SINNING WILLFULLY

Him

Member
There are a bunch of you here who think they are god and try and convince me you have the better way than God Himself.
Many teach but there is only one Teacher. When we realize we know nothing then we are in a place where we can learn from Him who is learnt.

You to a greater degree than most misunderstand Paul who was Saul. He who was asked became he who is little.
 

Him

Member
Amen! In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as some teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved. A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians and not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer within the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but then later renounces his identification with these other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with these Hebrew Christians was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
Context? Let's take a look.
Verses 19-25 is an exhortation that begins with the writer calling out to brethren which means the writer considers the people he is writing to to be of the faith. He then continues the exhortation in verse 20, and 22 in the first person plural with the word US in connection to the way being consecrated and their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. If your hearts are sprinkled and our bodies washed we are saved.
Then again the writer in verse 23 councils in the 1st person plural that they, including himself should hold fast their profession of faith without wavering because of God's faithfulness. Then continuing in the first person plural He says in verses 24 and 25 that they, including himself should provoke unto love and good works as they see the day approaching.
These people the writer considers brothers in the consecrated way having their hearts sprinkled from and evil conscience and their bodies washed WHICH MEANS THESE PEOPLE INCLUDING THE WRITER ARE SANCTIFIED, SAVED.

They are to profess this faith without wavering. They are to provoke unto love and good works and our counseled not to forsake the assembling together as some do because they see the Day approaching. These people are likeminded believers with the writer. They are saved.

Then Continuing In Verse 26 with the word FOR. Which means what is about to be said is the reason for what was previously stated. The writer continues in the 1st person plural continuing to include himself in the admonition. How do we know? He uses the word we. Couple that with Verse 29 when he says that the sinning willfully individual was sanctified.

What is posted in this post are all objective facts. As is the fact that if we are sinning willfully, we whom are sanctified, having the way consecrated before us. Our bodies washed with pure water and our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. We the brethren, if we are sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversary, those whom are sinning willfully.

And it would fail us not to mention after the admonition in verse 26-30 the writer starts in verse 32 with the word but and then begins to exhort those to whom he is speaking. Calling them illuminated.

You can't be sanctified, made holy and not be saved. Because you are not sanctified, made holy unless you have been saved.

Incidentally these sanctified illuminated individuals, brothers in the consecrated way having their hearts sprinkled from and evil conscience and their bodies washed are counseled to not cast away their confidence in verse 35 and within the same thought they are told that they are in need of patience, cheerful endurance. That after they done the will of God they MIGHT receive the promise. Which implies they MIGHT not receive the promise if they do not cheerfully endure.
 

Him

Member
Then the law is a measure of perfection that the Holy Ghost has done. The Holy Ghost is the one performing the perfection, and the law obeyed is the display, or result, of that perfection done by God. So then, my statement is true by 10:14-16, that the law did not perfect anyone, but the Spirit is the one sanctifying and perfecting. This verse does not say that the law is perfecting anyone. It does not say that doing the law will put God in the heart, but rather God will put the law in the heart. And so the verses I quoted that the law does not perfect anyone is the correct interpretation and context of this passage of scripture. And I still say you're wrong about the law perfecting us.

This is in harmony with Jesus' words "let your light so shine before men that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father who is in heaven." It is not the good deeds that are making the light, but the light making the deeds good. This means that the one doing the good deeds has faith that God's grace is working the deeds through us, that God has already written His will in the heart, and the good deeds are the resulting behavior of gratitude toward God of the great blessing He has done for the doer. People with faith do good because they love God, not because they think doing good or obeying the law makes them holy or perfect.

Can you see there is a difference?
The Law is in the heart and mind, His Word in the heart and mouth through the Spirit. The Law, His Word is the Standard to which the Spirit guides. It is part of who He is. There is no separation. And now because of the New Covenant, it is part of who we are. So it is no longer because we have to but because we want to. It is no longer a Law as defined as a mandate but a Law in that it is a fixed thing that just is.
 

MMDAN

Active member
Context? Let's take a look.
Verses 19-25 is an exhortation that begins with the writer calling out to brethren which means the writer considers the people he is writing to to be of the faith. He then continues the exhortation in verse 20, and 22 in the first person plural with the word US in connection to the way being consecrated and their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and bodies washed with pure water. If your hearts are sprinkled and our bodies washed we are saved.
Then again the writer in verse 23 councils in the 1st person plural that they, including himself should hold fast their profession of faith without wavering because of God's faithfulness. Then continuing in the first person plural He says in verses 24 and 25 that they, including himself should provoke unto love and good works as they see the day approaching.
These people the writer considers brothers in the consecrated way having their hearts sprinkled from and evil conscience and their bodies washed WHICH MEANS THESE PEOPLE INCLUDING THE WRITER ARE SANCTIFIED, SAVED.

