Son of Man and Ancient of Days. = Trinity

Thread title: "Son of Man and Ancient of Days. = Trinity"

Trying to use Dan. 7:13,14 to talk about the Trinity is the height of the Trinitarian delusion!!!

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed."
 
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The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from the Father (John 15:26) and does not speak on His own authority (John 16:13). He is not the Father. He is the Messiah. You deny Him.
If The Father is Spirit, He can send His Spirit. Thats what scriptures teach but you deny. It's because you have built a stronghold in your mind that The Father is a Person sending His Spirit. This is erroneous thinking. The Holy Spirit is not distinct from The Father.

Another proof:

2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Another translation:

ܐ ܕܝܢ ܗܘܝܘ ܪܘܚܐ ܘܐܬܪ ܕܪܘܚܗ ܕܡܪܝܐ ܚܐܪܘܬܐ ܗܝ
17 Now, MarYa {The Lord-YHWH}, He is The Rukha {The Spirit}, and where The Rukheh d'MarYa {The Spirit of The Lord-YHWH} is, there is freedom!

Yahuah was The Father of Israel in covenant relationship. He is Spirit and He can send His Spirit.

You are confused between The LORD and The Spirit of The LORD.

Yes, Yahusha Messiah as Yahuah is The Spirit and He can send His Spirit.

If you don't understand this basic thing, you can't understand the NT


John 12:49
For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandmentwhat to say and what to speak.
He is The Messiah, The Anointed One. You forget! He is not The Holy Spirit in flesh.
John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

The Father does not proceed forth from Himself, and the Father speaks on His own authority. Your god is told what to say by someone else.

Yes, if you understand the true Doctrine, Yahusha Messiah is The Monogenes Son. Unique One that no other can be. He is directly conceived of The Holy Spirit making Him The Son of God being equal WITH God but didn't hold on to this reputation and being in form of Servant He subjected Himself to The Father. This He said He was sent by The Father having first proceeded forth from The Father.

Since, His resurrection it's His Spirit revealing His mind to His people. We have the mind of Messiah
Isa 48:16
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD [the Father], and his Spirit [the Messiah], hath sent me.
No need to make multi-persons in God. It's Yahuah as The Spirit and it's by His Spirit He was brought forth as The Son of God.

You can't make one scripture war against another. This scripture is the proof text used by Trinitarians . This is false understanding. No multiple Persons in God.
Ps 104:30
When you [the Father] send forth your Spirit [the Messiah], they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.
This is your false commentary of Hebrew scripture. Total ignorance!

The Son of God wasn't there at the time of creation but in the Spirit of Prophecy. You are misusing scriptures to your own destruction.


Ez 37:14
I [the Father] will put my Spirit [the Messiah] in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

Then you don't understand what's to be The Messiah. Your above misunderstanding can be dislodged by:

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the broken hearted, note to proclaim release to the captives, recovering of sight to the blind, to deliver those who are crushed,

The above is the statement from Yahusha's own mouth. If He is Holy Spirit as The Messiah, how Holy Spirit can anoint Himself.

You don't understand the scriptures.


The Messiah is a life-giving Spirit (1 Cor 15:45).

The Father and the Holy Spirit (the Messiah) = Two distinct persons.

Deal with it.
You have turned a deaf ear to many Scriptures which shows instead of repentance you are trying to find fault in me.

The Last ADAM became life giving Spirit:

1John 1:
2 (and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);

3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us. Yes, and our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son, Yeshua the Messiah.

The eternal life which was With The Father came to us in the Person of The. Son.

Nothing you say is harmonious with all scriptures.
 
If The Father is Spirit, He can send His Spirit. Thats what scriptures teach but you deny.

I do not deny that the Father is spirit, or sends His Spirit. I deny that the Father is the Spirit or sends Himself.

The Holy Spirit is not distinct from The Father.

Yes, He is. He speaks not from Himself, but whatever He hears He speaks. Thus, He is not the Father.

2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Yep, Messiah is the Spirit. Not the Father.


He is The Messiah, The Anointed One. You forget! He is not The Holy Spirit in flesh.

The Messiah is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).

The Son of God wasn't there at the time of creation

"The Son is before all things" Col 1:17.

The Last ADAM became life giving Spirit:

Messiah is a life-giving Spirit? Wow, He must be the Holy Spirit!
 
