Soft Model of Libertarian Free Will

shnarkle

Well-known member
Was God pleased with Cornelius

Acts 10:1-4 (KJV)
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.



So was God pleased with Cornelius

Was he a saved man before his meeting with Peter ?
He had to be. Peter didn't save him, or cause him to be saved. Peter just witnessed Cornelius and his household receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
 

fltom

Well-known member
He had to be. Peter didn't save him, or cause him to be saved. Peter just witnessed Cornelius and his household receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Really ?

Acts 11:4-14 (KJV)
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Really ?

Acts 11:4-14 (KJV)
4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.
8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.
11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Thanks. I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore. I don't understand anything in the bible anymore. I give up.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Thanks. I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore. I don't understand anything in the bible anymore. I give up.
Well it is clear Cornelius is yet saved

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.


and it certainly seems that God was pleased with Cornelius
 

Sketo

Well-known member
If determinism is impossible in the Eternal Realm, then God cannot be self determined. Self determination is still determination.

Doug

In the Eternal Realm Determinism is impossible because there is nothing before or outside of God that determined him to move, or create…

Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

…therefore self-determinism is necessary for God.


In the finite realm self-determinism is impossible because everything relies on God for its existence and it’s moment by moment sustainment…

Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”
Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being

therefore determinism is necessary for All of creation.
 

Sketo

Well-known member
What God is in being is the standard, and to not be like him is to be unholy, imperfect, and immoral.

Does God have the ability to “not be like him”, to be “unholy”, to be “imperfect”, to be “immoral”?… or does that ability only apply to creation?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”
Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being

therefore determinism is necessary for All of creation.
Except it is contrary to scripture that God determines all sin

James 1:13–17 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jeremiah 19:5 (ESV)
5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—
 

Sketo

Well-known member
Except it is contrary to scripture that God determines all sin

You only assume it is contrary because you can not differentiate between what is happening on the Storyline Level and what is happening on the Ultimate Transcendent Level and because of this you pit scripture against scripture!

James 1:13–17 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

The context of this passage is Storyline Level and therefore does not refute the Transcendent Level context of the foundational passages I mentioned in my previous post.

Again… This passage states that God is not the direct Storyline Level tempter… this passage does not deny that God causes people to be tempted!

Matthew 4:1 “Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.”

“The devil” is the Storyline tempter NOT God… but the Spirit did cause Jesus to be tempted!

Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Why pray to God to “not lead you into temptation” if it is not something that he does? If he doesn’t then this prayer is blasphemy.

I see no problem with this passage either because it only addresses what is happening in the Storyline Level.


1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Another Storyline Level Context that does not address, or refute…
Hebrews 1:3 “he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Acts 17:28 “In him we live and move and have our being


You use scripture to deny scripture and can not reconcile the two passages!

1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Correct… these things are “not of the Father”… on the Storyline Level!

However… Hebrews 1:3 teaches that all of these things “of the world” are held in existence and sustained to come to pass by none other than “the word of Gods Power”!

God is the Ultimate, Transcendent Level, cause of why all of these things happen…

BUT you are correct to point out that he is not the direct cause, on the Storyline Level, as to why these things come to pass.

No problem with this passage either!

Jeremiah 19:5 (ESV)
5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—

God did not command it or “SPEAK” it as a proper way of warship.
Neither did it enter his mind as a proper way of warship!

This is the only version that uses the word “decree” instead of speak and it is in the context of a Storyline Level direct command or “spoken” decree across the land… it is not referring to the Transcendent Level context of which these things could not have came to pass by any power other than God.

semi-Deism is a heresy not supported by the Bible!

I see no problem with this verse when you do not conflate the Storyline context passages as if they are referring to Transcendent Level Ultimate causes!

No problem here!
 

fltom

Well-known member
You only assume it is contrary because you can not differentiate between what is happening on the Storyline Level and what is happening on the Ultimate Transcendent Level and because of this you pit scripture against scripture!

Scripture is not an assumption

James 1:13–14 (KJV 1900)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900)
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 John 2:16 (KJV 1900)
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Jeremiah 19:5 (ESV)
5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind—

your transcendent interpretative grid however is an assumption
 
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