They are to profess this faith without wavering. They are to provoke unto love and good works and our counseled not to forsake the assembling together as some do because they see the Day approaching. These people are likeminded believers with the writer. They are saved.

Then Continuing In Verse 26 with the word FOR. Which means what is about to be said is the reason for what was previously stated. The writer continues in the 1st person plural continuing to include himself in the admonition. How do we know? He uses the word we. Couple that with Verse 29 when he says that the sinning willfully individual was sanctified.

What is posted in this post are all objective facts. As is the fact that if we are sinning willfully, we whom are sanctified, having the way consecrated before us. Our bodies washed with pure water and our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience. We the brethren, if we are sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Only a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversary, those whom are sinning willfully.

And it would fail us not to mention after the admonition in verse 26-30 the writer starts in verse 32 with the word but and then begins to exhort those to whom he is speaking. Calling them illuminated.

You can't be sanctified, made holy and not be saved. Because you are not sanctified, made holy unless you have been saved.

Incidentally these sanctified illuminated individuals, brothers in the consecrated way having their hearts sprinkled from and evil conscience and their bodies washed are counseled to not cast away their confidence in verse 35 and within the same thought they are told that they are in need of patience, cheerful endurance. That after they done the will of God they MIGHT receive the promise. Which implies they MIGHT not receive the promise if they do not cheerfully endure.

Although the writer of Hebrews includes himself in this warning (if we sin willfully) note that he switches pronouns in Hebrews 10:29 to "he" and at the end of the chapter (Hebrews 10:39) the writer makes it clear that he considers himself a true believer by including himself in the "we" who do not "draw back to perdition." But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

Once again, sanctified "set apart" in Hebrews 10:29 is not the same as "sanctified once for all" in Hebrews 10:14. The one proves eternal (Hebrews 10:14) and the other proves guilty of apostasy. (Hebrews 10:29) The writer of Hebrews said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"(Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So even though the reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a genuine Christian, this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses the word to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved. A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant "saved" in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

Again, in verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but then later renounces his identification with these other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with these Hebrew Christians was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

Throughout the book of Hebrews, we see "nominal" Christians mixed in with genuine Christians, like in Hebrews 4:1-2. For indeed the gospel was preached to US as well as to THEM; but the word which they heard did not profit THEM, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For WE who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest," although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Obviously, not all of these Hebrews were genuine believers. Notice that verses 2-3 makes a distinction between US who have BELIEVED and do enter that rest and THEM who heard the word but did not mix faith with what they heard and will not enter that rest because of UNBELIEF.

So it's not hard to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with genuine Christians in the book of Hebrews and throughout scripture and in various churches today and on various Christian forum sites. You seem to overlook this fact.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Many teach but there is only one Teacher. When we realize we know nothing then we are in a place where we can learn from Him who is learnt.
Yes the One who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and taught him His ways. He is the only One who can open His heaven to you, even Jesus wasn't exempt from this process.
You to a greater degree than most misunderstand Paul who was Saul. He who was asked became he who is little.
And perhaps it isn't I who misunderstands Pauls internet?

When I read what he says compared to what Jesus said there are a lot of discrepancies.

Saul was a smattered man. He went out to destroy Christianity by persecution but when he saw that wasn't going to work he was like if I can't defeat them by persecution and if I can get them to trust me instead of Jesus I can defeat them from the inside.

Because of this we have a man as a god instead of God who is a Spirit.
We have from Paul that you are just a dirty ole sinner not worthy of Gods kingdom in which Jesus taught just the opposite, be perfect as you're Father in heaven is perfect.
Jesus never taught women keep silent, Jesus taught we all are the same in the Father.
Men cut your hair, women don't cut your hair. Those are noting but religious laws Paul made up, Jesus never commented on such.

ANd I can go on and one with this. But if you will notice, there are a lot more who follow Paul as a sinner than ever did Jesus and without sin.

