Son of Man and Ancient of Days. = Trinity

Photine

Well-known member
Exactly opposite of what you are thinking in your fleshly mind.

What did I say earlier? :

God is Spirit and is not a Person like humans. He can only send His Spirit.

The Father is only a title and not a Person. He is Personalized only on the basis of His Firstborn Son (The True Israel).

In the OT Yahuah presented Himself as The Father of covenant Israel, His firstborn son.

Your problem is your traditional of Christianity of multiple Persons of God. That thinking will blind you when reading scriptures.

If you see clearly in Isaiah 9:6, The given to us is called Everlasting Father (Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, everlasting Father - were attributed to Yahuah).

Isaiah 28:29 Even this has come from יהוה of hosts, who did wonders in counsel, who made wisdom great.

Jer 32:18 who show loving-commitment to thousands, and repay the crookedness of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them – the Great, the Mighty Ěl, יהוה of hosts is His Name,

Isaiah 64: 8 And now, O יהוה, You are our Father. We are the clay, and You our potter. And we are all the work of Your hand.

You can't skip certain scriptures to teach against other scriptures. Scriptures are harmonious whole.

God as Father is Spirit and as The Son is Man. Diversified God! Not two/three Persons.

If you really have any discernment Yahusha Messiah is Yahuah:

Phil 2:
ܘܟܠ ܠܫܢ ܢܘܕܐ ܕܡܪܝܐ ܗܘ ܝܫܘܥ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܠܫܘܒܚܐ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܐܒܘܗܝ
11 and every tongue will profess that MarYa {The Lord-YHWH} is Eshu Meshikha {Yeshua, The Anointed One}, unto The Glory of Alaha {God}, His Father.

You said the Father is the Holy Spirit, and then you said the Father sends the Holy Spirit.. You are not making sense. Does the Father send Himself?
 

Anthony

Well-known member
What about the Holy Spirit? A second spirit???
Again you have a problem in your mind. Leave out your English semantics.

I told you that God is Spirit Spirit Spirit Spirit Spirit and not a Person.

God as Spirit is The Father and He is not a Person.

God as Spirit sends Spirit. Not a 2ndary Spirit. God is Holy Spirit!.

The Father is a title and not a distinct Person from His Spirit neither The Son is a 2nd Person.distinct Person.

Holy Spirit is not a 2ndary Spirit and The Son is not a 2nd Person. It's the same God in diversification in Administration within the Assembly. When I speak of Assembly, I am not speaking of Christian churches but Assembly of Israel.
 

Photine

Well-known member
Again you have a problem in your mind. Leave out your English semantics.

I told you that God is Spirit Spirit Spirit Spirit Spirit and not a Person.

You have the Father, who you call the Holy Spirit sending the Holy Spirit. Make it make sense. You have the Father sending the Father.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Something, you always miss is that Yahusha Messiah leads His people by being The Captain Himself. Thats His simplicity by being in the Form of God.
Something that you miss is the same God who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and opend up in him who He is and all of His heaven in that man as He does in us all who will recover the same from Him.
Everybody is running after God as The Father Who in Spirit can't be known.
Only cant be known by you,, but all of us when we saw Him as He is became like Him. And when you see Him as He id ye shall be like Him as well. 1 John 3, read it. But then you would haver yo believe it wouldn't you.

And just as Jesus Said in Luke 17:20-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is within you, or is supposed to be within you.
God as Spirit is neither tangible nor a person Who can be known.
Not tangible least you have received from Him that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16, You cant know Him at all without the same in you.
All the fullness of God is in the Bodily form of Yahusha Messiah.

Yes' God is the head of my body, my Godhead bodily, just as He was Jesus g=head and Jesus was His body no different at all. You however has separated yourself from Him and gone your own ways for a god that you have created that you can control instead of the same God who controlled Jesus and sent him.

Here is what Jesus had to say about that, but then you would have to Believe Jesus in what he says of himself and his God who sent him without adding to or taking away from what he said wouldn't you.

Now we will hear your excuses why Jesus was wrong won't we?

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.
John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joihn 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
If God is a Spirit who can be several people at once to accomplish things on earth...
Yes, God as Spirit can accomplish lots of things on heaven or earth but creatures would not benefit nor know Who their God is. Thats why everything in heaven and earth whether invisible or visible are created in, through and for Yahusha Messiah.

Col 1:
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all things have been created by him and for him.

