I am glad you are not holding your breath.
Sola Scriptura
- Thread starter RayneBeau
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The way they misread our post and read into our post things that aren't there explains why they have so many false doctrines.
None that are started by God and the fact that RCs keep asking the question, shows they do not know the real body.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Well, I don't know about you, but I cannot see that which is invisible. So please tell me what aspects of the Church are visible. If you can tell me that, perhaps I can better find the Church?
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Then what Church IS the Church and which Church DOES have the authority?
Why is this question so difficult? Why can I not get a simple straight answer to the question? Let me answer my own question: you either are unable or unwilling to answer because you know exactly what I am getting at when I ask the question.
Nondenom40
Well-known member
Oh please. It's been answered. Why can't you give a straight answer on the papacy that I've been asking for? I cited 1 Tim 3. See how easy that was? Your idea of an office of the papacy is just to repeat peter over and over. That doesn't tell anyone anything. If it's an office you shouldn't have a hard time showing us that just like I showed the office of overseer.
this has been asked and answered by a catholic on here over and over and over again for all the years I've been on here. it is asked and answered continually. IF you read posts by other catholics here and also read the responses then you would (or should) know that answer by now. That you don't know the answer or understand is your own doing, by your own choice in this world.
it isn't and it is answered often and continually here. the answer is on here, that you don't read or understand it is on you. you don't want to know it.
there you are - you don't really want the truth, you just want to pretend you do and then sink back into what you want to believe, what is comfortable for you in your world. what apostle or disciple did Jesus call to be 'comfortable' in this life?
why should anyone answer a question for you when you prefer to just answer your own questions with the answers you like and want to believe?
Mysterium Fidei
Well-known member
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
If you define an answer as "Posters have responded by typing words in response to the query" then I guess it has been answered.
I define an answer as not just the typing of words in response to a query. An answer for me is an actual intelligent and meaningful reply to the query that makes sense and responds to the actual issue or issues that have been raised without changing the subject, question begging, straw men, or other logical fallacies.
I did. Here it is again: the biblical basis for the office of the papacy is in the person of Peter and the role he played in the New Testament Church. If the papacy isn't biblical, then how to you explain Peter and the role he played in the New Testament?
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And I cited the person of Peter. You seriously want me to give you a list of all the Bible verses where he appears? That would be quite tedious. I presume we both agree that there was a Peter in the New Testament and that he played a prominent role in leading the Apostolic Church. If we cannot agree on even that much, then any future correspondence is pointless.
It tells you plenty. Read your Bible. Look at what Peter said and did. Look at his role. That is the papacy.
the ccc is not the Bible.
where did Peter claim to be leader of all believers? post the verses.
where did he claim to be infallible at any point in time? post the verses.
where did he get the teachings that he taught to others? if not from Jesus then post the verses that say where else he got those teachings.
where did he discard what Jesus taught and make up some new belief required to be followed under penalty of mortal sin? post the verses.
where did he teach that all believers must meet on a Sunday under penalty of mortal sin? post the verses.
where did he tell believers to confess their sins to him? post the verses.
etc. the list could be very long...
Nic
Well-known member
Sure, funnily enough Luther deferred to the scriptures and the early church to demonstrate to Leo he wasn't making things up as he went along.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
I didn't bring up the CCC. Why did you? When have I ever referenced the CCC on this site as proof of a doctrine? Since you do not accept the authority of the CCC, why would you think I would be stupid enough to cite it as an authority?
Peter didn't. Christ claimed that when he gave Peter the keys. In the Pentecostal Church, Peter certainly played a central role in leading the apostolic community.
He didn't claim to be infallible. What he taught was what was infallible because God guided his teaching.
Ultimately, everything the apostles taught, as far as I am aware, they got from God--whether it be from the Old Testament Scriptures, the Jewish Tradition in which they were apart and or what Jesus taught them.
When they dispensed with the Old Testament requirement of circumcision. That would be one example. The Bible nowhere abrogated that practice. The apostles, however, felt quite free to dispense with the requirement. They seemed to believe they had the authority to do that.
The concept of Mortal or deadly sin, that is, sin unto death was introduced in the writings of John. "All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death." First John 5:17.
Follow the bouncing ball:
All wrongdoing is sin
There is sin that does not lead to death
If there is sin that does not lead to death, it follows from the statement that there are sins that lead to death.
