Soft Model of Libertarian Free Will

[Reformedguy]

Its his perogative

again this is scripture

God gives grace to the humble

Proverbs 3:34; James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5; Matthew 23:12; Psa 138:6; Luke 1:52; 14:11; 18:14;

God’s mercy is on those that fear him

Psa 25:14; 33:18; 103:17; 118:4; 147:11;Luke 1:50

Grace is needed to believe

example

Romans 10:14-15 (KJV)
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Why? You have LFW. Just choose to believe. Do your part

 

[Reformedguy]

Ask him

Lol, you have no idea. That's why you don't say and make up dumb things

 

[ReverendRV]

Whatever he believes appropriate

Unmerited Favor is appropriate, right? That's what the Verse says is Abounding, right? Otherwise Scripture abounds since you teach the only Grace of God we need to be Saved, is the Gospel...

Or does some other form of Grace Abound?

 

[fltom]

Lol, you have no idea. That's why you don't say and make up dumb things

Laughable

I quoted scripture you ignored it

The fact is God has reasons why he might grant more favor or grace on some than others

that is fact according to scripture

not made up and certainly not dumb

You ask silly questions rather than heed scripture

 

[Reformedguy]

Laughable

I quoted scripture you ignored it

The fact is God has reasons why he might grant more favor or grace on some than others

that is fact according to scripture

not made up and certainly not dumb

You ask silly questions rather than heed scripture

Then the answer to my question should be easy. Not, "ask Him". The dummy way out

 

[fltom]

Then the answer to my question should be easy. Not, "ask Him". The dummy way out

Your question is silly

Scripture shows God has reasons for favoring some above others

when he decides to express that favor is in his purview

God responds on his timetable

In a verse such as

Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

it is clearly before they know his covenant and thus before they are in a saving relationship based on his covenant

but we cannot know exactly when

 

[ReverendRV]

Unmerited Favor is appropriate, right? That's what the Verse says is Abounding, right? Otherwise Scripture abounds since you teach the only Grace of God we need to be Saved, is the Gospel...

Or does some other form of Grace Abound?

 

[Reformedguy]

Your question is silly

Scripture shows God has reasons for favoring some above others

when he decides to express that favor is in his purview

God responds on his timetable

In a verse such as

Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

it is clearly before they know his covenant and thus before they are in a saving relationship based on his covenant

but we cannot know exactly when

So He shows partiality then right?

 

[preacher4truth]

@fltom doesn't believe in unmerited favor (Biblical grace) instead he believes he merited grace, which isn't biblical grace at all, it is choice meats election, a false gospel of merit opposed to the Gospel of grace.

 

[Reformedguy]

@fltom doesn't believe in unmerited favor (Biblical grace) instead he believes he merited grace, which isn't biblical grace at all, it is choice meats election, a false gospel of merit opposed to the Gospel of grace.

You will notice he never provided the context in which the phrase was used.

 

[preacher4truth]

Your question is silly

Ad hominem, character "asagination".

Scripture shows God has reasons for favoring some above others

Choice meats heresy.

when he decides to express that favor is in his purview

God responds on his timetable

In a verse such as

Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Choice meats heresy.

it is clearly before they know his covenant and thus before they are in a saving relationship based on his covenant

but we cannot know exactly when

Nothing but drivel based off your heresy laden humanistic religion.

 

[JDS]

A better question - What within man determines the final willing option decided upon?

The conscience.

 

[preacher4truth]

You will notice he never provided the context in which the phrase was used.

He never does. Like the Philippian jailer text, he sees that as indiscriminately offered to anyone on the street at anytime. But there is a contextual background to that text saying "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you and your house will be saved." He doesn't respect that context, it is merely seen as ammo against Reformed exegetical truth.

 

[Kampioen]

No… You missed the point. God’s “choice” is different from man’s “choice”.

When we consider God, prior to creation, there was nothing that existed outside of God that could have moved him to create, so determinism is Logically impossible in the Eternal Realm.

