Soft Model of Libertarian Free Will

TomFL

Well-known member
Your deflection is an acknowledgment of your inability to differentiate your system of libertarian freewill-ism from flip-a-coin-ism!

Wrong

Its an attempt to show what your either or dichotomy leads to

Either you claim God's act of creation was determined or you affirm he libertarianly created of his own free will

And if you say he created of his own free will you will have to address Was it just random chance that he did




TomFL said:
Is God the agent of his decisions ?
Yes but not by “random chance”! If God had LF it would leave the possibility that his decision could, by chance, land on sin!

Actually you just ignored the definition I gave of a soft libertarian free will

Soft libertarianism, or concurrence, holds that a moral agent has the power to choose in a libertarian sense, but the limits of this ability are decided by his character. While a determinist argues a person’s choice is determined by his character, soft libertarianism contends a person’s character simply determines what sets of choices are available. Outside influences and internal dispositions are factors, but the agent has the ability to take any one of the choices within the set. Possessing libertarian freedom means we genuinely choose, but we dwell in a fallen world so it is not an easy, even, unslanted choice. And we are finite creatures, so the range of choices is limited.

It would in fact carry no such necessity

so it seems my questions already exposed misunderstanding on your part
TomFL said:
Is the ultimate responsibility for his decisions his or another source or power
His.

TomFL said:
Or better yet that which you refused to answer thus far

Does God have Libertarian free will ?
Absolutely Not! 100% Hard No!

We have already seen you have not properly understood the model of a soft libertarian free will model I gave you

So once again Does God have Libertarian free will as defined by the model I provided you with

Or God does not have free will ?(as defined above)

Scripture tells

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

But

Is he determined in your view



TomFL said:
Are God's decisions determined ?
Yes... by his nature!

Are you saying his nature left him with just one option ?

PS I have shown you deciding according your your nature is not inconsistent with a soft libertarian free will

But

God did not freely decide to create but was determined to create?

Is that your view ?

Which is it ?

Did God libertarianly decide to create

or was God left with no other option

I await your reply
 

Sketo

Active member
Actually you just ignored the definition I gave of a soft libertarian free will
Shall we examine the definition...

Soft libertarianism, or concurrence, holds that a moral agent has the power to choose in a libertarian sense
Yeah and this is supposed to be “non-vague”? Maybe it will be cleared up below...

but the limits of this ability are decided by his character.
So 50 options available but, because of “character”, it’s narrowed down to... say... 10 options available... ok got it...

soft libertarianism contends a person’s character simply determines what sets of choices are available.
Ok 2 sets of 5 = 10 options available... got it...

Outside influences and internal dispositions are factors, but the agent has the ability to take any one of the choices within the set.
Ok... any one of the 10... got it...

Possessing libertarian freedom means we genuinely choose
Ok... genuinely choose 1 of the 10... got it...

but we dwell in a fallen world so it is not an easy, even, unslanted choice.
Ok... so it’s a 10 sided die that is lopsided... got it...

And we are finite creatures, so the range of choices is limited.
Ok... 10 sided lopsided die... is that it?

All thats left now is to roll the die... hopefully you get what you “want”...

Good luck...
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Shall we examine the definition...


Yeah and this is supposed to be “non-vague”? Maybe it will be cleared up below...


So 50 options available but, because of “character”, it’s narrowed down to... say... 10 options available... ok got it...


Ok 2 sets of 5 = 10 options available... got it...


Ok... any one of the 10... got it...


Ok... genuinely choose 1 of the 10... got it...


Ok... so it’s a 10 sided die that is lopsided... got it...


Ok... 10 sided lopsided die... is that it?

All that’s left now is to roll the die... hopefully you get what you “want”...

Good luck...
So what exactly did you deal with

I asked you several question about God and whether he had Libertarian free will

I see no answers

You made a statement that God could not have it based upon your belief that would allow him to sin

I showed you how according to the definition that was false

so why did you not deal with it

Why did you not go on and address the other questions ?

..................................................................


Wrong

Its an attempt to show what your either or dichotomy leads to

Either you claim God's act of creation was determined or you affirm he libertarianly created of his own free will

And if you say he created of his own free will you will have to address Was it just random chance that he did




Sketo said:
TomFL said:
Is God the agent of his decisions ?
Yes but not by “random chance”! If God had LF it would leave the possibility that his decision could, by chance, land on sin!