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I do not deny that the Father is spirit, or sends His Spirit. I deny that the Father is the Spirit or sends Himself.
So according to you The Father and Holy Spirit are two distinct Persons? It's nonsense!

If Father is Spirit then He can't be a Person/Individual. Thats your foundational error.

Moreover, John 4:24 says God is Spirit. So how many gods in your doctrine are spirits? Father is Spirit, Messiah is Spirit and Holy Spirit is Spirit - that's 3 Spirits according to you.

Get this in your head that if God is Spirit, He can send His Spirit and since He is not a Person/Individual it cannot be possible to send whole of Himself because He fills everything. But it doesn't mean The Spirit sent is not Him. God is simply not a Person or an Individual.

This can be easily proved :

2Cor 3:17 Now יהוה is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of יהוה is, there is freedom.

The Lord in Greek refers to Yahuah as The Spirit and it's a flash back to Yahusha Messiah being Yahuah in Spirit. It's Yahuah Who is Spirit as The Father of covenant Israel as His firstborn son. He could send His Spirit from Himself.

Listen to What 2Cor 3:17 says above! Yahuah is The Spirit and WHERE The Spirit of Yahuah is...
The Spirit of Yahuah is Yahuah Himself. The Spirit of The Father is Father Himself. Scriptures are written in Jigsaw puzzle and the ignorant can't grasp.

Yes, He is. He speaks not from Himself, but whatever He hears He speaks. Thus, He is not the Father.

Thats what you want to believe. Yahusha Messiah is speaking in perspective of His post resurrection where He promises His disciples to send The Spirit from the Father upon His disciples. This actually happened in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost.

You are mixing apples and oranges. This is not a Theology lesson The Messiah was giving to His disciples. He is simply elaborating on His suffering and glory and the promise of the outpouring of the Spirit Who teaches His disciples about Himself (Messiah).

He will not speak of Himself and whatever He hears He will speak. This is the proof that He is The true Spirit of God/Messiah because there are other false spirits in the world.

So His disciples are informed in advance the ministry of The Holy Spirit so that fall for false spirit accursing Yahusha Messiah:

1Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of Elohim says Yahusha is a curse, and no one is able to say that Yahusha is Yahuah except by the Holy Spirit.

Sorry, Yahusha Messiah wasn't giving Theology lessons to His disciples.

You think Binity all the time and interpret scriptures according to Binitarianism.
Yep, Messiah is the Spirit. Not the The Father
Messiah was flesh and not Spirit. Spirit Body is still a Body. You got this wrong.

You want to believe The Father is a Person and Messiah is His Spirit. Nothing of that is true. Only deluded mind.



The Messiah is the Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).



"The Son is before all things" Col 1:17.
Yes, He is before all things in Spirit from the beginning of creation. But actually brought forth as The Son in Bethlehem.

You are really ignorant of:

Rev 19:10 I fell down before his feet to worship him. He said to me, “Look! Don’t do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers who hold the testimony of Yeshua. Worship God, for the testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit of Prophecy.”
Messiah is a life-giving Spirit? Wow, He must be the Holy Spirit!
Life Giving/Eternal life which the first natural Adam couldn't.
 
So according to you The Father and Holy Spirit are two distinct Persons? It's nonsense!
The Father sends the Holy Spirit.. two distinct persons. What you believe is nonsense.

This can be easily proved :

2Cor 3:17 Now יהוה is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of יהוה is, there is freedom.

The Lord in Greek refers to Yahuah as The Spirit and

The Lord refers to Christ. Stop making stuff up.

Thats what you want to believe. Yahusha Messiah is speaking in perspective of His post resurrection where He promises His disciples to send The Spirit from the Father upon His disciples. This actually happened in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost.

"Christ is the Spirit" 2 Cor 3:17


Yes, He is before all things in Spirit from the beginning of creation. But actually brought forth as The Son in Bethlehem.

Nope.

Ps 104:30
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

Micah 5:2
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto Me He that is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”

Gen 1:2
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.


Life Giving/Eternal life which the first natural Adam couldn't.

"Christ is a Life-Giving Spirit" 1 Cor 15:45

"The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33:4

"I [the Father] will put my Spirit [Messiah] in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’” Ezekiel 37:14

Wow, Christ must be the Holy Spirit.

