Some more "astounding" Mormon misinformation.

jamesh

Active member
Please read the following:

"Soon after Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden of Eden, an angel appeared to them and taught them the gospel (see Moses 5:6–9). The Church was also organized and Adam was baptized in water the same way we have been instructed to baptize today (see Moses 6:64–65). The priesthood was then given to Adam so that he could have authority to perform all of the ordinances of the gospel for his family. With this authority he baptized the members of his family and gave the priesthood to those of his sons who were righteous.

All people have agency, or freedom to choose. With this agency, some of the children of Adam chose to break the commandments. As larger numbers of them made this choice and turned from the truth, they “began from that time forth to be carnal, sensual, and devilish” (see Moses 5:12–13). This kind of falling away from the truth is called an apostasy."

I would like to know where in the book of Genesis as it relates to Adam and Eve did an angel appear to them and teach them the gospel? Genesis 3:22-24 states, "Then the Lord God said, Behold the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." Vs23, therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. Vs24, So He drove man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life."

So again, who was this angel that appeared to Adam and Eve and taught them the gospel and where did he come from? It surely was not the two cherubim that were stationed in Eden to prevent them from getting to the tree of life and it could not have been Satan who appeared to them in the form of a serpent? Where in the Bible did this event happen?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
I would like to know where in the book of Genesis as it relates to Adam and Eve did an angel appear to them and teach them the gospel?
It's not there. But it is there that Adam and Eve offered sacrifice. Who do you think taught them to do that and what do you think they did that for?
Genesis 3:22-24 states, "Then the Lord God said, Behold the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." Vs23, therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. Vs24, So He drove man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life."
All of which, is completely irrelevant to your question.
So again, who was this angel that appeared to Adam and Eve
We don't know. It was an angel, PERIOD. Why do you need to know the angel's name?
where did he come from?
This is a tough question. I'm thinking the answer would be, from God, from Heaven. :rolleyes:
It surely was not the two cherubim that were stationed in Eden to prevent them from getting to the tree of life and it could not have been Satan who appeared to them in the form of a serpent?
This looks to be more of a statement and not a question. For all we know, it could have been Jesus Christ himself. You are aware that angles did call upon men in Genesis, are you not? Or was it only the wicked who God talked to?
Where in the Bible did this event happen?
Let's see if we can figure this out. They were cast out of the Garden, so it wasn't there. It probably wasn't in Heaven that this occurred. What? Do you want the name of the planet where it happened? If you do, it was called earth.
 

jamesh

Active member
It's not there. But it is there that Adam and Eve offered sacrifice. Who do you think taught them to do that and what do you think they did that for?

All of which, is completely irrelevant to your question.

We don't know. It was an angel, PERIOD. Why do you need to know the angel's name?

This is a tough question. I'm thinking the answer would be, from God, from Heaven. :rolleyes:

This looks to be more of a statement and not a question. For all we know, it could have been Jesus Christ himself. You are aware that angles did call upon men in Genesis, are you not? Or was it only the wicked who God talked to?

Let's see if we can figure this out. They were cast out of the Garden, so it wasn't there. It probably wasn't in Heaven that this occurred. What? Do you want the name of the planet where it happened? If you do, it was called earth.
You mean "It's not there in the Bible" which is my point. Of course it's "there" in the "fertile and fanciful" imagination of Smith's mind huh? Since he says it then it must be true. And I'm not asking about animal sacrifices or Cain and Able. This is about the false claim that Adam and Eve were taught the gospel of Jesus Christ by some angel.

How could it possibly have been Jesus Christ? Where in the Bible is Jesus Christ identified as an actual angel? Oh yea, I already know what planet these "schemes" of your god were hatched from, does Kolob ring a bell?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
You mean "It's not there in the Bible" which is my point.
It wasn't a point. It was a question and I answered it. You haven't made a point yet.
Of course it's "there" in the "fertile and fanciful" imagination of Smith's mind huh?
Now you've made a point. Your opinion about our scriptures is irrelevant. Who told them to offer sacrifice? Come on. You must know the answer, it's in the Bible.
Since he says it then it must be true.
Since you say it's not true, then it must not be true. :rolleyes: You obviously can't see the weakness in your argument.
And I'm not asking about animal sacrifices or Cain and Able.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Of course, you aren't. Why bother mingling evidence with your opinion?
This is about the false claim that Adam and Eve were taught the gospel of Jesus Christ by some angel.
So, why did they offer sacrifice?