Actually you just ignored the definition I gave of a soft libertarian free will

Soft libertarianism, or concurrence, holds that a moral agent has the power to choose in a libertarian sense, but the limits of this ability are decided by his character. While a determinist argues a person’s choice is determined by his character, soft libertarianism contends a person’s character simply determines what sets of choices are available. Outside influences and internal dispositions are factors, but the agent has the ability to take any one of the choices within the set. Possessing libertarian freedom means we genuinely choose, but we dwell in a fallen world so it is not an easy, even, unslanted choice. And we are finite creatures, so the range of choices is limited.

It would in fact carry no such necessity

so it seems my questions already exposed misunderstanding on your part
Sketo said:
TomFL said:
Is the ultimate responsibility for his decisions his or another source or power
Click to expand...
His.

TomFL said:
Or better yet that which you refused to answer thus far

Does God have Libertarian free will ?
Click to expand...
Absolutely Not! 100% Hard No!
Click to expand...

We have already seen you have not properly understood the model of a soft libertarian free will model I gave you

So once again Does God have Libertarian free will as defined by the model I provided you with

Or God does not have free will ?(as defined above)

Scripture tells

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

But

Is he determined in your view



Sketo said:
TomFL said:
Are God's decisions determined ?
Yes... by his nature!

Are you saying his nature left him with just one option ?

PS I have shown you deciding according your your nature is not inconsistent with a soft libertarian free will

But

God did not freely decide to create but was determined to create?

Is that your view ?

Which is it ?

Did God libertarianly decide to create

or was God left with no other option

I await your reply

.............................................

It did not come
 

Sketo

Active member
So what exactly did you deal with
You are the one who claimed I didn’t understand your definition.
If I don’t understand your definition how can I accurately answer your other questions therefor I figured we could start with the definition...
  • How did i do...
TomFL said:
Actually you just ignored the definition I gave of a soft libertarian free will
Shall we examine the definition...

TomFL said:
Soft libertarianism, or concurrence, holds that a moral agent has the power to choose in a libertarian sense
Yeah and this is supposed to be “non-vague”? Maybe it will be cleared up below...

TomFL said:
but the limits of this ability are decided by his character.
So 50 options available but, because of “character”, it’s narrowed down to... say... 10 options available... ok got it...

TomFL said:
soft libertarianism contends a person’s character simply determines what sets of choices are available.
Ok 2 sets of 5 = 10 options available... got it...

TomFL said:
Outside influences and internal dispositions are factors, but the agent has the ability to take any one of the choices within the set.
Ok... any one of the 10... got it...

TomFL said:
Possessing libertarian freedom means we genuinely choose
Ok... genuinely choose 1 of the 10... got it...

TomFL said:
but we dwell in a fallen world so it is not an easy, even, unslanted choice.
Ok... so it’s a 10 sided die that is lopsided... got it...

TomFL said:
And we are finite creatures, so the range of choices is limited.
Ok... 10 sided lopsided die... is that it?

All thats left now is to roll the die... hopefully you get what you “want”...

Good luck...
 

Sketo

Active member
So once again Does God have Libertarian free will as defined by the model I provided you with
Your model is inadequate to answer this question!

Your model, by title, claims that the will is “free” but it can not account for the final process that narrows down the options to the one finally landed upon!
Because of this gap you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

If it remains a mystery then anything can be a cause that removes “freedom” from the equation!

Example...
Options X and Y are available options... both go into the “mystery machine” and Y comes out as the final choice landed upon... why?

If you can’t answer this pivotal question then you can not claim that what goes on within the “mystery machine” is free!
 
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Your model is inadequate to answer this question!

Your model claims that the will is “free” but it can not account for the final process that narrows down the options to the one finally landed upon!
Because of this gap you have not proven that the one final option landed on was a result of freedom!

If it remains a mystery then anything can be a cause that removes “freedom” from the equation!

Example...
Options X and Y are available options... both go into the “mystery machine” and Y comes out as the final choice landed upon... why?

If you can’t answer this pivotal question then you can not claim that what goes on within the “mystery machine” is free!
"Free" will is an oxymoron just like the word time everlasting or eternal time. Time has a beginning and end and is the result of causes and so is "free" will! One is not "free if one is caused to make a choice through influence of many kinds. :)
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Your model is inadequate to answer this question!

Your model, by title, claims that the will is “free” but it can not account for the final process that narrows down the options to the one finally landed upon!
Because of this gap you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

If it remains a mystery then anything can be a cause that removes “freedom” from the equation!

Example...
Options X and Y are available options... both go into the “mystery machine” and Y comes out as the final choice landed upon... why?