If some sins do not lead to death, then there are Venial Sins. Venial Sins, very simply, is a term that refers to sins that do not lead to death. If there are some sins, or one sin that does lead to death, it follow that some sins are Mortal. Mortal Sin is just a term used to describe sins that are deadly; that is, some sins, or sin that lead to death.
In the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath. Sabbath worship is part of what it means to honor that commandment.
When he breathed on the apostles gave them the Holy Spirit and empowered them to forgive sins. How can one follow the command to forgive sins--if people do not tell them their sins?
To say "Well, you know, like, you know, like he was referring to preaching the Gospel, man." Is no answer. That is not what is said when he gives the apostles the Holy Spirit. He does not say "Receive the Holy Spirit so you can preach the Gospel and through preaching the Gospel forgive men's sins."
Nondenom40
Well-known member
Maybe you should take your own advice?
Your constant evading it the only thing tedious here. Just because you rationalized that Peter is pope with such a vacuum of facts is not my problem. I've cited a very clear passage in 1 Tim 3 detailing overseers and their 'office' and the qualifications. Youre the one saying the papacy is an office. Wouldn't there be a similar verse about any alleged papacy? You can certainly cobble together a bunch of unrelated verses and then say bam, theres the papacy. But that would be only in your mind. Peter did nothing so outstanding anyone thought for a second he was pope. I can make a better case for Paul being pope than you can for Peter. I don't expect a reasonable answer from you, youre protecting your church absent of facts.
absolutely!
Mysterium Fidei
Well-known member
mica said:
that's what catholics usually turn to for what they believe.
but you do seem to have made up your own version of catholicism.
mica said:
what are 'the keys' that He gave Peter ?
having a 'central' role in it does not mean someone is the leader of all people who are believers.
that's nothing close to what catholics claim about their pope. for one thing the pope and the RCC don't teach His word, they don't believe in and follow Him. catholics believe in and follow the RCC and the pope.
Believers in the NT, including the apostles and disciples, did believe in and follow Christ.
Can you post a verse where Peter taught contrary to what Jesus taught him and then declared it a sin to disbelieve his false teaching?
were you part of a Pentecostal church during the time you claim to have been protestant?
I sometimes listen to a Pentecostal church on TV (mostly the music but sometimes the teachings). I've yet to hear anyone on it claim Peter was a pope, leader of all 'Christians' or anything close to that. I have heard them teach contrary to what the RCC teaches about almost everything, including Peter being a pope.
all of the apostles played a 'central role' in spreading His word to others.
the RCC does not do that.
because that's where one finds the 'official' beliefs and rules made up by the RCC.
that's what catholics usually turn to for what they believe.
I don't keep a list of what you post... otoh, you often post things that you believe that aren't inline with 'official' RCC teachings.
why not? other catholics here do it on a regular basis.
but you do seem to have made up your own version of catholicism.
mica said:
so you have no verses to support your claim regarding Peter.
what are 'the keys' that He gave Peter ?
having a 'central' role in it does not mean someone is the leader of all people who are believers.
that's nothing close to what catholics claim about their pope. for one thing the pope and the RCC don't teach His word, they don't believe in and follow Him. catholics believe in and follow the RCC and the pope.
Believers in the NT, including the apostles and disciples, did believe in and follow Christ.
Can you post a verse where Peter taught contrary to what Jesus taught him and then declared it a sin to disbelieve his false teaching?
were you part of a Pentecostal church during the time you claim to have been protestant?
I sometimes listen to a Pentecostal church on TV (mostly the music but sometimes the teachings). I've yet to hear anyone on it claim Peter was a pope, leader of all 'Christians' or anything close to that. I have heard them teach contrary to what the RCC teaches about almost everything, including Peter being a pope.
all of the apostles played a 'central role' in spreading His word to others.
the RCC does not do that.
Nondenom40
Well-known member
More than Alex the 6th or the rcc during the pornocracy?
Mysterium Fidei
Well-known member
Pope Alexander VI is probably the most calumniated person in history.
All the allegations made against him came from enemies of the Borgia family, of which he was a member.
Really therein lies your problem you cannot see the invisible. This means you do not understand the spiritual. Obviously not from Papua, they see into the spiritual realm as if it is a film. Unless you were brought up to see into the spiritual realm, it is all invisible. So why do you think the real church would be visible?
The real believers are visible and they are not a denomination. The real church is amazing. We know one another.
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