Some Clarity on Ephesians and the Church

JDS

Well-known member
The letter to the Ephesians, a mystery that required special revelation to and then from a specially appointed apostle to the gentiles. The Mystery of Christ.

1) Written by Apostle Paul
2) Written in 60 AD
3) Written from Rome, 1st of 4 prison epistles (Philippians, Colossians, Philemon)
4) Number 7 of 13 letters he wrote to the gentiles
5) The theme = the mystery of Christ
6) The key verse Ephesians 3:6
7) Jews first in the church Acts 2
8) Gentiles added - Acts 10
9) Acts 2 - AD 30
10) Acts 10 - AD 40
11) Paul Converted - AD 37
12) Today - 2021

This letter explains the theology and logic of God of forming his church in this age and of including gentiles, which is the mystery, into a unified body of many members that began with the Jews in Acts 2 and explains the history of the Acts from chapter 10 forward when gentiles were first added and defines the "purpose" of God in this age. Following is the purpose clearly stated in words that cannot be misconstrued. I have put it in bold.

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he (God the Father) might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him
(Jesus Christ):

This looks forward to the completion of his purpose when a gathering will take place. It has been 2000 years now. This gathering together will be from two places, heaven and earth. The operative word here is "together." There are saints in Christ who have passed, like the apostle Paul himself, and who are in heaven. There are saints who are still alive and are all over the world who are in Christ. These will all be brought together for the glorification of the body, the resurrection of the body, which will happen for us all in a moment in a twinkling of an eye and at the same time, as one, in the dispensation of the fulness of times. This is congruent with the fulness of the gentiles in Roman 11:25. We will meet the Lord in the air and will forever be with him as he takes us to his Father's house. This is the blessed hope of the church. This is the glorious bodies by which the church can inhabit the eternities and the heavenlies. It is what we are predestined for. It is salvation from the possibility of sin. It is the glorification of the body as the physical body of our Lord was glorified at his resurrection at the tomb.

He explains what happens next when we are presented before the Father. Take a read. This is wonderful.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Jesus our Lord addresses the churches in Rev 1 like this.

Re 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

We read about the beginning in Col 1:18 and the ending in Eph 1:10

Now, some clarification on Ephesian 1:1-14. These verses follow the beginning to the end as laid out in the following verses. Watch it. This is very important for the understanding of this letter.

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now, the both and the two are Jews and gentiles in the body together as one. But they did not enter in the body at the same time. This is important to note.

I am going to show a layout of the 4 parts of this building and compare it to chapter 1.

19 Now therefore (4) ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens (3) with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon (2) the foundation of the apostles and prophets, (1)Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye (gentiles) also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Also = a word of addition.

1) Jesus Christ - Cornerstone - Eph 1:6-7
2) Apostles & Prophets - Foundation Eph 1:9
3) The Jews first - Framework Ephesians 1:12
4) The Gentiles Added Later- Framework - Eph 1:13-14

Finished - a temple of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1 has nothing to do with anyone being elected before the foundation of the world but Jesus Christ. The church is the counsel of the Godhead in eternity past. God the Father elects all who the Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ because he elected Christ before the world began. It is that simple.

1 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Isa 42:1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

This prophecy is fulfilled in this age. What do you think?
 

JDS

Well-known member
Pronouns in Ephesians

Having established above that Paul is explaining to the gentiles how the revelation of the mystery, that he has been charged to preach and teach to them, relates to the present age and the intentions of God to make them partakers of the blessings with the remnant of Jews who had believed on Jesus Christ and had received the Spirit and been baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. This is the epistle where we find out the mind of God concerning this age, beginning with the cross and resurrection and ending with the gathering together of all those who have been placed into the body of Christ, both Jew and gentile, male & female, bond and free, living and dead, in heaven and in earth. God has the wonderful power of being able to raise bodies from the dead and glorifying them and taking them to heaven. There is a precedent.

Ep 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Spiritual blessings, not physical. (read Romans 15:27 now)

I am going to insert a parable of the Lord Jesus into this equation now. I hope everyone knows that a parable of the Lord has prophetic qualities.
This will help to understand why Paul became an apostle at a late hour (37 AD) and why it was 10 years between the beginning of the church with the Jews only being called, and the inclusion of gentiles in Acts 10. Compare this with the first 14 verses of Ephesians.