P.s.: is this the Father speaking????

Rev 3:5-6
I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Does the Father say "I will acknowledge that name before my Father"?????? :ROFLMAO: does the Father have a Father??
 
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The Father sends the Holy Spirit.. two distinct persons. What you believe is nonsense.
You don't know what you believe in. Utter nonsense. You are reading into scriptures things which are not there Yahusha Messiah wasn't giving His disciples Theology lessons. You are reading what's in your mind in to scriptures which doesn't exist.

First you will have to prove The Father is a Person or an Individual. The foundational error lies in making The Father a Person sending another Person. This is heathenism read into scriptures.

Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You are not able to reconcile all scriptures.

Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Yahuah/ God/Father/Messiah.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

It's because we are dealing with the same God in diversification and not divisions as multiple Persons.

Yahusha Messiah was explaining to His Disciples primary Jewish. He wasn't explaining to the so called modern Christianity which has made mess of doctrines from their Greco-Roman culture.

Israel including the Jews knew that there was only One God - not multiple Persons. They knew Yahuah was their Elohim. They knew of The Spirit of Yahuah as Yahuah Himself.

They never believed that Yahuah and His Spirit are two Persons. They knew Yahuah as their Father.

Thats why Isaiah prophesied about The Son being given to Israel. He makes it sure that He is The same Yahuah Who is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty El and The Everlasting Father.

The Son is diversification of Father Himself in Body:

John 14:Yeshua said to him, “Have I been with you all this time, and still you do not know me, Philipus? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father?’

Thats why Holy Spirit is The Spirit of The Father; Spirit of Messiah.

You are not able to harmonise all scriptures and are reading Binitarianism in scriptures whereas not everything you relate has anything to do with proper Theology. You never understand the Mission of Yahusha and in what way He is The Son, in what way He is The Messiah, in what way He is Yahuah.

Your false Theology has blinded you while reading scriptures.
The Lord refers to Christ. Stop making stuff up.


"Christ is the Spirit
Yes, Yahusha Messiah as being Yahuah is The Spirit.
The Lord in Greek refers to LORD/Yahuah in Hebrew.

1Cor 12:
ܐܢܐ ܠܟܘܢ ܕܠܝܬ ܐܢܫ ܕܒܪܘܚܐ ܕܐܠܗܐ ܡܡܠܠ ܘܐܡܪ ܕܚܪܡ ܗܘ ܝܫܘܥ ܘܐܦ ܠܐ ܐܢܫ ܡܫܟܚ ܠܡܐܡܪ ܕܡܪܝܐ ܗܘ ܝܫܘܥ ܐܠܐ ܐܢ ܒܪܘܚܐ ܕܩܘܕܫܐ
3 Because of this, I make known unto you that there is no man, who by The Rukha d'Alaha {The Spirit of God}, will speak and say that Eshu {Yeshua} is accursed, and also no man is able to say that MarYa {The Lord-YHWH} is Eshu {Yeshua}, except by The Rukha d’Qudsha {The Spirit of Holiness/The Holy Spirit}.

No man can confess Yahuah is Yahusha except by The Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Yahuah/Yahusha.

No distinct Persons involved.
Nope.

Ps 104:30
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.
Yes, God sent His Spirit and created. How 'HIS' is a distinct Person? Your ignorance!
Micah 5:2
“But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall come forth unto Me He that is to be ruler in Israel, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”
It's called diversification. The Messiah CAME FORTH UNTO YAHUAH.

You aren't careful with scriptures. How He can be from everlasting? Because He is identified in God Himself. He came forth from God as The Son in BETHLEHEM.

It's called Diversification of God as Spirit to God in Bodily form.

Gen 1:2
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

The Spirit of God and The Spirit of Messiah is One the same.


"Christ is a Life-Giving Spirit" 1 Cor 15:45

"The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33:4

"I [the Father] will put my Spirit [Messiah] in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’” Ezekiel 37:14

Wow, Christ must be the Holy Spirit.

P.s.: is this the Father speaking????

Rev 3:5-6
I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Does the Father say "I will acknowledge that name before my Father"?????? :ROFLMAO: does the Father have a Father??
You have quotes all above scriptures but they don't teach what you believe.