So Saul actually accomplished his goal to turn people from Christ to be anointed of God and like Him, to be like him instead. And this is where the trinity doctrine comes from, to get people to worship a man as a god instead of having in you God Himself as Jesus was teacher of.

it is better for me to follow Jesus, if Paul is your way then so be it, I just see the difference from the two because I know the ONE, He in me and I in Him are one, just as Jesus prayed to our God for me to be in John 17. Paul made a man a god -- Jesus as god that most believe today.
 

Him

Member
Yes the One who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and taught him His ways. He is the only One who can open His heaven to you, even Jesus wasn't exempt from this process.

And perhaps it isn't I who misunderstands Pauls internet?

When I read what he says compared to what Jesus said there are a lot of discrepancies.

Saul was a smattered man. He went out to destroy Christianity by persecution but when he saw that wasn't going to work he was like if I can't defeat them by persecution and if I can get them to trust me instead of Jesus I can defeat them from the inside.

Because of this we have a man as a god instead of God who is a Spirit.
We have from Paul that you are just a dirty ole sinner not worthy of Gods kingdom in which Jesus taught just the opposite, be perfect as you're Father in heaven is perfect.
Jesus never taught women keep silent, Jesus taught we all are the same in the Father.
Men cut your hair, women don't cut your hair. Those are noting but religious laws Paul made up, Jesus never commented on such.

ANd I can go on and one with this. But if you will notice, there are a lot more who follow Paul as a sinner than ever did Jesus and without sin.

So Saul actually accomplished his goal to turn people from Christ to be anointed of God and like Him, to be like him instead. And this is where the trinity doctrine comes from, to get people to worship a man as a god instead of having in you God Himself as Jesus was teacher of.

it is better for me to follow Jesus, if Paul is your way then so be it, I just see the difference from the two because I know the ONE, He in me and I in Him are one, just as Jesus prayed to our God for me to be in John 17. Paul made a man a god -- Jesus as god that most believe today.
No It is you
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
No It is you
Well at least I know what Jesus knew of the Father, He in me and I in Him are one. And I know what Paul presented and I really do not see Jesus following Paul in his religious assessment.

One of these was imperfect and a sinner and taught you that you are a sinner

And one of these was perfect and without sin and teaches what it is to be of the Father and without sin.

I think the one who was without sin had it right which to you is the wrong way just as you said, No it is you.
 

Him

Member
Well at least I know what Jesus knew of the Father, He in me and I in Him are one. And I know what Paul presented and I really do not see Jesus following Paul in his religious assessment.

One of these was imperfect and a sinner and taught you that you are a sinner

And one of these was perfect and without sin and teaches what it is to be of the Father and without sin.

I think the one who was without sin had it right which to you is the wrong way just as you said, No it is you.
No you are misunderstanding Paul
For it is written, "I am dead never the less I live yet not I but Christ liveth in me and the Life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who gave himself for me. For he that has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ. There is neither male nor female, Bond or free, Jew or gentile we are all one in Christ. One faith one Lord one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure."

What is it you think the Law of sin is that Paul shows that we have been set free from in Christ? It is That sin is more than we can handle outside of Christ. But in Christ we are more than conquers. Shall we continue in sin? God for bid how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? For the Law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of sin in in our members. The law that when we would do good evil is present with us.


Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
No you are misunderstanding Paul
For it is written, "I am dead never the less I live yet not I but Christ liveth in me and the Life I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who gave himself for me. For he that has been baptized into Christ has put on Christ. There is neither male nor female, Bond or free, Jew or gentile we are all one in Christ. One faith one Lord one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure."

What is it you think the Law of sin is that Paul shows that we have been set free from in Christ?
Then why did he make up laws that you may follow?
It is That sin is more than we can handle outside of Christ.
Sin was taken care of the moment I put on the Christ, Gods anointing, sin is not for me to deal with, I gave that over to God..
But in Christ we are more than conquers. Shall we continue in sin? God for bid how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein? For the Law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of sin in in our members. The law that when we would do good evil is present with us.


Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Sin is not in the member of who are born of God, born again, of Christ, anointed of God. It is impossible to be in sin, 1 John 3:9. Sin is not a battle at all, the battle is sin will not allow you to be like the Father and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Pul was not perfect, had a thorn in his flesh, sin which was his desire to be exalted beyond measure for his abundance of revelation, which I see it was not the revelation God puts in man at all.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Yet Paul made laws to govern his beliefs of the Christ.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Having the mind, Spirit, of the Father as Jesus had the mind, Spirit, of the Father, with He in me and I in Him as one, reveals clearly Pauls intent.