Why was one acceptable and the other wasn't? Who told them it was acceptable? Your argument is pathetic at best. It was an angel. So, again, who told them to offer sacrifice and what was the purpose of it? Why would an angel tell them to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord? There is obviously a lot going on that the Bible doesn't explicitly declare and I'm only scratching the surface.

It makes sense that someone told them to offer sacrifice and I'm sure that it was for a reason and it might be, just might be, the very same reason that Moses continued the practice. Of course, our critics can't put two and two together even with someone spelling it out for them. They offered sacrifice for the very same reason that the Jews did. They were given commandments by way of covenant looking forward to the last and great sacrifice. The same God who gave commandments to Moses also gave them to Adam. Why would he give them different commandments? It's the same God, the same religion, the same faith.

Joseph Smith may not be right about everything he says, but it is my opinion that he is right about this. But, yet again, you make a mountain out of nothing. I bet you count every changed comma and period in the Book of Mormon as well and build mountains from them. :rolleyes:
How could it possibly have been Jesus Christ?
This gets funnier all the time. When do you think the being who was born as Jesus Christ came into existence?
Where in the Bible is Jesus Christ identified as an actual angel?
What is an angel? He is a messenger sent from God (John 3:34). Who sent Jesus into the world? God did. Did he have a message? Yes. He did. In that sense alone, He was an angel. Galatians 4:14 seems to indicate that Paul saw Christ in that light as well. I have to wonder why that is so difficult for you to accept. What rule book says that God can't also be an angel?

Tell me, who was the Elohim that rose in the divine council to address the other gods. Even though he was the spokesman there, yet there was another to whom this Elohim claimed that every one of these gods were sons. There is a hierarchy that our critics refuse to accept. Jesus did not send himself. He was sent. Jesus did not abandon himself on the cross. He was abandoned. How you guys reconcile these conundrums is beyond me. Simply ignoring them does not make them go away.

You asked who the angel was. I don't know. I don't have a problem with recognizing that God can be an angel and it doesn't affect his standing one bit. I merely suggested that the being who taught them the gospel of Jesus Christ could have been Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve certainly knew him, wasn't he also in the Garden with the Father? Of course, Genesis doesn't spell this out either but it would make sense regardless of your doctrines on the Trinity, wouldn't it?
Oh yea, I already know what planet these "schemes" of your god were hatched from, does Kolob ring a bell?
Nope. Care to explain how you think that fits into this conversation at all?
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
I find it amazing that in the world of unknowns that anyone can claim that anyone who differs from their own weak knowledge is wrong. There is no proof that Adam ever existed. But, if we're going to use the Bible for evidence then there's no reason to expunge any of it just because it happens to disagree with your views.

Angels spoke to the children of Adam, specifically to one who committed an atrocious sin. It seems unlikely that an angel would speak to him and not Adam. And, as I asked before, who told Adam to offer sacrifice? They seemed to be aware that their offerings were either acceptable to God or not. Who told them it was?

So, we know that angels from God spoke to Adam and his posterity. We know that they offered sacrifice to God and we know that God found it acceptable. Those are facts gleaned from what little information we have from the Bible. I believe we all agree that the God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT. It's the same gospel. My question is why wouldn't God teach Adam the gospel? Whether Himself, as they certainly had face-to-face meetings in the Garden, or by an angel? It's not like God didn't have a chance and it's not like Adam an evil man, not that it would matter. We already have ample information that God would talk to evil men. Besides, where there is no law, there is no sin. There would have been no reason to condemn Cain for the sin he committed unless they had the law.
 

jamesh

Active member
Here you go again, changing the subject to the offering of sacrifices of Adam and Eve's kids. This is a clear statement from your own sources along with an explanation.


I read the Moses and Alma references and find it interesting that God says one thing, and the angel who appeared to them says something else from the Moses reference. First of all can you please define the gospel? Secondly, why were Adam and Eve given this gospel in the OT when the gospel (which is the new covenant came about in the New Testament when Jesus Christ incarnated?

The people in the OT were under the law and sacrifices were required as well as the Priesthood. When we get to the NT sacrifices were abolished and so was the Priesthood because Jesus Christ was an eternal priest and we are under grace, not works or sacrifices.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Please read the following:

"Soon after Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden of Eden, an angel appeared to them and taught them the gospel (see Moses 5:6–9). The Church was also organized and Adam was baptized in water the same way we have been instructed to baptize today (see Moses 6:64–65). The priesthood was then given to Adam so that he could have authority to perform all of the ordinances of the gospel for his family. With this authority he baptized the members of his family and gave the priesthood to those of his sons who were righteous.

