new man of Spirit, cannot be in sin.

Salvation is from sin not to be a sinner. Most say they are saved yet a sinner. That is impossible. Salvation is from sin not to sin.

You can't be in sin and be of Christ, that is imp[ossible for if you say you follow the way of Christ yet a sinner, then that makes the one you say you are of a sinner. But we who are of Christ, anointed of God, know it is impossible to be in sin.

SO AGAIN pleas read this post before you ask me that same question over and over in ignorance.

If you do not understand the answer just say you don't understand and we can discuss it -- instead of asking me over and over for the same answers.

 

[Him]

souls are helpless …

and have no will …

either a soul’s directed by the Self
the satanic realm entity, carnal mind…

or He directs….


what choice a soul has is so very small

It is either we hear God and His word and it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure or we are of the devil, and the lusts of ther devil we will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Him]

Your point might have been valid, if the subject matter was the same, but it's not. In v. 2-18, the sin is general because it's talking about the sacrifices made for them. But in v. 26, it's talking about believing in Christ's sacrifice for sins, as v. 29 explains. Therefore, the sin in v. 26 is specific to unbelief. The transition begins in v. 12. Do you see it?

No you are adding what is not there. A plain reading of the text does not even imply what you are inferring. Sin is sin in verse 26. How do we know. Because the text goes on to say in reference to this sinning willfully that one under the old dichotomy died without mercy if they sinned willfully, rejected the Law of Moses. Now we have been perfected by the Law is in our hearts and minds and we have been sanctified through the blood of Jesus. After receiving the knowledge of this truth how much sorer punishment suppose we be thought worthy who has counted the blood of the covenant as nothing wherein he was sanctified and has done despite, insulted the Spirit of THE grace, the Gift of the Law, the Spirit in the heart and Mind?

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning willingly after we received the knowledge of the truth, a sacrifice is no longer remaining (for) sins;
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervour fire are at hand, that the adversaries are being about to be devouring.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who set aside (rejected) the law of Moses is dying (without) compassions (on) two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Are ye thinking of much worse punishment the one who trampled upon the Son of God and esteemed common the blood of the covenant (in) where He was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of the grace will be counted worthy?
Heb 10:30 For we know the One Who has said, vengence is belonging to Me, I Myself will pay back, the LORD is saying: and again, the LORD will judge His people.

 

[Him]

If you will read the post you will see that we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin. And yes salvation is from sin, born of God, or born again as Jesus referred to this new man of Spirit, cannot be in sin.

Salvation is from sin not to be a sinner. Most say they are saved yet a sinner. That is impossible. Salvation is from sin not to sin.

Shall we sin that grace abounds? No, Not whatsoever! How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein. By His strips we have been healed. God is with us, it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

 

[Him]

Then why the encumbrance of the man called sin.

Was he to teach us not to sin?

Ya ... something like that.....

So we are to sin to never be ever again.

err .... let me check my notes.

Errr ... not really it was meant to be an ensample.

So I can not live because some one had an ensample; regarding how not.


Errr ... I think we have a bad connection.

Your fading out .... fading out ....

He was manifested to take away our sin; by His stripes we have been healed. We are dead nevertheless we live, yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God. Not I but Christ. Behold all is new and of God. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

 

[Gary Mac]

Shall we sin that grace abounds? No, Not whatsoever! How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein. By His strips we have been healed. God is with us, it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

Exactly that is what I have been saying all along. In Christ there is no sin, it is outside of Christ that one is the sinner

 

[Gary Mac]

souls are helpless …

and have no will …

either a soul’s directed by the Self
the satanic realm entity, carnal mind…

or He directs….


what choice a soul has is so very small

Your soul, or mind, Spirit, is what you make of it. You decide who you are, what you should be and how to react to it.

 

[Gary Mac]

No you are adding what is not there. A plain reading of the text does not even imply what you are inferring. Sin is sin in verse 26. How do we know. Because the text goes on to say in reference to this sinning willfully that one under the old dichotomy died without mercy if they sinned willfully, rejected the Law of Moses. Now we have been perfected by the Law is in our hearts and minds and we have been sanctified through the blood of Jesus. After receiving the knowledge of this truth how much sorer punishment suppose we be thought worthy who has counted the blood of the covenant as nothing wherein he was sanctified and has done despite, insulted the Spirit of THE grace, the Gift of the Law, the Spirit in the heart and Mind?

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning willingly after we received the knowledge of the truth, a sacrifice is no longer remaining (for) sins;
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervour fire are at hand, that the adversaries are being about to be devouring.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who set aside (rejected) the law of Moses is dying (without) compassions (on) two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Are ye thinking of much worse punishment the one who trampled upon the Son of God and esteemed common the blood of the covenant (in) where He was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of the grace will be counted worthy?
Heb 10:30 For we know the One Who has said, vengence is belonging to Me, I Myself will pay back, the LORD is saying: and again, the LORD will judge His people.