He is the very image of God's substance:

Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification for sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

All fullness of Deity dwells in Bodily form of Yahusha Messiah and we are complete in Him:

Col 2:
9 For in him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

10 and in him you are made full, who is the head of all principality and power;

I don't see any point in seeking God beyond Him. Beyond Him is no man's land. Thats why I against those teachers of various 'isms' of Christianity.



why there is a "Lamb of God" in heavens taking a sealed scroll from the hand of the One seated on the throne (Rev. 5:1-10)?
John is given revelation in imageries. One sitting on Throne and The Lamb aren't two distinct Persons. It's called duality of powers within God

If you see it's always God and The Lamb together in the Book of Revelation:

Rev 22: 1 He showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God a and of the Lamb,

Rev 22:
3 There will be no curse any more. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants serve him.

4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.

God is identified in The Lamb

Rev 21:22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

I feel very sorry that majority are blinded by their traditional denominations.

We are to have the mind of Yahusha Messiah which explains God's humility in love for His elect.
Why is God speaking to Jesus on earth in front of his followers (Matt. 17:1-9)?
Mat 17:1-9 is a vision seen only by the 3 disciples of Yahusha Messiah. They see Yahusha Messiah as being transfigured and see Moses (representing Torah) and Elijah (Representing Prophets) on the mount speaking with Yahusha Messiah.

The sufferings and the glory of Yahusha Messiah was testified in the Torah and The Prophets. There is a witness from heaven as from The Father testifying ti the disciples to believe in the Torah and The Prophets concerning His Son Yahusha Messiah.

Most people read scriptures from their carnal ability which will lead them to error after error.

My only intent is to witness to these people and not falling into Theological debates which gives rise to strifes.

I am not going to repeat the same things again and again. The salvation is God's work alone.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
Yep, but that does change the fact that Photine believes Jesus is YHWH. You need to slow down and think, adjusting how you say things to the position of the person you're speaking with.
If he believes Yahusha Messiah is Yahuah Himself manifest in flesh, he can't believe in Yahuah tobe two Persons. Very simple! He believes Yahusha is the Holy Spirit of God.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
You have the Father, who you call the Holy Spirit sending the Holy Spirit. Make it make sense. You have the Father sending the Father.
As I told you, it makes no sense to carnal mind. Just because Holy Spirit is spoken apart from the Father, it doesn't mean He is not The Father of The Son brought forth.

You are confused between The Father and The Holy Spirit in Anointing.

You must study Torah and Historical Israel to understand God and His works. NT assumes the readers already know the Torah, Prophets, Psalmist. The readers are from Israel - Both ethnic Jews and the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Christianity is very very different with its replacement Theology.
 

Photine

Well-known member
As I told you, it makes no sense to carnal mind. Just because Holy Spirit is spoken apart from the Father, it doesn't mean He is not The Father of The Son brought forth.

You are confused between The Father and The Holy Spirit in Anointing.

You must study Torah and Historical Israel to understand God and His works. NT assumes the readers already know the Torah, Prophets, Psalmist. The readers are from Israel - Both ethnic Jews and the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Christianity is very very different with its replacement Theology.

The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from the Father and does not speak of Himself. He is not the Father. You deny Him.

You don't know the difference between the Father and His Spirit, who are distinct persons, because you have a carnal mind.

Isaiah 48:16
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Ps 104:30
When you send forth your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

Ez 37:14
I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

Deal with it.
 

Photine

Well-known member
If he believes Yahusha Messiah is Yahuah Himself manifest in flesh, he can't believe in Yahuah tobe two Persons. Very simple! He believes Yahusha is the Holy Spirit of God.

Yes I can, I'm just not a oneness like you. The Father was never seen, only the Son. The Father judges no one, He has entrusted all judgement to the Son. They're two distinct persons. Your carnal mind cannot comprehend it.

Deal with it.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Yes I can, I'm just not a oneness like you. The Father was never seen, only the Son. The Father judges no one, He has entrusted all judgement to the Son. They're two distinct persons. Your carnal mind cannot comprehend it.

Deal with it.

If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear...
1 Peter 1:17
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
You are mistaken as Paul called Jesus Yahweh.

Joel 2:32: Hebrew: “Everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh will be saved.”

Joel 2:32 Greek Septuagint: “Everyone who calls on the name of Kurios will be saved.”

Romans 10:13 “Everyone who calls on the name of Lord will be saved.”


The Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4-5:
Hebrew: “Listen O Israel, Yahweh is our Elohim, Yahweh is one.

Greek Septuagint: “Hear O Israel, Kurios is our theos, Kurios is one. κύριος ὁ θεὸς ἡμῶν κύριος εἷς ἐστιν
Why are Trinitarians so afraid of the contexts of their biblical quotes?