Lk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. See Rom 11:25
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. See Matt 13:10-17 There is a cost for not believing God.

The great man is Jesus Christ.
Supper time is at the end of the day. See Ga 4:4
Those who were bidden and refused were the Jews through their rulers
The servant is the Holy Ghost
The first place he went to bid guests is Samaria
The next place he went is to the gentiles.

The call to the Jewish nation was legitimate and if the Jews would have come like God desired they do, the mysteries would have remained hidden and unrevealed because history would have taken a different course and gentiles would have been blessed under the Abrahamic covenant but they would not have filled up the church. One needs to know this going forward. The generation of Jews who rejected Jesus Christ and committed the unpardonable sin in Matt 12 are mentioned in V 24 where we are told salvation for them is off the table. The end of their generation was AD 70.
Now, for the pronouns in Eph 1.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
This is broad.

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
This is a plural and it means he is writing to the Ephesians and the faithful in Christ Jesus.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
The "us" here will prove to be the Jews who were first in the body and he is beginning to establish the reason the inclusion of gentiles is the mystery that is revealed in this epistle.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
I have quoted OT passages that have shown that Israel were the elect of God. Let me quote it here for you. -
Isa 44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: 2 Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. 3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

All I can say to the above is WOW. And look, he says the same thing through Isaiah as he said through John. I quote. 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
It would have been wonderful for Israel had they believed but through their unbelief it is wonderful for us gentiles because we get the blessing.

The Scriptures also says that Jesus Christ was chosen before the foundation of the world. Read it here.
John 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

This is not said about anyone else. But it is said about those who the Spirit puts in him, that is in his body, in time. If they were his body, it would make them, him. And if he was in their bodies, that would make him, them. It is a great and glorious redemption. Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

I will stop on this post here but identifying the pronouns is key. I will continue later.
 

JDS

Well-known member
Continuing
Paul begins his purpose in this letter in V 3 to reveal the "mystery of Christ" by explaining that gentiles were added to the church after the Jews. This is the mystery and Paul himself was specially chosen for this ministry and taught by the Lord himself in his journey to Arabia after his conversion. Here is the mystery clearly and concisely stated in a single verse.

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, (with the Jews) and of the same body, and partakers of his (God the Father's) promise in Christ by the gospel:

The promise is the indwelling Spirit and to be a partaker is to be included in something that is already begun. This is the message to gentiles in this letter.

From Eph 1:3 through verse 12 Paul speaks of the blessings that God had arranged for his people the Jews in this age. Follow the pronouns here.

V 3 - who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
V 4 - 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
V 5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself
V 6 - wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
V 7 - In whom we have redemption through his blood
V 8 - Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
V 9 - Having made known unto us the mystery of his will,
V 11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance,
V 12 - That we should be to the praise of his glory, WHO FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST.

All the above I believe to be what God had planned for the believing Israel before the world began. It was no mystery that God had promised to put his Spirit in them and write his laws in their hearts. He had made no promises to gentiles and when he gave his Spirit to us it was not to fulfill a promise but was an act of divine mercy and grace.

Now, follow the pronouns beginning in V 13.

V 13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

We do not have to wonder who the pronoun "ye" is referencing because we are told plainly in this verse.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

This "ye" is identifying the plight of gentiles in time past before they were made partakers in the Jewish spiritual blessings of the gift of the Spirit and the forgiveness of sins, salvation through Christ, by hearing the gospel, the word of truth, and believing it, a reference to the beginning for gentiles in Acts 10.

Continuing in chapter 1. Paul offers an amazing prayer for gentiles.

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

There is more to know in this chapter 1, but so far he has explained to gentiles how God related to this one people from eternity past and how he is now relating to gentiles with whom he has never had a relationship. Notice he is not quoting any OT scriptures but he is preaching Christ crucified and resurrected. Gentiles would not be impressed with OT prophecies because they would not know them. The Jews religion with ordinances served to separate Jews and gentiles and make them enemies.
 

JDS

Well-known member
Continuing
Gentiles are made "partakers" of Jewish blessings.

