Definitely beg to differ. What type of God you worship and present to the world has a great bearing.
Some believe that God predestines all things. If that is so who killed Abel?
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
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Not in Calvinism or normal language
If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.
(John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)
And Calvinism has God as the ultimate cause.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
So a sin nature is of faith then.
And toms Pelagian position would mean unlimited atonement is false
Reformedguy
Well-known member
CookedGoose
Well-known member
You're denying the fall again.
Nope
A consistent application of your theology has God determining the fall
Calvinist; Dr. James N. Anderson, of the Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte NC, in his published work; Calvinism and the first sin, states the underlying proposition: “It should be conceded at the outset, and without embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God…..take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists uphold, and may be expressed as the following: “For every event [E], God decided that [E] should happen and that decision alone was the ultimate sufficient cause of [E].
Calvinism and the problem of evil pg 204.205
John Piper is quoted as saying
The opposite of this definition would be that God is the only being who is ultimately self-determining, and is himself ultimately the disposer of all things, including all choices however many or diverse other intervening causes are.
Beginners guide to free will
all events take place by his sovereign appointment” (Institutes of the Christian Religion, III: xxiii, 6); “God wills all things that come to pass...God desired for man to fall into sin...God created sin.” (R.C. Sproul, Jr., Almighty Over All, p. 54); “God foreordains everything which comes to pass...initiates all things, regulates all things....” (Pink, The Sovereignty of God, p. 240); “All things that happen...come to pass because God ordained them...every evil thought, word, and deed in all of history....He has foreordained everything...the mistake of a typist —even sin....” (Palmer, the five points of calvinism [1], pp. 24, 25, 82, 97-100, 116); “...the counsels and wills of men...move exactly in the course which he [God] has destined...there cannot be a greater absurdity than to hold that anything is done without the ordination of God...men do nothing save at the secret instigation of God...what he has previously decreed...and brings to pass...” (Institutes, I: xvi, 6,8,9; I: xviii, 1).
CookedGoose
Well-known member
Romans 5/18
Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
There's your verse
But that wasn't my point anyway.
My point was you were taking a Mosaic command and applying it to a different covenant
Taking it out of context.
CookedGoose
Well-known member
Who doled out the punishment for Adam eating the fruit?
This isn't culpability, it's cause.
I rest my case.
Wouldn't matter.
Cain and Abel were AFTER the fall
Sorry, that does not say men were guilty of Adam's sin
Mortality and an inherited nature biased toward sin can account for that
Again, you have not shown that God's principles vary.
That any such thing was announced as a penalty for the sin of Adam. See. Genesis chap 3
Sorry that is a falsehood for which you provide no truth
and you failed to address this
- Some believe that God predestines all things. If that is so who killed Abel?
He will not agree to that. He is Pelagian You bear false witness I do not believe man was unaffected by the fall Your effect is no effect at all. Their born innocent remember? And if they die in infancy there is no need for your universal atonement.
forums.carm.org
Reformedguy
Well-known member
And I make you look ignorant. Logically there is only one ultimate cause. Yet to be refuted
CookedGoose
Well-known member
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Reformedguy
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Innocent infants are in no need of atonement. UNLIMITED ATONEMENT IS FALSE
CookedGoose
Well-known member
Show me where you get the idea that even an "inherited bias toward sin" was inherited?
What scripture do you draw from to come to that conclusion?
You mean an inherited bias toward sin
The scriptural truth that all birth is after the same kind and the universality of sin.
Fact is however, you have no scripture that states man is guilty of Adam's sin.
False conclusion. They still are in need of a changed nature and reconciliation
Reformedguy
Well-known member
CookedGoose
Well-known member
Yes, that's what I mean.
Also that there's no imputed judicial guilt applied To Adam's descendants.
Not sure how you're tying this in.
But wouldn't this be the judicial guilt itself?
If we all sin because of Adam
And we're condemned for our sin
We're all condemned because of the judgment handed down to Adam.
Right, I didn't eat the fruit in the garden.
But the sin nature that guarantees condemnation was given to Adam's descendants.
That ☝️ IS the guilt
I can't see how you're splitting this hair.