Rom. 10:9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.
11 For the scripture says:
No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” (Is. 28:16 last part, in the LXX)
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For
everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” (Joel 2:32)
14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written:
How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!” (Is. 52:7)
16 Nevertheless, they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says:
Jehovah, who has put faith in the thing heard from us?” (Is. 53:1)
17 So faith follows the thing heard. In turn, what is heard is through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact,
into all the earth their sound went out, and to the ends of the inhabited earth their message.” (Psal. 19:4)

...because their errors in understanding are easily detected in the context.

Some very confused people want to believe that Paul was a Trinitarian and that he considered Jesus the same as Jehovah. What a stupid idea!!! When Paul preached to the Gentiles, he first preached to them about Jehovah God, and then he spoke about Jesus as the Messiah. He could not talk about Jesus without first talking about his Father, because the Gentiles did not know Jehovah like the Jews did. That's why he cites many passages where Jehovah's name appears... IT IS NOT that he wants people to believe that they are both the same person, as Trinitarians mistakenly believe.
 

Anthony

Well-known member
You have the Father, who you call the Holy Spirit sending the Holy Spirit. Make it make sense. You have the Father sending the Father.
You are a confused man not knowing God.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

How was God in Messiah? It was God Who is Spirit/The Father.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he
doeth the works.
Was Father a Person or Spirit? Do you thing that a Person called The Father was sitting on The Son's back? Silly!
Who raised Yahusha Messiah from the dead?:
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Yeshua Mashikha, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Rom 8: 11 But if the Spirit of him who raised up Yeshua from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
it's The Father; The Spirit of the Father raised Yahusha Messiah from the dead.
John 2: 19 & 21 says Yahusha Messiah Himself raised His Body from the dead.
19 Yeshua answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
21 But he spoke of the temple of his body.


It doesn't take 2 or 3 Persons to raise Yahusha Messiah from the dead. The scriptures reveal that Yahusha Messiah's own Spirit is The Father and His Body is The Temple of God/Father/Holy Spirit.
It's evident that The Holy Spirit is The Father as well as His Spirit. God is Spirit, Soul and Body in Whose image Man is created.
if you don't understand this I can't help you. There are no multi-personal God. There is no Binitarianism not Trinitarianism. These doctrines are from Christianity out of Greco-Roman culture and not of Hebrew heritage of scriptures.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Why are Trinitarians so afraid of the contexts of their biblical quotes?

Rom. 10:9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.
11 For the scripture says:
No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” (Is. 28:16 last part, in the LXX)
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. 13 For
everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” (Joel 2:32)
14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written:
How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!” (Is. 52:7)
16 Nevertheless, they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says:
Jehovah, who has put faith in the thing heard from us?” (Is. 53:1)
17 So faith follows the thing heard. In turn, what is heard is through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact,
into all the earth their sound went out, and to the ends of the inhabited earth their message.” (Psal. 19:4)

...because their errors in understanding are easily detected in the context.

Some very confused people want to believe that Paul was a Trinitarian and that he considered Jesus the same as Jehovah. What a stupid idea!!! When Paul preached to the Gentiles, he first preached to them about Jehovah God, and then he spoke about Jesus as the Messiah. He could not talk about Jesus without first talking about his Father, because the Gentiles did not know Jehovah like the Jews did. That's why he cites many passages where Jehovah's name appears... IT IS NOT that he wants people to believe that they are both the same person, as Trinitarians mistakenly believe.
A stupid idea is believing Michael the archangel is Jesus.
 

Lilel01

Well-known member
You think that because you are full of wrong ideas, and can't comprehend the true ones. :cool:

Look:

Dan. 10:21 21 However, I will tell you the things recorded in the writings of truth. There is no one strongly supporting me in these things but Michael, your prince.

If Michael is not Jesus, then, according to what that angel said, Michael should be stronger than Jesus himself before being born as human, cause only Michael could help the angel on those needs. ERGO Michael is Jesus.

Actually. Jesus in heaven was the prince of Israel, who was with them "with the name of Jehovah on him" (Ex. 23:20-23) ... Everybody knows that. ERGO Jesus is Michael, the prince of Daniel's people (Dan. 12:1).

You are just ignoring too many reasonings that don't fit inside your brain. :LOL:
 
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Anthony

Well-known member
A stupid idea is believing Michael the archangel is Jesus.
Michael The Archangel signifies Yahusha Messiah as The Head of Angelic beings. Michael in Hebrew means Who is like God!

However, Yahusha Messiah was Yahuah in Spirit before coming down from heaven.

The scriptures reveal duality of powers within Yahuah as The Upper Case as invisible God and in Lower Case, He is both Head of Angelic beings and Mankind.