Paul has you under his spell as he used trickery as he stated to get you to follow him, where in hiding the Christ who is supposed to be in you, you anointed of God to walk as He walks in His same light, same mind of God, you anointed of God, that is hidden from you because you follow another instead.

I do not consult with other Christians, no need to when consultation is with God Himself. I have willed myself to Him just as Jesus willed himself to Him, for His will for me is to be like Him and in His same image.

The moment you choose to be loyal to Him instead of the likes of Paul or any other preacher, you become witness against yourself. But I do not expect you will understand what it is to shed the old man in carnality in your own ways to become like Him in His ways.

As I have stated many times, God is sufficient to relay His will, Jesus didn't need Paul, Adam didn't need Paul to become like Him, Gen 3;22, Abraham didn't need Paul to know God, Moses didn't need Paul to know God, Jesus didn't need Paul to know God, Matt 3:16, 120 didn't need Paul to know God. God is quite capable of relaying His will directly.

Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you. When one reaches that day, you dint even have to consult with Jesus just as he stated. Paul has noting at all to offer for those who has reached that day Jesus did in Matt 3:16, 120 did, Moses did, Abraham did,
 
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tdidymas

Active member
The Law is in the heart and mind, His Word in the heart and mouth through the Spirit. The Law, His Word is the Standard to which the Spirit guides. It is part of who He is. There is no separation. And now because of the New Covenant, it is part of who we are. So it is no longer because we have to but because we want to. It is no longer a Law as defined as a mandate but a Law in that it is a fixed thing that just is.
Your reasoning doesn't support the law making us perfect, since "it is a fixed thing that just is" in your words. I still say you're wrong about that.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Because of being sanctified by His blood and perfected by His Law in our hearts and minds we therefore have Boldness to enter into the holiest of all through the veil, that is to say His flesh. Let us hold fast this profession of our faith. That we are sanctified and perfected. Considering one another, provoking unto love, good works and exhorting one another as we see the day approaching. For, BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS JUST SHARED. IF WE ARE SINNING WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of us being SANCTIFIED through Christ's blood AND PERFECTED through the New Covenant there remains no more sacrifice for sin. ONLY a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries Those who are sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of God, and counting the blood of the covenant in which we were sanctified an unholy thing and has done despite upon the Spirit of Grace.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Please explain Romans 7, where Paul struggles with sin? Just curious.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Please explain Romans 7, where Paul struggles with sin? Just curious.
He struggles with sin because he was not born of God and didn’t know the One who takes away sin 1John 3. For those who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin. V 9.

And that is exactly why I follow Jesus instead of Paul. More people have been lead away from Christ by Paul in sin than ever did who actually follow Jesus in righteousness and without sin.

that is why people condemn me for being of Christ and without sin for they do not know the way of Christ to be without sin.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Because of being sanctified by His blood and perfected by His Law in our hearts and minds we therefore have Boldness to enter into the holiest of all through the veil, that is to say His flesh. Let us hold fast this profession of our faith. That we are sanctified and perfected. Considering one another, provoking unto love, good works and exhorting one another as we see the day approaching. For, BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS JUST SHARED. IF WE ARE SINNING WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of us being SANCTIFIED through Christ's blood AND PERFECTED through the New Covenant there remains no more sacrifice for sin. ONLY a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries Those who are sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of God, and counting the blood of the covenant in which we were sanctified an unholy thing and has done despite upon the Spirit of Grace.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
The phrase "there no more remains sacrifice for sin" means the old sacrifice is done away with in the New Covenant. Thus if they, the recipient Hebrews, reject Christ, the only valid sacrifice for sins, there is no other sacrifice they can turn to, as it, the old Temple sacrifice, is done away with.

That's what the phrase means. It does not mean if one willfully sins they now go to hell.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
He struggles with sin because he was not born of God and didn’t know the One who takes away sin 1John 3. For those who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin. V 9.
I beg to differ, for two reasons: 1) His name was changed from Saul to Paul when he converted, and 2) In Romans 7, verse 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being. This verse crucial to understanding that Paul is a believer already. Psalm 1 makes a sharp distinction between the godly man and the ungodly man:

The Way of the Righteous and the Wicked


1 Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD,
and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree
planted by streams of water
that yields its fruit in its season,
and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers.