All people have agency, or freedom to choose. With this agency, some of the children of Adam chose to break the commandments. As larger numbers of them made this choice and turned from the truth, they “began from that time forth to be carnal, sensual, and devilish” (see Moses 5:12–13). This kind of falling away from the truth is called an apostasy."

I would like to know where in the book of Genesis as it relates to Adam and Eve did an angel appear to them and teach them the gospel? Genesis 3:22-24 states, "Then the Lord God said, Behold the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." Vs23, therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. Vs24, So He drove man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life."

So again, who was this angel that appeared to Adam and Eve and taught them the gospel and where did he come from? It surely was not the two cherubim that were stationed in Eden to prevent them from getting to the tree of life and it could not have been Satan who appeared to them in the form of a serpent? Where in the Bible did this event happen?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
It's not in the Bible, if it was there would wouldn't be a need for the book of Moses.

Your core argument is that because Mormonism is wrong because it isn't Christianity. Ok. I'm not sure if anyone is making an argument to the contrary, but it doesn't get us any closer to the truth. Just like an atheist uses atheist reasoning to "prove" the Bible false. The argument has no traction. You have to find how the religion itself is self-contradictory to prove that it's corrupt.

Not to change the subject, but just an example - Eternal Life is knowing God (John 17:3), but believers of the Trinity (not found explicitly in the Bible) talk about how God is a mystery and can't really be known to finite man - to me, that's a contradiction which tells me the doctrine of the Trinity is false.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Here you go again, changing the subject to the offering of sacrifices of Adam and Eve's kids
No change. You just aren't answering the questions, but that's okay. I answered them for you. I'm sure others will be able to make the connection even if you can't or won't.
  • Adam, Eve, and their children were taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (see Moses 5:4–9, 14–15, 58–59; see also Alma 12:26–33).
Obviously, they were for the reasons from the Bible that I pointed out. Ignoring them won't make it go away.
First of all can you please define the gospel? Secondly, why were Adam and Eve given this gospel in the OT when the gospel (which is the new covenant came about in the New Testament when Jesus Christ incarnated?
The gospel has never changed. It is the same gospel in both the OT and the NT. The gospel, which means good news, is the message that all mankind may be saved through Jesus Christ and him crucified. Adam knew it. Noah knew it. Abraham, Moses, and all the prophets knew it.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
It's not in the Bible, if it was there would wouldn't be a need for the book of Moses.

Your core argument is that because Mormonism is wrong because it isn't Christianity. Ok. I'm not sure if anyone is making an argument to the contrary, but it doesn't get us any closer to the truth. Just like an atheist uses atheist reasoning to "prove" the Bible false. The argument has no traction. You have to find how the religion itself is self-contradictory to prove that it's corrupt.

Not to change the subject, but just an example - Eternal Life is knowing God (John 17:3), but believers of the Trinity (not found explicitly in the Bible) talk about how God is a mystery and can't really be known to finite man - to me, that's a contradiction which tells me the doctrine of the Trinity is false.
Eternal Life is not knowing Joseph Smith's god(gods). You use Bible verses to support your Mormon claims, but the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price contradicts the Bible.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Because I've read the fiction that Joseph Smith pawned on people claiming he got it from God. I not only read it, I prayed about it.
And who are you to declare what is God's word and what is not?

BTW, which elder of the Melchizedek Priesthood baptized Adam?
I don't know. All it says is "64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water."
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Who am I? A Christian who was regenerated by the Holy Spirit and brought to Christ is who I am. Who are you to tell me otherwise?

Yes, I read verse 64. Mormonism says you need to need to be baptized by an elder.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Secondly, why were Adam and Eve given this gospel in the OT when the gospel (which is the new covenant came about in the New Testament when Jesus Christ incarnated?

That's not a Christian doctrine. Paul explained Abraham, who lived more than four centuries before the Mosaic Law was given--lived under the gospel:

Galatians 3:8---King James Version
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

As Paul testified to--the Mosaic Law was ADDED because of transgressions:

Galatians 3:19---King James Version
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

"added" to what? Just what was present with Abraham, over 400 years prior to the Mosaic Law--the gospel.

The people in the OT were under the law and sacrifices were required as well as the Priesthood. When we get to the NT sacrifices were abolished and so was the Priesthood because Jesus Christ was an eternal priest and we are under grace, not works or sacrifices.

If the priesthood was abolished--then the testimony of John is false:

Revelation 1:6---King James Version
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
 
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