He is both The Creator as well as the Firstborn over all creation.

Col 1:
15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

16 For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all things have been created by him and for him.

17 He is before all things, and in him all things are held together.

18 He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For all the fullness was pleased to dwell in him,

Many 'isms' as well as JW have risen from not understanding that in the same Yahuah, a duality of powers exist.

The same duality we see in Yahusha Messiah when He speaks of being subordinate to The Father and at other times He claimed to be ' Before Abraham, I AM'.

In Spirit, He is The Father and in Temple of His Body He is The Son:


Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born. To us a son is given; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6 teaches duality of powers. While The government of God rests on the shoulders of The Son Who is the Prince of Peace (with God) , He is also The Mighty God and Everlasting Father Who gives authority to The Son.

Scriptures are spiritual in nature and we must have spiritual discernment to rightly divide the truth.

Another example of duality of powers is Psalm 110;1-5 which is both same Yahuah on the Right Hand of Yahuah (v5). It's being directly refered to by Yahusha Messiah Himself in Matthew 22:42-45 where He claims to be Yahuah Who can't be the son of David.

Aramaic Peshitta (Aramaic is older than modern available Greek manuscripts. Let's see Peshitta, a translation of Aramaic:

ܘܐܡܪ ܡܢܐ ܐܡܪܝܢ ܐܢܬܘܢ ܥܠ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܒܪ ܡܢܘ ܐܡܪܝܢ ܠܗ ܒܪ ܕܘܝܕ
42 and said, “What do you say about Meshikha {The Anointed One}? Whose Son is He?” They were saying unto Him, “The Son of David.”

ܐܡܪ ܠܗܘܢ ܘܐܝܟܢܐ ܕܘܝܕ ܒܪܘܚ ܩܪܐ ܠܗ ܡܪܝܐ ܐܡܪ ܓܝܪ
43 He said unto them, “And how does David, through The Spirit, call Him 'MarYa {The Lord-YHWH}?' For, he said

ܕܐܡܪ ܡܪܝܐ ܠܡܪܝ ܕܬܒ ܠܟ ܡܢ ܝܡܝܢܝ ܥܕܡܐ ܕܐܣܝܡ ܒܥܠܕܒܒܝܟ ܬܚܝܬ ܪܓܠܝܟ
44 that ‘MarYa {The Lord-YHWH} said unto Mari {My Lord}, that You must sit at My right, until I place Your enemies under Your feet.’”

ܐܢ ܗܟܝܠ ܕܘܝܕ ܩܪܐ ܠܗ ܡܪܝܐ ܐܝܟܢܐ ܒܪܗ ܗܘ
45 If therefore, David calls Him MarYa {The Lord-YHWH}, how is He his Son?
 

Photine

Well-known member
You are a confused man not knowing God.

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

How was God in Messiah? It was God Who is Spirit/The Father.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he
doeth the works.
Was Father a Person or Spirit? Do you thing that a Person called The Father was sitting on The Son's back? Silly!
Who raised Yahusha Messiah from the dead?:
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Yeshua Mashikha, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Rom 8: 11 But if the Spirit of him who raised up Yeshua from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
it's The Father; The Spirit of the Father raised Yahusha Messiah from the dead.
John 2: 19 & 21 says Yahusha Messiah Himself raised His Body from the dead.
19 Yeshua answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
21 But he spoke of the temple of his body.


It doesn't take 2 or 3 Persons to raise Yahusha Messiah from the dead. The scriptures reveal that Yahusha Messiah's own Spirit is The Father and His Body is The Temple of God/Father/Holy Spirit.
It's evident that The Holy Spirit is The Father as well as His Spirit. God is Spirit, Soul and Body in Whose image Man is created.
if you don't understand this I can't help you. There are no multi-personal God. There is no Binitarianism not Trinitarianism. These doctrines are from Christianity out of Greco-Roman culture and not of Hebrew heritage of scriptures.

The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from the Father (John 15:26) and does not speak on His own authority (John 16:13). He is not the Father. He is the Messiah. You deny Him.

John 12:49
For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandmentwhat to say and what to speak.

John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

The Father does not proceed forth from Himself, and the Father speaks on His own authority. Your god is told what to say by someone else.

Isa 48:16
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD [the Father], and his Spirit [the Messiah], hath sent me.

Ps 104:30
When you [the Father] send forth your Spirit [the Messiah], they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

Ez 37:14
I [the Father] will put my Spirit [the Messiah] in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

The Messiah is a life-giving Spirit (1 Cor 15:45).

The Father and the Holy Spirit (the Messiah) = Two distinct persons.

Deal with it.
 
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