Rom 15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, (not the physical things )their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
Ephesians 3:6
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Philippians 1:7
Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. (Paul's grace is identified here: - Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ)

One of the points that Paul makes to gentiles in this letter to the Ephesians is that God does not make covenants with gentiles, Eph 2:11-12. God has, through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, made a New Covenant. This New Covenant was made with the Jewish people. This is the 5th covenant that God has made with this people Israel, beginning with the Abrahamic covenant, and it is the 8th covenant over all that he has made with men. This is significant because God's number that is associated with grace is the number 5 and the number for new things is the number 8. This is the New Testament when God is first establishing grace as an operative principle of divine dealing with men. He can now do this because the sacrifice of Jesus Christ has taken away sin and God can be just and still justify sinners because their sins have been paid for by a substitute.
and God is reconciled to sinful men by the blood of Christ. Therefore, God has tagged Paul, saved him, and made him the apostle to the gentiles, and this is his mission statement here;

Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Being sanctified means to be set apart. Possessing the Holy Spirit is what sets the saved gentile apart from the unsaved gentile.

This New Covenant in the blood of Christ that is able to set men free from sin is new. Here are some new things that are associated with this everlasting new covenant.

1. Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
2. A New creation in Christ 2 Cor 5:17
3. Corporately, Jew and gentile together in one body - A new man. Eph 2:15
4. This new man has a new destiny, he will have a new body. Rom 8:23
5. With a new name Re 3:12
6 He will live in the new heaven Re 21:2
7. He will live in the New Jerusalem Re 3:12

Revelation 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

We are given the reason that God extended his grace to gentiles in the formation of the church of Jesus Christ and elected them in this body and it must not be missed. It could not be found in the writings of the OT because the call of his people Israel to repent and receive Jesus Christ as his Son and their promised Messiah was real and his promise of the Spirit and renewal was true. It was because the nation through her leaders would not believe in him and they opted to hold on to the Law of Moses as the means to achieve righteousness. This is stated in Romans 10.

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

This would not work in determinism.

One can see why God is making a new thing in the earth but he has not forsaken his promise of salvation to Israel who were blinded in this present time through unbelief, because he says about them when the fullness of gentiles be come in and they are cut off, as Israel was before,

Remember, since Verse 13 Paul is speaking to gentiles about Israel and how and why we got in and what is the Father' plan going forward..

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

More later.
 
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civic

Well-known member
What do I think ?

no one is interested in your sermonettes.

this board is not the pulpit and we are not parishioners sitting in a church.

if you have a " POINT " then make one and keep it succinct and then there can be a dialogue.

is this what you do in real life as well ?

God gave you 2 ears and 1 mouth to listen twice as much as you speak.

But you seem to have 10 mouths and 1 ear.
 
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JDS

Well-known member
What do I think ?

no one is interested in your sermonettes.

this board is not the pulpit and we are not parishioners sitting in a church.

if you have a " POINT " then make one and keep it succinct and then there can be a dialogue.

is this what you do in real life as well ?

God gave you 2 ears and 1 mouth to listen twice as much as you speak.

But you seem to have 10 mouths and 1 ear.
At least he's got a space where he can amuse himself without getting into trouble.
Nobody can help a hard cold Calvinist like you two. It amazes me to see your comments and to know you look at the scriptures through philosophy and do not allow for historical context, ethnic context, prophetical context and biblical context. Many things you men claim is jaw dropping unbelief. Nothing I say will help you. You do not need a whole bible, just some excerpts from it because you so ignore what it actually says that you should be put in jail for misrepresenting God and adding all the things you add. Thankfully, there are still people around who are not like you.

So my advice to you is to proceed as usual and see where it takes you.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Nobody can help a hard cold Calvinist like you two.

Nope, you can't dislodge what the Holy Spirit has given me.

It amazes me to see your comments and to know you look at the scriptures through philosophy and do not allow for historical context, ethnic context, prophetical context and biblical context.

You really are full of yourself, aren't you?

Nothing I say will help you.

That's because you offer nothing of truth or substance.

You do not need a whole bible,

Well, that is YOUR opinion.
I'm happy to have a whole Bible.

just some excerpts from it because you so ignore what it actually says that you should be put in jail for misrepresenting God and adding all the things you add.

Yeah, Mormons tell me that as well.
I don't care about their opinion, either.

Yeah, JW's tell me that as well.
I don't care about their opinion, either.

I don't care about your opinion, either.

Thankfully, there are still people around who are not like you.

What? People you can brainwash with your false teachings?