My God, My Father refers to being quoted by The Son as representing Israel as the firstborn son of God. My God, My Father, Your God, Your Father - quoted by The Son to show that all of promised children of Abraham. The Messiah took on the Seed of Abraham and as The Captain of their salvation transitioned them from The Old to New Creation.
 
My God, My Father refers to being quoted by The Son as representing Israel as the firstborn son of God. My God, My Father, Your God, Your Father - quoted by The Son to show that all of promised children of Abraham. The Messiah took on the Seed of Abraham and as The Captain of their salvation transitioned them from The Old to New Creation.

So the Spirit is the Son????

It's called diversification. The Messiah CAME FORTH UNTO YAHUAH.

You aren't careful with scriptures. How He can be from everlasting? Because He is identified in God Himself. He came forth from God as The Son in BETHLEHEM.

It's called Diversification of God as Spirit to God in Bodily form.

The Son is said to have gone forth from eternity. That contradicts what you believe, that there was only a Son at Bethlehem 2000 years ago.

Yes, God sent His Spirit and created. How 'HIS' is a distinct Person? Your ignorance!

HIS Spirit does not speak from HIMSELF, but speaks only what HE hears. HE is a distinct person from the One who sends Him.

Yes, Yahusha Messiah as being Yahuah is The Spirit.
The Lord in Greek refers to LORD/Yahuah in Hebrew.

The Lord refers to Messiah, not the Father.



First you will have to prove The Father is a Person
or an Individual. The foundational error lies in making The Father a Person sending another Person. This is heathenism read into scriptures.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
 
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It's called Diversification of God as Spirit to God in Bodily form.

The Holy Spirit (the Word) became flesh, but He's not the Father, because He said "I did not come of Myself". It's NOT the Father "diversifying Himself", the Father didn't become flesh. That's heresy.
 
So the Spirit is the Son????
It's Spirit of God and Messiah:

Rom 8: 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Messiah, this one is not His.

It's matter of One God and not multiple Persons.
The Son is said to have gone forth from eternity. That contradicts what you believe, that there was only a Son at Bethlehem 2000 years ago.
You deny scriptures that The Son given to us is from Bethlehem. You deny that He is Yahuah/God manifested in flesh. You deny He as Yahuah was called Everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6.
HIS Spirit does not speak from HIMSELF, but speaks only what HE hears. HE is a distinct person from the One who sends Him.
Again I have to repeat again and again! Yahusha wasn't giving His disciples Theology lessons. It's you who are reading into scriptures your Binitarianism.

We have to harmonise all scriptures and not make one scripture war against another.
The Lord refers to Messiah, not the Father.
Well, your Greek texts are influenced by the Septuagint (LXX) where it has replaced The Proper Name of the God of Israel as a title 'Lord'. But the ancient Aramaic NT manuscripts refer to Him as 'Yahuah'. The Hebrew renders 'Yahuah' instead of 'Lord' (Grk: Kurios).

However, the scripture in question doesn't contradict as Yahusha Messiah as Yahuah is Spirit.

FYI, The Father is the Son's own Spirit. The Son is His Tabernacle/Temple of His Body - John 2:19-21.
Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Thats KJV erroneous translation.

The proper translation is:

Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, (NHEB -AN)

Why KJV is wrong because it winks at God is invisible: God is Spirit.

Greek 'Hupostasis' doesn't mean Person.

You want to make 'Title' - Person because it agrees with your mindset of Binitarianism. There are no multiple Persons of God. It's heathenish unknown in Hebrew heritage of scriptures.
 
The Holy Spirit (the Word) became flesh, but He's not the Father, because He said "I did not come of Myself". It's NOT the Father "diversifying Himself", the Father didn't become flesh. That's heresy.
You fail to read scriptures carefully because you are blinded by false Binitarianism.

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Yeshua Messiah was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

Yahusha Messiah was the Child OF The Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:35 The angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore also the holy one who is born from you will be called the Son of God.

The Holy Spirit is God and The Child born OF The Holy Spirit is called The Son OF God.

God = The Father (title), Spirit.
 
It's Spirit of God and Messiah:

Rom 8: 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Messiah, this one is not His.

It's matter of One God and not multiple Persons.

Romans 8:9 is referring to Messiah, not the Father.

You deny scriptures that The Son given to us is from Bethlehem.

