SINNING WILLFULLY

Him

Member
Please explain Romans 7, where Paul struggles with sin? Just curious.
I understand. My apologies for the delay.


Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The Law of sin that Paul seen in his members is that we can not help ourselves. For the evil that we would not that we do.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

However the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of Sin, the evil that we would not that we do; and Death.
That righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Remember in Chapter 6. We are dead to sin, and thereby freed from sin through Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
 
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Ladodgers6

Well-known member
I understand. My apologies for the delay.


Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The Law of sin that Paul seen in his members is that we can not help ourselves. For the evil that we would not that we do.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

However the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of Sin, the evil that we would not that we do; and Death.
That righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Remember in Chapter 6. We are dead to sin, and thereby freed from sin through Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
So is Paul a believer in Romans 7?
 

Him

Member
So is Paul a believer in Romans 7?
Paul is speaking in the Historical present tense Romans 7.
In grammar, the "historical present" is the use of a verb phrase in the present tense to refer to an event that took place in the past.

How do we know? Because in chapter 7 Paul relates that HE IS IN CAPTIVITY TO
The Law of sin that Paul seen in his members

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

However the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has set him free from the Law of Sin in which he said HE WAS IN CAPTIVITY TO. So it is no longer true.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Because of being sanctified by His blood and perfected by His Law in our hearts and minds we therefore have Boldness to enter into the holiest of all through the veil, that is to say His flesh. Let us hold fast this profession of our faith. That we are sanctified and perfected. Considering one another, provoking unto love, good works and exhorting one another as we see the day approaching. For, BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS JUST SHARED. IF WE ARE SINNING WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of us being SANCTIFIED through Christ's blood AND PERFECTED through the New Covenant there remains no more sacrifice for sin. ONLY a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries Those who are sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of God, and counting the blood of the covenant in which we were sanctified an unholy thing and has done despite upon the Spirit of Grace.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Sinning willfully includes any sin one knowingly commits, e.g. you know you shouldn't eat any more candy, but you rationalize that "just one more isn't really going to make any difference"; You know you should spend more time with a neighbor who is lonely, or needs help, but you're tired, or you've never liked them because they're so negative or nasty, etc. Rationalizations, or justifications are an abomination (Luke 16:15)
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
If one has from God that what Jesus received from Him where God Himself comes to you as He did in Jesus in Matt 3 16 where you are born again. If you are born of God sin is no longer an issue for He has taken that from you and replaced it with His righteousness.

if you are a sinner it would be wise to see the kingdom of God first and His righteousness instead is seeking the sin that you guys say you are of instead of having the mind of Christ that is without sin. You can’t know what sin is until you k own what it os to be the righteousness of God.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
It is sinning willfully and you are right. What the verse is saying is the willfully sinning person will be destroyed.
Concerning apostates, yes. Concerning those truly converted this isn't applicable as it's being taken out of context and is being misapplied.
 

Him

Member
Concerning apostates, yes. Concerning those truly converted this isn't applicable as it's being taken out of context and is being misapplied.
The writer includes himself with the people he is speaking to. Verse 26 uses the word we.
If we are sinning willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sin. But certain looking forward of judgment and indignation which shall destroy the adversaries. Those who are sinning willfully and have done despite unto the Spirit of grace.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
The writer includes himself with the people he is speaking to. Verse 26 uses the word we.
If we are sinning willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sin. But certain looking forward of judgment and indignation which shall destroy the adversaries. Those who are sinning willfully and have done despite unto the Spirit of grace.
You're not understanding the context nor the meaning of the text.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus is God,

The Word Became Flesh

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
People has made Jesus a god for those who do not know the God Jesus called Father and prayed to and obeyed and said sent him to show you the way to the Father. Not very many follow Jesus to the Father though. They say Jesus is Lord then turn right around and dictate to him their own will for understanding instead and lord over him.
 

Him

Member
You're not understanding the context nor the meaning of the text.
Pretty easy to understand. If we are sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Because we have done despite unto the Spirit of grace.

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
 

Him

Member
Sinning willfully includes any sin one knowingly commits, e.g. you know you shouldn't eat any more candy, but you rationalize that "just one more isn't really going to make any difference"; You know you should spend more time with a neighbor who is lonely, or needs help, but you're tired, or you've never liked them because they're so negative or nasty, etc. Rationalizations, or justifications are an abomination (Luke 16:15)
Ye we must follow Him that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Pretty easy to understand. If we are sinning willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin. Because we have done despite unto the Spirit of grace.

Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Then you're on your way to hell if you've ever lusted after a woman since salvation.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Sinning Willfully not sin willfully.
Sorry, the text doesn't signify that it is multiple sins, and even if so, you've sinned, willingly, multiple times since you say you got saved. Your conscious and heart know this to be true.

The thing is, you do not understand the text.

I'm not going to go round and round over this with you, so, you can get your last word in...
 

Him

Member
Sinning Willfully not sin willfully.

Sorry, the text doesn't signify that it is multiple sins, and even if so, you've sinned, willingly, multiple times since you say you got saved. Your conscious and heart know this to be true.

The thing is, you do not understand the text.

I'm not going to go round and round over this with you, so, you can get your last word in...
The thing is all you have done is state an opinion with nothing to back it up.
And it is sinning willfully. It is in the present tense in the Greek and is a Participle. In that it is speaking of a unregenerated life. A state of being, who they are.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Because of being sanctified by His blood and perfected by His Law in our hearts and minds we therefore have Boldness to enter into the holiest of all through the veil, that is to say His flesh. Let us hold fast this profession of our faith. That we are sanctified and perfected. Considering one another, provoking unto love, good works and exhorting one another as we see the day approaching. For, BECAUSE OF WHAT WAS JUST SHARED. IF WE ARE SINNING WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of us being SANCTIFIED through Christ's blood AND PERFECTED through the New Covenant there remains no more sacrifice for sin. ONLY a certain fearful looking forward to judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries Those who are sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of God, and counting the blood of the covenant in which we were sanctified an unholy thing and has done despite upon the Spirit of Grace.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we are sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
This distinction between sinning willfully or unintentionally is a fundamental feature of the Mosaic law. When someone knows that what they intend to do is wrong, but then look for some reason, rationale, or justification to do it anyways, they are sinning willfully. Luke records Jesus' observation that to intentionally sin, or rather to supply a rationalization or justification for sin is "an abomination" Luke 16:15

Sacrifice was never, and never will be the remedy for sinning willfully. The remedy for sinning willfully is 'teshuva' or repentance and restitution. This is what Jesus begins his ministry with.

The remedy for unintentional sin is sacrifice, and it is no coincidence that the gospel end with Christ's sacrifice on the cross. As the first quotation presented clearly points out, one cannot enter into the New Covenant and sin intentionally without suffering damnation as "there remains no more sacrifice for sins".

The problem with this statement is that it assumes people will sin within the New Covenant, but the parameters of the New Covenant are clearly articulated by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the author of Hebrews. They all point out that there is no possibility of anyone sinning within the New Covenant.

It is also quite clear that God has not brought about those parameters yet. We do not see Israel reunited with Judah, and a sinless society emerging with Christ ruling with a rod of iron.

What we still see are people trying to do the best they can and relying upon Christ's sacrifice to cover their sins which is what we see under the Old Covenant. The parameters are practically identical.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
This is the existential fact under the New Covenant, but under the Old Covenant, it can only be unsuccessfully attempted.
And is the very state of our churches today, they strive but never reach the goal of that high calling to be like Him as Jesus was like Him. He in you and you in Him as one as He was in Jesus and Jesus was in Him as one, John 17, is no longer practiced in Christendom.
 
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