So my advice to you

I don't recall asking for any.
You really are full of yourself, aren't you?
 

JDS

Well-known member
You really are full of yourself, aren't you?




You really are full of yourself, aren't you?
This from a man who fancies himself as one of the very few specially chosen sinners who has any possibility of being saved and who presents himself in this fashion every day, all day. This from a man who says the gospel is not the power of God unto salvation, except for you, Civic,, and about 8 more. From a man who teaches that the blood of our dear savior did not take away the sin of the world no matter how many times the bibles says it and that the world was not reconciled to God through the sacrifice of our Lord and when the scriptures says in the very last message of the holy Scriptures ""and whosoever will let him take of the water of life freely," I can imagine in my mind a <chuckle> from you.

Someone like me needs to tell the truth and the truth will expose the error. I think this is what you don't like.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
This from a man who fancies himself as one of the very few specially chosen sinners who has any possibility of being saved

Sorry, but that is not my position.

and who presents himself in this fashion every day, all day.

I really doubt you can present any evidence for that.

This from a man who says the gospel is not the power of God unto salvation,

That is a MISREPRESENTATION.
Bearing false witness is still a sin.
You would do well to remember that.

except for you, Civic,, and about 8 more.

<sigh>
Again, that is definitely NOT my position.

From a man who teaches that the blood of our dear savior did not take away the sin of the world no matter how many times the bibles says it

I don't deny that at all.
I simply reject your MISINTERPRETATION of it.
"world" doesn't mean "every single individual".
Never has, never will.

Bearing false witness is still a sin.
You would do well to remember that.

and that the world was not reconciled to God through the sacrifice of our Lord and when the

<sigh>
Again, I've NEVER made that claim.
One day you will have to come face to face with your Creator, and give a reason why you felt it okay to bear false witness against me time after time.

scriptures says in the very last message of the holy Scriptures ""and whosoever will let him take of the water of life freely," I can imagine in my mind a <chuckle> from you.

Why would I "chuckle" at Scripture?
I believe that verse, just as I believe EVERY verse of Scripture.
And when you claim I don't, you are bearing false witness against me.
You need to REPENT.

Someone like me needs to tell the truth and the truth will expose the error. I think this is what you don't like.

ROTFLOL!
You've misrepresented me all throughout this post, and you want to boast about "truth"?
You wouldn't recognize "truth" if it came at you and bit you.
 

JDS

Well-known member
Sorry, but that is not my position.

It is not your position until it is your position. You do not believe the words. You have added many words in your theology to define what God never said. I am not blaming you particularly, I am blaming your teachers. You merely drank the kool-aid.

Your false teaching is the reason I am here telling the truth. Your theology is based on a series of unconnected statements from the scriptures.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
It is not your position until it is your position.

No, it's not my position.
I wonder why you're so obsessed with presuming to make false claims about what I allegedly believe.

You do not believe the words.

Certainly I do.
The standard of whether I believe the words is my BELIEF, not on whether my understanding matches your PERSONAL OPINION.
Get over yourself.
SERIOUSLY.

You have added many words in your theology to define what God never said.

Another false claim by you.
Repent!

I am not blaming you particularly, I am blaming your teachers.

Then you're blaming the Holy Spirit.
Because it was the Holy Spirit who taught me.
So you need to REPENT.

You merely drank the kool-aid.

<sigh>
And you have nothing to offer but false doctrines and lame childish insults.
The only person I see who "drank the Kool-aid" is YOU.
(And FYI, it wasn't Kool-Aid, it was Flavor-Aid. If you're going to insult people, at least get your facts straight, okay?)
Your false teaching is the reason I am here telling the truth.

Nope.
My true teaching is the reason you are here proclaiming false doctrines.

Your theology is based on a series of unconnected statements from the scriptures.

And yet again you make a false claim about me.
Bearing false witness is a sin.
I sure wouldn't want to be you when you stand face to face with your Creator, and have to answer for all your false claims.
 

civic

Well-known member
NEWSFLASH

no one is the slightest bit interested in your sermonettes jds.

if you have any point by all means make one but keep it succinct as we go to church to hear a sermon not on a discussion forum

next..........................
 