If you can’t answer this pivotal question then you can not claim that what goes on within the “mystery machine” is free!
You still do not answer the questions

Its an attempt to show what your either or dichotomy leads to

Either you claim God's act of creation was determined or you affirm he libertarianly created of his own free will

And if you say he created of his own free will you will have to address Was it just random chance that he did




Sketo said:
TomFL said:
Is God the agent of his decisions ?
Yes but not by “random chance”! If God had LF it would leave the possibility that his decision could, by chance, land on sin!

Actually you just ignored the definition I gave of a soft libertarian free will

Soft libertarianism, or concurrence, holds that a moral agent has the power to choose in a libertarian sense, but the limits of this ability are decided by his character. While a determinist argues a person’s choice is determined by his character, soft libertarianism contends a person’s character simply determines what sets of choices are available. Outside influences and internal dispositions are factors, but the agent has the ability to take any one of the choices within the set. Possessing libertarian freedom means we genuinely choose, but we dwell in a fallen world so it is not an easy, even, unslanted choice. And we are finite creatures, so the range of choices is limited.

It would in fact carry no such necessity

so it seems my questions already exposed misunderstanding on your part
Sketo said:
TomFL said:
Is the ultimate responsibility for his decisions his or another source or power
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
His.

TomFL said:
Or better yet that which you refused to answer thus far

Does God have Libertarian free will ?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Absolutely Not! 100% Hard No!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

We have already seen you have not properly understood the model of a soft libertarian free will model I gave you

So once again Does God have Libertarian free will as defined by the model I provided you with

Or God does not have free will ?(as defined above)

Still no answer

Scripture tells

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

But

Is he determined in your view

Still no answer



Sketo said:
TomFL said:
Are God's decisions determined ?
Yes... by his nature!

Are you saying his nature left him with just one option ?

Still no answer

PS I have shown you deciding according your your nature is not inconsistent with a soft libertarian free will

But

God did not freely decide to create but was determined to create?

Still no answer

Is that your view ?

Still no answewr

Which is it ?

Did God libertarianly decide to create

Crickets

or was God left with no other option

More Crickets

Why are you loathe to address how your reasoning applies to God

Or to accept the fact scripture does not support the idea Godv has determined all of man's sin

James 1:13–14 —KJV
Ҧ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.”

1 Cor. 10:13 —ESV
“No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.”

Job 34:10 —ESV
“¶ “Therefore, hear me, you men of understanding: far be it from God that he should do wickedness, and from the Almighty that he should do wrong.”

and that man has a free will

CSB

Philem. 14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
 

Sketo

Active member
You still do not answer the questions

Its an attempt to show what your either or dichotomy leads to

Either you claim God's act of creation was determined or you affirm he libertarianly created of his own free will

And if you say he created of his own free will you will have to address Was it just random chance that he did






Actually you just ignored the definition I gave of a soft libertarian free will

Soft libertarianism, or concurrence, holds that a moral agent has the power to choose in a libertarian sense, but the limits of this ability are decided by his character. While a determinist argues a person’s choice is determined by his character, soft libertarianism contends a person’s character simply determines what sets of choices are available. Outside influences and internal dispositions are factors, but the agent has the ability to take any one of the choices within the set. Possessing libertarian freedom means we genuinely choose, but we dwell in a fallen world so it is not an easy, even, unslanted choice. And we are finite creatures, so the range of choices is limited.

It would in fact carry no such necessity

so it seems my questions already exposed misunderstanding on your part


We have already seen you have not properly understood the model of a soft libertarian free will model I gave you

So once again Does God have Libertarian free will as defined by the model I provided you with

Or God does not have free will ?(as defined above)

Still no answer

Scripture tells

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

But

Is he determined in your view

Still no answer





Are you saying his nature left him with just one option ?

Still no answer

PS I have shown you deciding according your your nature is not inconsistent with a soft libertarian free will

But

God did not freely decide to create but was determined to create?

Still no answer

Is that your view ?

Still no answewr

Which is it ?

Did God libertarianly decide to create

Crickets

or was God left with no other option

More Crickets

Why are you loathe to address how your reasoning applies to God

Or to accept the fact scripture does not support the idea Godv has determined all of man's sin

James 1:13–14 —KJV
Ҧ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.”

1 Cor. 10:13 —ESV
“No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.”

Job 34:10 —ESV
“¶ “Therefore, hear me, you men of understanding: far be it from God that he should do wickedness, and from the Almighty that he should do wrong.”

and that man has a free will

CSB

Philem. 14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
Again...Your model is inadequate to answer this question!

