Reformedguy
Well-known member
That would depend on the reason for His choice which we are not told. In your conditional election stupidity. we know God is partial because He chose those who chose Him right?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
In what context did he use the phrase choice meats? Let me dumb it down for you, What was he talking about when he used the phrase?
Once again you ignore scripture
Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
and ignore the point of the citiation you got from James White who ignored the context supplied by the one he was quoting as well as the biblical proof behind it
and no your system of unconditional election is unconditional partiality
Reformedguy
Well-known member
LOL if there is no condition then how is it partiality? You need another break
You were told multiple times
It seems I must dumb it down for you not the other way around for you are not capable of understanding that the
The context had to do with some reasons God might favor one over another
Examples
God gives grace to the Humble
Prov. 3:34 Toward the scorners he is scornful,
but to the humble he gives favor.
James 4:6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
1Pet. 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
Matt. 23:12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Psa. 138:6 For though the LORD is high, he regards the lowly,
but the haughty he knows from afar.
Luke 1:52 he has brought down the mighty from their thrones
and exalted those of humble estate;
Luke 14:11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
God’s mercy is on those that fear him
Psa. 25:14 The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him,
and he makes known to them his covenant.
Psa. 33:18 ¶ Behold, the eye of the LORD is on those who fear him,
on those who hope in his steadfast love,
Psa. 103:17 But the steadfast love of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him,
and his righteousness to children’s children,
Psa. 118:4 Let those who fear the LORD say,
“His steadfast love endures forever.”
Psa. 147:11 but the LORD takes pleasure in those who fear him,
in those who hope in his steadfast love.
Luke 1:50 And his mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
James White ignored that as you do
Prove partiality necessitates a condition
Your theology is one of unconditional partiality
God unconditionally favors one over another
Just the opposite of what the scriptures above show
Sorry but it is you who are in need of a break and in need of a biblical theology
Reformedguy
Well-known member
No, they were dealing with a specific topic. What was it? Were all listening choice meat
Reformedguy
Well-known member
If I choose something randomly like I just close my eyes and grab something and that's my choice is that partiality?
So is yours genius. Watch. In your system how are the elect chosen? Lol
Are you saying God closes his eyes and picks randomly ?
I quoted scripture as to why God favors some
You can only quote your theology
In my system those God choses to save are those that believe
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
again I can support my view with scripture
while you can only support your view with an assumed theology
Are you having a problem reading what was stated ?
The topic is why God shows favor to some.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Flowers choice meats election model is used in the same yet perhaps more subtle manner as @fltom's gospel, it is why God saved and chose them, because they are choice compared to others, which is obviously a complete denial of the Gospel of grace. This false gospel fails to embrace the true biblical state of all the lost. They are all; hostile toward God; Colossians 1:21; incapable of pleasing Him; Romans 8:8; mired in sin; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; ungodly; Romans 5:6-8; dead in sin; Ephesians 2:5; detestable, disobedient; Titus 1:16; unrighteous, lacking good; Romans 3:10-18; evil doers; Colossians 1:21; evil; Matthew 7:11; darkened, alienated &c Ephesians 4:17-20.
The picture these two paint of the human condition is contrary to the true biblical state of the lost, and thus it is unbiblical, humanistic, misleading, and frankly wicked.
Tom makes the same claims, even going as far in saying (a week ago perhaps?) that persons have to be in the right type of mindset to be saved (something along those lines!) and those otherwise cannot be. That is the leaven of choice meats bleeding through his false teachings. This was possibly a response surrounding his errant take on 1 Corinthians 2:14. I've already addressed that asinine human exalting take on this at the time he made the statement under his old moniker.
Flowers has held to this deceptive, somewhat subtle works gospel, performance based election, salvation by personal achievement for years. In the debate he had with Dr. James White he admitted he was saved because he humbled himself, based upon his misusage and out of context take on James 4:6. Both teach man is saved because they've done something. This is where the false gospel of "conditional election" takes people. Nevertheless Flower's is leading many astray from the truth into a humanistic religion, drawing away disciples after himself, not after the LORD; Acts 20:29-30.
I truly do not like engaging either of these two false teachers personally, but I do feel the need to expose their errors to others generally. Those who stay in the word should be quite capable of seeing the basis of their error. Be aware that the attack in response of what I've posted will be centered on glorifying man, his "ability" in spite of the biblical indictment presented.
The picture these two paint of the human condition is contrary to the true biblical state of the lost, and thus it is unbiblical, humanistic, misleading, and frankly wicked.
Tom makes the same claims, even going as far in saying (a week ago perhaps?) that persons have to be in the right type of mindset to be saved (something along those lines!) and those otherwise cannot be. That is the leaven of choice meats bleeding through his false teachings. This was possibly a response surrounding his errant take on 1 Corinthians 2:14. I've already addressed that asinine human exalting take on this at the time he made the statement under his old moniker.