JDS

Well-known member
pNEWSFLASH
o one is the slightest bit interested in your sermonettes jds.

if you have any point by all means make one but keep it succinct as we go to church to hear a sermon not on a discussion forum
Your problem with my posting is that I am making several points that are shining light on verses you have been claiming makes you more special than most people that have ever been born. Verses like Eph 1:4, a verse that does not say anything about God choosing a man named Civic before the foundation of the world to be saved through sovereign grace. The mystery of Christ, the theme of this letter, is not to reveal that Civic was chosen first, and then predestination to be saved

If Someone tells the truth about what the passage really means, and proves it, then it might keep others from being deceived.
I am just not going to rejoice with you in a teaching that has God creating most of the world for his pleasure of sending them to hell because it is not true. That is a default truth if he only chose a few to be saved and it is his pleasure in creation because of what he says in Re 4:11 in the KJV.
If he could choose you he could choose any body. But he didn’t according to you.

I am your friend, Civic. I am telling the truth.
 
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civic

Well-known member
Your problem with my posting is that I am making several points that are shining light on verses you have been claiming makes you more special than most people that have ever been born. Verses like Eph 1:4, a verse that does not say anything about God choosing a man named Civic before the foundation of the world to be saved through sovereign grace. The mystery of Christ, the theme of this letter, is not to reveal that Civic was chosen first, and then predestination to be saved

If Someone tells the truth about what the passage really means, and proves it, then it might keep others from being deceived.
I am just not going to rejoice with you in a teaching that has God creating most of the world for his pleasure of sending them to hell because it is not true. That is a default truth if he only chose a few to be saved and it is his pleasure in creation because of what he says in Re 4:11 in the KJV.
If he could choose you he could choose any body. But he didn’t according to you.

I am your friend, Civic. I am telling the truth.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt you are telling the truth I’m still not interested in a post as long as a sermon . It’s just that plain and simple . I’m sure most others here feel the same way as I do jds
 

JDS

Well-known member
Giving you the benefit of the doubt you are telling the truth I’m still not interested in a post as long as a sermon . It’s just that plain and simple . I’m sure most others here feel the same way as I do jds
This confirms my charge against Calvinism. You are only interested in sound bites. So you want me to respond with a sound bite to counter your sound bite. You argue the same sound bites over and over, day after day and nobody is moved or instructed and the same crowd comes on the next day to do it all over again. Nothing or no one ever changes.
I don’t like that game. I know why I am against that religious system and it is not because it has a little error, but it is because it is totally corrupt. I take the time to establish my reasoning and conclusions by considering context and by comparing scripture with scripture. Sound bites don’t work.
May I suggest the ignore feature if you do not like my manners.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
The letter to the Ephesians, a mystery that required special revelation to and then from a specially appointed apostle to the gentiles. The Mystery of Christ.

1) Written by Apostle Paul
2) Written in 60 AD
3) Written from Rome, 1st of 4 prison epistles (Philippians, Colossians, Philemon)
4) Number 7 of 13 letters he wrote to the gentiles
5) The theme = the mystery of Christ
6) The key verse Ephesians 3:6
7) Jews first in the church Acts 2
8) Gentiles added - Acts 10
9) Acts 2 - AD 30
10) Acts 10 - AD 40
11) Paul Converted - AD 37
12) Today - 2021

This letter explains the theology and logic of God of forming his church in this age and of including gentiles, which is the mystery, into a unified body of many members that began with the Jews in Acts 2 and explains the history of the Acts from chapter 10 forward when gentiles were first added and defines the "purpose" of God in this age. Following is the purpose clearly stated in words that cannot be misconstrued. I have put it in bold.

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he (God the Father) might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him
(Jesus Christ):

This looks forward to the completion of his purpose when a gathering will take place. It has been 2000 years now. This gathering together will be from two places, heaven and earth. The operative word here is "together." There are saints in Christ who have passed, like the apostle Paul himself, and who are in heaven. There are saints who are still alive and are all over the world who are in Christ. These will all be brought together for the glorification of the body, the resurrection of the body, which will happen for us all in a moment in a twinkling of an eye and at the same time, as one, in the dispensation of the fulness of times. This is congruent with the fulness of the gentiles in Roman 11:25. We will meet the Lord in the air and will forever be with him as he takes us to his Father's house. This is the blessed hope of the church. This is the glorious bodies by which the church can inhabit the eternities and the heavenlies. It is what we are predestined for. It is salvation from the possibility of sin. It is the glorification of the body as the physical body of our Lord was glorified at his resurrection at the tomb.