Your model, by title, claims that the will is “free” but it can not account for the final process that narrows down the options to the one finally landed upon!
Because of this gap you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

If it remains a mystery then anything can be a cause that removes “freedom” from the equation!

Example...
Options X and Y are available options... both go into the “mystery machine” and Y comes out as the final choice landed upon... why?

If you can’t answer this pivotal question then you can not claim that what goes on within the “mystery machine” is free!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Again...Your model is inadequate to answer this question!

Your model, by title, claims that the will is “free” but it can not account for the final process that narrows down the options to the one finally landed upon!
Because of this gap you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

If it remains a mystery then anything can be a cause that removes “freedom” from the equation!

Example...
Options X and Y are available options... both go into the “mystery machine” and Y comes out as the final choice landed upon... why?

If you can’t answer this pivotal question then you can not claim that what goes on within the “mystery machine” is free!



You still fail to test your idea that one's decision making process must be either be determined or random

So once again Does God have Libertarian free will as defined by the model I provided you with

Or God does not have free will ?(as defined above)

Still no answer

Scripture tells

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

But

Is God determined in your view

Still no answer

Are you saying God's nature left him with just one option ?

Still no answer

PS I have shown you deciding according your your nature is not inconsistent with a soft libertarian free will

But

God did not freely decide to create but was determined to create?

Still no answer

Is that your view ?

Still no answer

Which is it ?

Did God libertarianly decide to create

Crickets

or was God left with no other option

More Crickets

Why are you loathe to address how your reasoning applies to God

Or to accept the fact scripture does not support the idea God has determined all of man's sin

James 1:13–14 —KJV
Ҧ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.”

1 Cor. 10:13 —ESV
“No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.”

Job 34:10 —ESV
“¶ “Therefore, hear me, you men of understanding: far be it from God that he should do wickedness, and from the Almighty that he should do wrong.”

and that man has a free will

CSB

Philem. 14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.
 

Kampioen

Member
If God had LF it would leave the possibility that his decision could, by chance, land on sin!
God's nature is that He cannot sin. So God can never choose to sin. However, the conclusion that reconciles Scriptures is that among non-sinful multiple options God has libertarian free choice that is neither random nor uncondtionally predetermined.
 

Sketo

Active member
God's nature is that He cannot sin. So God can never choose to sin. However, the conclusion that reconciles Scriptures is that among non-sinful multiple options God has libertarian free choice that is neither random nor uncondtionally predetermined.
Yep... “libertarian free choice” = “multiple options” into the mystery machine and out comes “one random option” finally landed upon!

Still doesn’t differentiate it from flip-a-coin-ism!

Multiple sided coin” is flipped and “one random side” is landed on!

Explain how “multiple options”, in your model, are narrowed down to the “one option” finally landed upon, without a vague-mysterious answer!

If you can’t account for this pivotal point in your system then you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

And if you can not prove that the one final option landed upon is the result of freedom then the very title of the system is very deceiving!
 
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Kampioen

Member
If you can’t account for this pivotal point in your system then you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

And if you can not prove that the one final option landed upon is the result of freedom then the very title of the system is very deceiving!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Are you saying God determined it ?

That is contrary to the bible which shows God is not the cause of all of man's sin

James 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1Cor. 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Job 34:10 ¶ Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

and affirms free will

Philem. 1:14 —CSB
“But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.”

God's word is not deceptive
 

Kampioen

Member
Who says freedom has to be proven to be true. Does a mystery have to have proof? Does God exist for any reason? That could be said to be a mystery too. And God has freedom. Correct?

Define freedom as in your post above.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Who says freedom has to be proven to be true. Does a mystery have to have proof? Does God exist for any reason? That could be said to be a mystery too. And God has freedom. Correct?

Define freedom as in your post above.
Free from external determination

Philem. 1:14 —CSB
“But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.”
 

Sketo

Active member
Yep... “libertarian free choice” = “multiple options” into the mystery machine and out comes “one random option” finally landed upon!

Still doesn’t differentiate it from flip-a-coin-ism!

Multiple sided coin” is flipped and “one random side” is landed on!

Explain how “multiple options”, in your model, are narrowed down to the “one option” finally landed upon, without a vague-mysterious answer!

... . . . ... (a.k.a. no explination)
If you can’t account for this pivotal point in your system then you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

And if you can not prove that the one final option landed upon is the result of freedom then the very title of the system is very deceiving!