Flowers has held to this deceptive, somewhat subtle works gospel, performance based election, salvation by personal achievement for years. In the debate he had with Dr. James White he admitted he was saved because he humbled himself, based upon his misusage and out of context take on James 4:6. Both teach man is saved because they've done something. This is where the false gospel of "conditional election" takes people. Nevertheless Flower's is leading many astray from the truth into a humanistic religion, drawing away disciples after himself, not after the LORD; Acts 20:29-30.
I truly do not like engaging either of these two false teachers personally, but I do feel the need to expose their errors to others generally. Those who stay in the word should be quite capable of seeing the basis of their error. Be aware that the attack in response of what I've posted will be centered on glorifying man, his "ability" in spite of the biblical indictment presented.
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Yet another falsehood
The discussion had to do with why God favors some not that any earned their salvation
For example
Psalm 25:14 (KJV)
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
God shows his covenant to those who fear him
They still needed Christ to die for them
and they still needed faith in God's covenant
The false teacher here is you as I can support my view with scripture while you rely on character assignation and ad hominem
and btw you cannot even accurately extoll what I stated two weeks ago
I spoke of those who judge based only on worldly wisdom - such will not believe spiritual truth
Those who do not so judge may believe spiritual truth
Further I gave you a challenge and a scripture to address
John 12:40 (KJV)
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
why did God blind those who had no capability to see ?
What might have happened if not so blinded ?
but you never answer it and you never will
it shows you are the false teacher here and the one who does not stay in the word
Sketo
Well-known member
What defines a being as “moral”?
Simpletruther
Well-known member
God can choose, just as we can. However God's choices are determined by his unchanging all knowing nature.
God is not free to choose against his own knowledge and nature. He is bound by who He is, just as we are.
God is not a cosmic dice roller.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
And if these three items do not determine how choice, then there by definition must be a random unpredictable element tongue choice.
Simpletruther
Well-known member
Creation was not cosmic chance. God knew from everlasting He would create, it is part of God's nature to do so. There was no "freedom" for God to do anything other than what He has eternally planned.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Exactly and in context they were talking about salvation specifically. Listen to it again. With ears this time
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Is that what I said? Do you know what a analogy is by chance?
Where does it say God chose you because you first chose Him?
Your view is a illogical contradictory mess. I can easily show with a few questions you will run from or will not answer directly because you can't. Neither can choice meats boy thats why he no longer posts here
Sketo
Well-known member
Yes… God is “Active”. God Determined and Created when only He existed.
Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
This includes every “option” that you will ever be presented with.
It has nothing to do with God’s Omnipotence. This is as ridiculous as if you said “God is omnipotent. Right? Why do you then say it impossible for God to make [another God like himself] too?” (Flowers has already made himself look very silly with his “omnipotent” argument… it’s just laughable now)
You did not design yourself or place yourself in a specific time or create your own circumstances or even power your own movements. Creature can not even originate something as minuscule as a “original” thought apart from what God has already created and sustains moment by moment.
Example: At the very end of this sentence is a period and I will be an external reason the “thought” of a butterfly is in your head when you get there. That “thought” was out of your control.
Acts 17:24-28 “The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, for “‘In him we live and move and have our being”
Creature is not an “Active” being! Your “choices” do not start with you. From the moment of creation you are ONLY presented with “choices” from outside of your control that you are moment by moment “reacting” to. It is the polar opposite with God.
You do not come before anything… not even a “thought” because even your very thought is a “reaction” to something already created by something outside of your control.
The very moment before “your thought” was not a white-box that “you” chose to fill in. Your thought was a “reaction” to circumstances surrounding you and preceding “you”.
Colossians 1:17 “he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
It’s a faulty premise that is logically impossible for all the reasons I have mentioned and it is an assumption that is brought to the Bible with zero foundational justification from the Bible.
No man can not self-determine the “options”. Man is not “Active”.
That is the premise behind Open Theism’s denial of God knowing before man “self-determined” and would reverse the roles making God just another being “reacting” to creatures “creations”. I do not recommend going down this road.
It can be logically demonstrated that any one Eternal, Transcendent, Ultimate attribute of God that is “given” to a created creature will negatively effect an Eternal, Transcendent, Ultimate attribute of God. Which would you like to discuss…
Ultimate Self-_____
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You can't show anything at all
Just as you could not dispute the verses I posted showing why God favors some
you are not able to dispute What I stated which was
In my system those God choses to save those that believe
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
want to try to dispute that ?
Truth be told all you do is indulge in third person out of context quotes and ad hominem
and reading your views into scripture - eisegesis all the while ignoring what the harmony of the scriptures teaches;
pitting old testament against New testament and scripture against scripture