Soft Model of Libertarian Free Will

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Well it is not my position that that man merits salvation

That idea is a disengenous misrepresentation of one who deals in ad hominem and distortion rather than scriptural rebuttal

It is not an honest approach
In your system your choice merits salvation. In your system belief is not a gift of God, its a product of your fallen nature.
 

fltom

Well-known member
OK, but you'll reject scripture, ridicule, and mock.

Oh, but I will, because I can, and I give Him ALL the glory.

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved--and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Now, as @civic would say;

next
Afraid not

one is saved by grace through faith

Ephesians 2:8 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Hello

There is no salvation without faith

Now as I say

You ignored context and need to try again to justify your heresy
 

fltom

Well-known member
In your system your choice merits salvation. In your system belief is not a gift of God, its a product of your fallen nature.
Sorry that is just a dishonest claim

Faith is not a system of merit

Rather it is a denial of personal merit and trusting in another for your salvation



Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Your claims are not justified by scripture
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry that is just a dishonest claim

Faith is not a system of merit

Rather it is a denial of personal merit and trusting in another for your salvation



Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Your claims are not justified by scripture
No, it's a logical claim actually. Your a provisionist. God merely provides the means and the rest is up to you. It's your theology. Don't run from it.
 

fltom

Well-known member
No, it's a logical claim actually. Your a provisionist. God merely provides the means and the rest is up to you. It's your theology. Don't run from it.
Typical. You just ignored scripture which shows faith is not a system of merit

Why is it people who claim to believe in sola scriptura so often ignore what scripture shows
to tout their theology ?
 

Predestined

Well-known member
What about those who profess a love for the truth of God's sovereign election only to then discover that they are not the elect? One could see how this might result in a less than loving response, no?

What would you do if this were the case with you?
I'm wondering when and how someone could believe they were one of the elect then find out they're not.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Typical. You just ignored scripture which shows faith is not a system of merit

Why is it people who claim to believe in sola scriptura so often ignore what scripture shows
to tout their theology ?
You did not address my points. Your simply deflecting.

Let me repeat. Your a provisionist. God merely provides the means. The test is up to you. That is a system of merit.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
Pretty simple. They were deceived then discovered the truth that they are not the elect.
Yes simple like this:

Election is the simplest of all doctrines to understand, because it just says that God is the one who took the initiative and he chose us. There was once a lady who came to a minister and said to him, “I’m really confused about this business of election. Can you help me?” “I can surely try,” he said, asking her, “Now, Mary, are you sure you are saved?” “Yes, pastor,” she said, “Thank God, by his grace I know that I am.” “Did you save yourself, or did the Lord save you?” “Pastor, you know it was all of the Lord.” “Did he do it on purpose, or was it an accident?” Mary paused . . . “I reckon he did it on purpose.” “That’s the doctrine of election,” her pastor told her.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Pretty simple. They were deceived then discovered the truth that they are not the elect.

But HOW did they allegedly "discover ... that they were not the elect"?

Did God tell them with a voice from heaven?!
Give us a scenario showing this alleged "discovery".
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Well I'm so glad to be a whomsoever. Lets just keep proclaiming The truth And discrediting their false message. There seem to be a lot of people on this board there are quite good at doing that.
Agreed, and I'm glad to be as well! I'm committed to exposing @fltom and his false gospel of merited grace. He is thoroughly deceived. Several others are exposing him, hopefully his poison spreads no further.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
@fltom how long has the new heresy "provisionism" been around?

The terms Provisionism and Provisionist are new to me so I had to look them up.
It reminds me of auto-soterism, in that self-salvation all comes down to this: “I’m a little better than other people. I have a more discernment and insight than most people. I was willing to give God a chance to save me, and it was because of my willingness that God was able to save me.”
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
The terms Provisionism and Provisionist are new to me so I had to look them up.
It reminds me of auto-soterism, in that self-salvation all comes down to this: “I’m a little better than other people. I have a more discernment and insight than most people. I was willing to give God a chance to save me, and it was because of my willingness that God was able to save me.”
It's salvation by personal achievement (works) repackaged. It's a damnable heresy.
 

fltom

Well-known member
It's salvation by personal achievement (works) repackaged. It's a damnable heresy.
Sorry that is a distortion

According to scripture faith is not a works achievement system

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

but your theology is not formed by scripture but a man made system of theology
 

fltom

Well-known member
You're a hoodwinked heretic.
And you are a person unable to rebut what I state with scripture so you resort to ad hominem

and the more you indulge in it the more you highlight your inability

BTW your belief that unbelieving, unjustified, unforgiven children of wrath are indwelt by the Spirit so as to become believers

marks you as the heretic
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
From the first 400 years of Christian history

Free will was the standard

It took 400 years and gnostic Manichean beliefs propagated by Augustine to come up with your position
Which of the church fathers claimed to be a provisionist? Lol
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
And you are a person unable to rebut what I state with scripture so you resort to ad hominem

and the more you indulge in it the more you highlight your inability

BTW your belief that unbelieving, unjustified, unforgiven children of wrath are indwelt by the Spirit so as to become believers

marks you as the heretic
Nobody says they are indwelt by the Spirit. See Ezekiel 36
 
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