Who says freedom has to be proven to be true. Does a mystery have to have proof?
Are you serious? You claim “mans will is free” and you just expect everyone to accept it without any proof!

It’s laughable that the title of LFism has the term “freewill” in it BUT the definition has a GIGANTIC........................ GAP when it comes to the point of explaining the very process of the will itself!

Libertarian Gap Theory because it doesn’t even attempt to explain the pivotal point of the process of the will... at all!


Does God exist for any reason? That could be said to be a mystery too.
Are you saying man is equal to God?
Man is not God! God did not “create” Gods!

And God has freedom. Correct?
In what sense do you mean “God has freedom”?
If this statement was made about man you would be saying that “man has freedom” to sin... so are you placing God in that same category as man here?

In that case God does not have “freedom”... to sin!

To compare man to God in freedom is just proof of man-centered philosophy!

Define freedom as in your post above.
The ability to act, feel, and do in the natural, as well as in the spiritual, sense apart from any corruption of sin!

This is why your system of LF-ism must account for the Gap, as it pertains to the will itself, because if it remains a mystery then it leaves room for sin, or God, as the cause of the final one option landed upon!

Libertarian Freewill-ism, from now on, will be referred to as Libertarian Gap Theory until the mystery is removed!
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
God's nature is that He cannot sin. So God can never choose to sin. However, the conclusion that reconciles Scriptures is that among non-sinful multiple options God has libertarian free choice that is neither random nor uncondtionally predetermined.
Of course

He uses a faulty definition of LFW

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”
Yep... “libertarian free choice” = “multiple options” into the mystery machine and out comes “one random option” finally landed upon!

Still doesn’t differentiate it from flip-a-coin-ism!

Multiple sided coin” is flipped and “one random side” is landed on!

Explain how “multiple options”, in your model, are narrowed down to the “one option” finally landed upon, without a vague-mysterious answer!


If you can’t account for this pivotal point in your system then you have not proven that the one final option landed on is a result of freedom!

And if you can not prove that the one final option landed upon is the result of freedom then the very title of the system is very deceiving!


Are you serious? You claim “mans will is free” and you just expect everyone to accept it without any proof!

It’s laughable that the title of LFism has the term “freewill” in it BUT the definition has a GIGANTIC........................ GAP when it comes to the point of explaining the very process of the will itself!

Libertarian Gap Theory because it doesn’t even attempt to explain the pivotal point of the process of the will... at all!



Are you saying man is equal to God?
Man is not God! God did not “create” Gods!


In what sense do you mean “God has freedom”?
If this statement was made about man you would be saying that “man has freedom” to sin... so are you placing God in that same category as man here?

In that case God does not have “freedom”... to sin!

To compare man to God in freedom is just proof of man-centered philosophy!


The ability to act, feel, and do in the natural, as well as in the spiritual, sense apart from any corruption of sin!

This is why your system of LF-ism must account for the Gap, as it pertains to the will itself, because if it remains a mystery then it leaves room for sin, or God, as the cause of the final one option landed upon!

Libertarian Freewill-ism, from now on, will be referred to as Libertarian Gap Theory until the mystery is removed!
God is free

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

and man is stated to have free will

Philem. 1:14 —CSB
“But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.”

Is the word of God not sufficient on this matter
 
Of course

He uses a faulty definition of LFW

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

God is free

Psa. 115:3 —KJV
“But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”

and man is stated to have free will

Philem. 1:14 —CSB
“But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, but of your own free will.”

Is the word of God not sufficient on this matter
To be willing or not willing to do something means there is no free will not the other way around. We will or not will to do something out of influenced choices.

There is no such thing as libertarian free will and God doing as God pleases has its own parameters. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
God's nature is that He cannot sin. So God can never choose to sin. However, the conclusion that reconciles Scriptures is that among non-sinful multiple options God has libertarian free choice that is neither random nor uncondtionally predetermined.
Libertarian free will means that one can do what he does independently which cancels out law and order, cause and effect and all influences. Reality is order and has its parameters and its laws of cause and effect and our choices are influenced by these things. Just to have to make a choice is a result of influence and cause and effect/

Liberation free will or any other kind of free will is a fallacy and is also an idol. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 

TomFL

Well-known member
To be willing or not willing to do something means there is no free will not the other way around. We will or not will to do something out of influenced choices.

There is no such thing as libertarian free will and God doing as God pleases has its own parameters. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
That makes no sense at all

To be willing or not willing to do something means there is no free will
 
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