4 The wicked are not so,
but are like chaff that the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous;
6 for the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked will perish.​

And that is exactly why I follow Jesus instead of Paul.
Yes we follow Jesus too. But Paul penned a lot of Scripture, so you throw all that out?
More people have been lead away from Christ by Paul in sin than ever did who actually follow Jesus in righteousness and without sin.
Wow! You are making a serious accusation without any references or evidence to prove your case! So I challenge you to make your case against Paul.
that is why people condemn me for being of Christ and without sin for they do not know the way of Christ to be without sin.
So you never sin, ever??? Because I cannot find anyone in the Bible who was without sin, except for 3 people: Adam & Eve before the Fall, and Christ. Nobody else is perfect and without sin. Sin is in our fallen flesh. That is what Paul is struggling with in Romans 7. Why in the Lord's Prayer do we ask for forgiveness of our sins, if we are without sin? Why does Christ intercede for us to the Father when when we sin? We won't be without sin, until we receive our glorified bodies! Our sins are covered, and forgotten, and I'm not saying this is a license to continue in sin, we must walk in holiness. But we will continue to sin, because of these bodies of death we are in.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I beg to differ, for two reasons: 1) His name was changed from Saul to Paul when he converted, and 2) In Romans 7, verse 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being. This verse crucial to understanding that Paul is a believer already. Psalm 1 makes a sharp distinction between the godly man and the ungodly man:

The Way of the Righteous and the Wicked


1 Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the LORD,
and on his law he meditates day and night.
3 He is like a tree
planted by streams of water
that yields its fruit in its season,
and its leaf does not wither.
In all that he does, he prospers.

4 The wicked are not so,
but are like chaff that the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous;
6 for the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked will perish.​


Yes we follow Jesus too. But Paul penned a lot of Scripture, so you throw all that out?

Wow! You are making a serious accusation without any references or evidence to prove your case! So I challenge you to make your case against Paul.

So you never sin, ever??? Because I cannot find anyone in the Bible who was without sin, except for 3 people: Adam & Eve before the Fall, and Christ. Nobody else is perfect and without sin. Sin is in our fallen flesh. That is what Paul is struggling with in Romans 7. Why in the Lord's Prayer do we ask for forgiveness of our sins, if we are without sin? Why does Christ intercede for us to the Father when when we sin? We won't be without sin, until we receive our glorified bodies! Our sins are covered, and forgotten, and I'm not saying this is a license to continue in sin, we must walk in holiness. But we will continue to sin, because of these bodies of death we are in.
The way of my God is God Himself. No man can give you God not even Jesus can give you what he received from God in Matt 3;16.

Jesus trusted no man only the Father. A message all should seek ye first the kingdom of God where He Lives Luke 17:20-21.

knowing God and identified with Him I see a lot of differences in what Paul taught and what Jesus taught. Jesus just has the better way.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
The way of my God is God Himself. No man can give you God not even Jesus can give you what he received from God in Matt 3;16.

Jesus trusted no man only the Father. A message all should seek ye first the kingdom of God where He Lives Luke 17:20-21.

knowing God and identified with Him I see a lot of differences in what Paul taught and what Jesus taught. Jesus just has the better way.
You know that Jesus is God incarnate, right? John 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You know that Jesus is God incarnate, right?
Ye God coming into that man from the outward inward. That is what incarnate means. And He. Ones into all who will receive Him as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.
John 14:5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
Yes Jesus was spot on. No one comes to the father except the same way Jesus did. See Matt 3:16.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Ye God coming into that man from the outward inward. That is what incarnate means. And He. Ones into all who will receive Him as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.

Yes Jesus was spot on. No one comes to the father except the same way Jesus did. See Matt 3:16.
Jesus is God,

The Word Became Flesh

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus is God,

The Word Became Flesh

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Amen. He is Spirit and all in His kingdom is spirit. And in the the light, word, is in us all who has received Him as Jesus received Him. His word become flesh our flesh.
 

Him

Member
The phrase "there no more remains sacrifice for sin" means the old sacrifice is done away with in the New Covenant. Thus if they, the recipient Hebrews, reject Christ, the only valid sacrifice for sins, there is no other sacrifice they can turn to, as it, the old Temple sacrifice, is done away with.

That's what the phrase means. It does not mean if one willfully sins they now go to hell.
It is sinning willfully and you are right. What the verse is saying is the willfully sinning person will be destroyed.
 
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