He explains what happens next when we are presented before the Father. Take a read. This is wonderful.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Jesus our Lord addresses the churches in Rev 1 like this.

Re 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

We read about the beginning in Col 1:18 and the ending in Eph 1:10

Now, some clarification on Ephesian 1:1-14. These verses follow the beginning to the end as laid out in the following verses. Watch it. This is very important for the understanding of this letter.

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now, the both and the two are Jews and gentiles in the body together as one. But they did not enter in the body at the same time. This is important to note.

I am going to show a layout of the 4 parts of this building and compare it to chapter 1.

19 Now therefore (4) ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens (3) with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon (2) the foundation of the apostles and prophets, (1)Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye (gentiles) also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Also = a word of addition.

1) Jesus Christ - Cornerstone - Eph 1:6-7
2) Apostles & Prophets - Foundation Eph 1:9
3) The Jews first - Framework Ephesians 1:12
4) The Gentiles Added Later- Framework - Eph 1:13-14

Finished - a temple of the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1 has nothing to do with anyone being elected before the foundation of the world but Jesus Christ. The church is the counsel of the Godhead in eternity past. God the Father elects all who the Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ because he elected Christ before the world began. It is that simple.

1 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Isa 42:1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

This prophecy is fulfilled in this age. What do you think?
This part is quite good

God the Father elects all who the Spirit baptizes into the body of Christ because he elected Christ before the world began. It is that simple.

1 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Isa 42:1Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

This prophecy is fulfilled in this age. What do you think?

Shorten your post as many will not read it if too long

and develop one point at a time
 

JDS

Well-known member
Ephesians chapter 2 is possibly the most ignored or abused chapter in the scriptures. These first seven verses in this chapter will establish the truth in Ephesians 2:8-9. We must remember who Paul is addressing this letter to. It is to the faithful in Christ Jesus. We must remember who he is. He is a Jew. We must remember what his special calling is. He is the apostle to the gentiles. We must remember what his goal is in this letter. It is to reveal the mystery of Christ. We must remember why it is a mystery. It is because that the inclusion of gentiles, which had been going on for 20 years at the time of this writing, with many gentiles already saved, was a work that was hidden in God. The prayer of Paul for gentiles in chapter 1 cannot be answered unless this mystery is revealed and understood. Paul will be dealing with Jews and gentiles as two different people groups in the body of Christ in this revelation.

You have seen this already in chapter 1. Now you will see a continuation of it in chapter 2. Since I have been speaking of pronouns, I will continue in that vein.

V 1- And you (gentiles) hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
V 2- Wherein in time past ye (gentiles) walked.......were by nature the children of wrath, even as others
V 3- Among whom (the children of disobedience) also we all (Jewish believer) had our conversation in times past
V 4- But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (Jewish and gentile believer)
V 5 - Even when we (Jew and gentile) were dead in sins, hath quickened us together (us = Jew and gentile - the together word requires at least two) with Christ, (by grace ye [gentiles]are saved)
This is an important distinction because during the apostolic era Jews and gentiles were both saved and in the same body of Christ but two principles were involved in their salvation. For the Jews, the principle was "promise." One can see above that for gentiles, salvation was by the principle of grace.
V 6- And hath raised us (Jews and gentiles) up together, and made us sit together (Jews and gentiles) in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
V 7- That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us (Jew and gentile believer) through Christ Jesus.

Now Paul in the above verse has shown two people groups in the body of Christ and he has indicated two principles of how they were included, and for gentiles without any promises, it was by grace. If it was by grace it could not be by works. For Jews he was keeping OT promises to them.

8 For by grace are ye (gentiles) saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (there is only one gift of God and that is the Spirit, who is eternal life)
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Remember, Eph 1 and how God counseled together to choose Christ before the foundation of the world and also those who the Holy Spirit put in his body. But, we know salvation is not only us in the body of Christ, but Christ in our body. So far little has been said about the body of Christ because Christ must be in our body first then we are immersed into his body as a functioning member by the Spirit. See 1 Cor 12:13

The Acts is the history of the beginning of the Christian Church. The NT letters are the explanation of the history.

BTW, It does not matter to me if anyone responds to this. What matters is the truth is told and the Lord Jesus Christ is exalted and his word is honored.
 
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