Skating

treeplanter

Active member
A certain poster acknowledged the obvious and admitted that he doesn't think for himself

This poster confessed that he has abdicated this greatest of personal responsibilities and has, blindly and without question, slavishly substituted God's thoughts {per scripture} for his own

This poster's words from the thread titled: WHO HERE CAN BUILD A FENCE?
Post #124

"Repentance is the word for changing your mind and agreeing with God's Word on all things that he's saying matters"

When I echoed this poster's own words {in the thread titled: PERHAPS SOMEONE CAN EXPLAIN EVOLUTION TO ME} and asserted that he has abdicated the responsibility for thinking for himself, accepting, instead, that everything that God says and does is always good and true regardless of whether or not it conforms to his own suppressed personal values, this poster responded by asserting that my words are...

"further demonstration that {I've} sought to impose {my} beliefs on {him}, and demand that {he} agree with {me}


Obviously, my stating that this poster does not think for himself is no more a demand that he think like me than my stating that a young child does not dress himself is a demand that the young child dress like me!!!


And when I pointed this out to to this poster?
He ignored it, as usual...as always, actually

Anyway, I'm sick and tired of letting this guy skate!

OWN YOUR WORDS!
DEFEND YOUR CLAIM!
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF!


P.S.
Having removed the name of the particular poster from both the title and text of this thread, there is no reason for this thread to be deleted again
 
Last edited:

treeplanter

Active member
Quotemining.


Frustrated trollowers.
Frustrated when ignored



Entertaining
Yeah, it IS frustrating when certain posters make mind numbingly stupid and patently false claims and then simply walk away

The poster in question said, himself, that he has substituted God's thinking for his own
I agreed with his assessment of himself and asserted that, yes, he has substituted God's thinking for his own
Said poster then accused me of trying to impose my beliefs upon him and demanding that he think like me

Then when I ask him to explain how my agreeing with his own assessment of himself equates to me imposing my beliefs upon him and demanding that he think like me - he runs away...

Yes, it IS frustrating


Do you think for yourself?
Perhaps you can explain the reasoning by which "you don't think for yourself" is the same as "I demand that you think like me"?
 
A certain poster acknowledged the obvious and admitted that he doesn't think for himself
I am not sure this is totally fair. I went back and forth in that debate with the poster. I think that the poster just has a very different view of reality. The poster, and many Christians, simply attribute almost everything to God as a default. The idea for the fence is from God. The inspiration is from God. The skill in your hands to build is from God. And they see no need to prove this.

I do think they think for themselves. However, you are very right in that this poster does not support claims with supporting evidence or logic. This is because the poster did not come to these beliefs with evidence or logic. So that approach just does not compute.

Many people have a core, foundational belief in God. That is before evidence or logic. It is the center of their world. It is beyond question. And then they build their morals, beliefs, logic, and life on that core.

You and I are skeptics. Nothing is beyond question for us. However, for a huge majority of the world this is not true.

Anyhoo, just a thought. I think if we show understanding and compassion for those who have this core, unshakable, yet unsupported belief in God we'll have better conversations. In the end we are not going to convince that poster to even question their faith - it is just too deep down. But we can be kind.

I fail at this constantly. But I keep trying to improve myself and my approach.

I consider you a kindred spirit - I hope you take this as friendly chat - I do not intend to attack. Plus I want to sail on your boat someday so i need to be nice :)
 

treeplanter

Active member
I am not sure this is totally fair. I went back and forth in that debate with the poster. I think that the poster just has a very different view of reality. The poster, and many Christians, simply attribute almost everything to God as a default. The idea for the fence is from God. The inspiration is from God. The skill in your hands to build is from God. And they see no need to prove this.

I do think they think for themselves. However, you are very right in that this poster does not support claims with supporting evidence or logic. This is because the poster did not come to these beliefs with evidence or logic. So that approach just does not compute.

Many people have a core, foundational belief in God. That is before evidence or logic. It is the center of their world. It is beyond question. And then they build their morals, beliefs, logic, and life on that core.

You and I are skeptics. Nothing is beyond question for us. However, for a huge majority of the world this is not true.

Anyhoo, just a thought. I think if we show understanding and compassion for those who have this core, unshakable, yet unsupported belief in God we'll have better conversations. In the end we are not going to convince that poster to even question their faith - it is just too deep down. But we can be kind.

I fail at this constantly. But I keep trying to improve myself and my approach.

I consider you a kindred spirit - I hope you take this as friendly chat - I do not intend to attack. Plus I want to sail on your boat someday so i need to be nice :)
No worries - I'm not offended in the slightest!

Thing is, though, with this particular poster...

Yeah, I get that he has, without any real justification, made God to be the center of his world and it is utterly inconceivable to him that his faith in God could ever be proven misplaced and/or misguided

And I agree with you that this poster actually DOES think for himself
It's just that he chooses to then suppress his own thinking for that of God's and has declared as much

In fact, he and I have gone back forth on this many, many times

It has always been my position that this poster is essentially a good and decent person who shares the same basic moral sensibilities as do you and I and most every other human being

It has always been my contention that this poster agrees with you and me and most every other human being that it is evil and immoral to drown babies, condone slavery, kill people for the 'crime' of not believing in God, etc

Again, though, he chooses to substitute God's thinking - i.e. morality - for his own better judgement and refuses to condemn God for doing these things that we all agree are evil and immoral

Of course, he vehemently denies that he agrees with you and me, but the fact that he has repeatedly refused my request that he settle the matter once and for all by simply declaring that drowning babies, condoning slavery, and killing people for the 'crime' of disbelief is good and moral stands as proof positive that he knows these things to be evil and immoral

I agree, too, with you that {an attempt at} understanding and compassion fosters an environment wherein conversations and discussions might prove more productive

I try to be kind

In general, I believe that I am kind to those with whom I interact - until such time that my kindness is met with derision and contempt - at this point, I all too often find myself responding in kind

It's hard to be kind in the face of name calling
It's hard to be kind when certain posters insist upon misrepresenting other posters

Is the OP understanding, compassionate, and kind towards the poster to whom it is addressed?
No, admittedly, it is not

Perhaps I should rise above it, but I can only let so much slide {skate} before I feel compelled to call a poster out for his behavior

My beef with this particular poster is that he CONSTANTLY misrepresents what I say to him
This poster flat out lies about me
What else do we call it when a poster has been corrected and refuses to acknowledge said correction?
What else do we call it when a poster has been corrected and continues to repeat the same false claim?

As explained in the OP, this poster openly acknowledged that he has relinquished the responsibility for thinking for himself and chooses to accept whatever God says as the gospel truth

I agreed with his assessment of himself

This is what fundamentalist Christians do - they insist that God is always right, no matter what - even when God does something that the Christian knows deep down inside to be wrong - i.e. drowning babies, condoning slavery, killing people for the 'crime' of disbelief, etc

This poster then asserted, on the basis of my agreeing with his assessment of himself, that I am trying to impose my beliefs on him and demanding that he think like I do

This, of course, is nothing new
This poster has been making this ridiculous claim about me for some time now

And the claim, itself, IS ridiculous

I don't want this poster to think like me!
I want this poster to think for himself!!

I want this poster to trust his own judgement because his judgement {a judgement that would never drown a baby, condone slavery, or kill a person for the 'crime' of disbelief, etc} is CLEARLY a better judgement than the one that he has chosen in it's stead - i.e. God's judgement!!!

ETA:
Sailboat?
 
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