God is self-sufficient, self-sustained, self determined.

God is not presented with “options” from outside of himself! For God, determinism is impossible and self-determinism is necessary.
God’s choices are “Active”!

So you say God is self-determined. Well, since that is the definition of libertarianism, I agree, God is libertarian.

When we consider man in the finite realm, a realm that completely relies on God for its existence moment by moment. In the finite realm we observe the concept of determinism where one thing leading to the next thing, and to the next, and to the next. Creature is only presented with options from outside of himself.

So in the finite realm self-determinism is logically impossible and determinism is necessary.
Creature’s choices are “Reactive”!

God is omnipotent. Right? Why do you then say it impossible for God to make us self-determined too?

God is the only true “free” being that is Active, self-sufficient, self-sustained, self-determined.
Creature is reliant on God, Reactive, God-dependent, God-sustained, Ultimately God-determined.

Creature can not “reach up” into the Eternal Realm and claim attributes of God for himself. Man is not “free” from God!

---

So how does God creating man with self-determination give him attributes of God and make him free from God? Does it make him omnipotent? Can man then create another universe? No. Man can only self-determine the options God creates him to have.

… when only God existed…

“Who has measured the Spirit of the LORD, or what man shows him his counsel? Whom did he consult, and who made him understand? Who taught him the path of justice, and taught him knowledge, and showed him the way of understanding?” (Isa 40:13-14)​

How would God creating man with self-determination mean a man could then counsel God?

No. All of your arguments are false. God creating man libertarian doesn't suddenly make him omnipotent or able to counsel God.

 

[fltom]

So He shows partiality then right?

Will you ignore scripture ?

Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.


But

What do you imagine your unconditional election is but unexplainable partiality

 

[fltom]

Ad hominem, character "asagination".

Choice meats heresy.

Choice meats heresy.

Nothing but drivel based off your heresy laden humanistic religion.

Pretty pathetic

I post scripture and you respond with ad hominem

God gives grace to the humble

Proverbs 3:34; James 4:6; 1 Peter 5:5; Matthew 23:12; Psa 138:6; Luke 1:52; 14:11; 18:14;

God’s mercy is on those that fear him

Psa 25:14; 33:18; 103:17; 118:4; 147:11;Luke 1:50

Why is it someone who claims to believe in sola scriptura responds with only with invective to scriptural citation

It leads one to believe your views are the product of a theological system not founded on scripture

 

[fltom]

@fltom doesn't believe in unmerited favor (Biblical grace) instead he believes he merited grace, which isn't biblical grace at all, it is choice meats election, a false gospel of merit opposed to the Gospel of grace.

And you do not believe in accurately extolling what others believe

You would rather strawman and appeal to third party taken out of context quotes

Not exactly a standard a Christian should emulate.

There is nothing man could do that would merit Christ dying for them or God's salvation

To claim what you state is my position is not honest

 

[fltom]

You will notice he never provided the context in which the phrase was used.

A falsehood

The context was given to you multiple times

and you never address the scriptural evidence behind the quote

God is shown by scripture to favor those that fear him and those that are humble

An honest approach would be to deal with the verses

 

[fltom]

He never does. Like the Philippian jailer text, he sees that as indiscriminately offered to anyone on the street at anytime. But there is a contextual background to that text saying "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you and your house will be saved." He doesn't respect that context, it is merely seen as ammo against Reformed exegetical truth.

Actually it is neither exegetical or truth

Show where the Phillipian jailer is shown to have been unconditionally elected to believe while other had this with-held from them.

You speak of context so show that the context supports your view.

You can't do it and can only eisegetically read your theology into the text.

The last thing you can speak of is context for your theology is not found in the text

 

[Reformedguy]

A falsehood

The context was given to you multiple times

and you never address the scriptural evidence behind the quote

God is shown by scripture to favor those that fear him and those that are humble

An honest approach would be to deal with the verses

Showing favor in what context? How many times is that now?