This is exactly why I follow Jesus in his assessments instead of Paul. It isn't a matter of sinning willfully it is a matter of god taking away your sin, 1 John 3. He really does take away the sins of this world.

If you are of Christ, Gods anointed, Christ in you, sin cannot be at all, you are either a sinner and without the Christ or you are of Christ and without sin, it cannot be both, sin and holiness cannot inhabit the same temple at the same time.

1John 3:9 we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin.
If you do sin then you are 1 John 3:8 and of your father the devil. read it.

Sin is not killing, stealing, chasing the neighbors wife, sin is separation from having Gods Spirit which simply is Love for God is Love. Those things are of the law and only result from that sin, from that separation from Him.

Jesus was very clear to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. How can that be? The Father in Heaven is Love for God is Love and man is the temple of Him, and Love is the only thing on this planet that is perfect. It can't be changed Love is the same yesterday as today and will be the same tomorrow, everything else changes and imperfect. For God is Love and man is the temple of Him.

Dont confuse the imperfect flesh man with the perfect spirit man.

 

[tdidymas]

No you are adding what is not there. A plain reading of the text does not even imply what you are inferring. Sin is sin in verse 26. How do we know. Because the text goes on to say in reference to this sinning willfully that one under the old dichotomy died without mercy if they sinned willfully, rejected the Law of Moses. Now we have been perfected by the Law is in our hearts and minds and we have been sanctified through the blood of Jesus. After receiving the knowledge of this truth how much sorer punishment suppose we be thought worthy who has counted the blood of the covenant as nothing wherein he was sanctified and has done despite, insulted the Spirit of THE grace, the Gift of the Law, the Spirit in the heart and Mind?

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning willingly after we received the knowledge of the truth, a sacrifice is no longer remaining (for) sins;
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fervour fire are at hand, that the adversaries are being about to be devouring.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who set aside (rejected) the law of Moses is dying (without) compassions (on) two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Are ye thinking of much worse punishment the one who trampled upon the Son of God and esteemed common the blood of the covenant (in) where He was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of the grace will be counted worthy?
Heb 10:30 For we know the One Who has said, vengence is belonging to Me, I Myself will pay back, the LORD is saying: and again, the LORD will judge His people.

I disagree with your interpretation. I read it exactly the way I described:

in ch. 1 he begins with a description of Christ, and faith in Him is the whole subject matter of the entire epistle. He clearly says so in 4:11, and in 8:1 it is even clearer, in which he says "Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven." He has not changed the subject in ch. 10, since he is about to go into a dissertation on faith in ch. 11.

So let's get to the detail of ch. 10: in v. 1-11 he is speaking of the Sinai covenant, in which animal sacrifices atone for sins. He also states that this atonement only cleanses the flesh (in ch. 9), but Christ's sacrifice has spiritual atonement which is better and permanent. Then, because the Sinai covenant is only a type and shadow of the new covenant in Christ, then Christ's sacrifice replaces animal sacrifices.

So in 10:12 that's the subject matter he is discussing: "But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God." And from here on through v. 39 he is talking about Christ's sacrifice for sin, and our obligation to believe in it. Therefore, the sin in v. 26 is the sin of unbelief.

Your response begs a question: you said "Now we have been perfected by the Law..." Did you mean to say this? This is not a typo error? Do you actually believe that a person is perfected by the law?

 

[Slyzr]

He was manifested to take away our sin; by His stripes we have been healed. We are dead nevertheless we live, yet not us but Christ liveth in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God. Not I but Christ. Behold all is new and of God. For it is He that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.

so we are dead ......

Never to live only to not be.

 

[Yakuda]

If you will read the post you will see that we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin. And yes salvation is from sin, born of God, or born again as Jesus referred to this new man of Spirit, cannot be in sin.

Salvation is from sin not to be a sinner. Most say they are saved yet a sinner. That is impossible. Salvation is from sin not to sin.

You can't be in sin and be of Christ, that is imp[ossible for if you say you follow the way of Christ yet a sinner, then that makes the one you say you are of a sinner. But we who are of Christ, anointed of God, know it is impossible to be in sin.

SO AGAIN pleas read this post before you ask me that same question over and over in ignorance.

If you do not understand the answer just say you don't understand and we can discuss it -- instead of asking me over and over for the same answers.

No I don't understand. I asked a direct question. If you don't want to answer let me know. Want try again? So you have salvation from sin, do you still sin? Yes or no? This isn't hard. You only have to type 3 letters or 2 letters.

 

[Slyzr]

No I don't understand. I asked a direct question. If you don't want to answer let me know. Want try again? So you have salvation from sin, do you still sin? Yes or no? This isn't hard. You only have to type 3 letters or 2 letters.

The truth is he has salvation for sin.

And righteousness is BATED.