"The Son was there before anything was made" Col 1:17
Again I have to repeat again and again! Yahusha wasn't giving His disciples Theology lessons. It's you who are reading into scriptures your Binitarianism.
HIS Spirit does not speak from HIMSELF, but speaks only what HE hears. HE is a distinct person from the One who sends Him.

The Father is NOT the Spirit.

Well, your Greek texts are influenced by the Septuagint (LXX) where it has replaced The Proper Name of the God of Israel as a title 'Lord'. But the ancient Aramaic NT manuscripts refer to Him as 'Yahuah'. The Hebrew renders 'Yahuah' instead of 'Lord' (Grk: Kurios).

The Lord in 2 Cor 3:17 = Christ, NOT the Father.

Thats KJV erroneous translation.

The proper translation is:

Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, (NHEB -AN)

Why KJV is wrong because it winks at God is invisible: God is Spirit.

Greek 'Hupostasis' doesn't mean Person.

You want to make 'Title' - Person because it agrees with your mindset of Binitarianism. There are no multiple Persons of God. It's heathenish unknown in Hebrew heritage of scriptures.

His substance??? Why not "it's substance"??? I thought the Father wasn't a person...

You fail to read scriptures carefully because you are blinded by false Binitarianism.

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Yeshua Messiah was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

Yahusha Messiah was the Child OF The Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:35 The angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore also the holy one who is born from you will be called the Son of God.

The Holy Spirit is God and The Child born OF The Holy Spirit is called The Son OF God.

God = The Father (title), Spirit.

The Father ain't the the Holy Spirit. Next.
 
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Romans 8:9 is referring to Messiah, not the Father.
You are not the one to decide to impose your doctrine into scriptures. It's private interpretation on your behalf.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Spirit of God is God.

See what Rom 8 V3 says:

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Isn't it's refering to God as The Father? Whose Son is Yahusha Messiah? Of The Father!

So Spirit of God referring to the Spirit of The Father.

Now read carefully Rom 8:9

Spirit of Messiah is The Father.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Spirit of Messiah is The Father.

I have been telling you time and again that Yahusha Messiah's own Spirit is The Father while Yahusha Messiah is the Father's Tabernacle/Body

God is Spirit, Soul and Body in diversification in light of Adam being made in God's image. Carnal minded people don't understand this because they are not conformed to the image of the Son:

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

One can only understand true Theology if conformed to the image of the Son of God.

The Son of God has come and given His elect understanding:

1John 5: 20 We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding, that we know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Yeshua Meshikha. He is the true God and eternal life.

As Yahuah Messiah leads His people as The Captain of their salvation His people realise that He is The True God and eternal life. The mystery of The Father and The Son is revealed!.

Carnal or the unregenerate can't understand spiritual nature of scriptures. They have different schools of Theologies. They don't know that God/Father is Spirit and The Son/Messiah is His Tabernacle/Temple of His Body - John 2:19-21; 2Cor 5:19


"The Son was there before anything was made" Col 1:17

Col 1:17 doesn't say The Son was there physically. It's speaking about The Son in ptophetic scriptures since Gen 1:3. Everything was created in Him and for Him. He is the Firstborn over all creation. He existed as Yahuah in duality of powers - The First and The Last - Aleph and Tav.

You have adopted Greco-Roman culture of multi-personal God. God has always been One and Diversified Himself to fulfill all ptophetic scriptures which teach duality of powers within Yahuah. Not multiple Persons.

Eg: Isaiah 6 (Yahuah as High Priest); Psalm 110:1-5 (High Priest after the order of Melkitsedek); Psalm 2:6-7 (King of Zion), etc.

Physically there was no Son before Bethlehem.




HIS Spirit does not speak from HIMSELF, but speaks only what HE hears. HE is a distinct person from the One who sends Him.

The Father is NOT the Spirit.
Again you aren't able to rightly understand. This doesn't have any reference to Theology lesson but is speaking of the outpouring of The Holy Spirit on God's Assembly from the Day of Shavout/Pentecost as prophesied by prophet Joel. The Spirit is in context of the resurrection and glorification of Messiah.

The Holy Spirit will not speak from Himself - doesn't prove your point that He is not The Spirit of God/Father.

How do we know He is The Holy Spirit and not some other spirit? He will only speak about the glory of Yahusha Messiah. If spirit speaks on its own then He is not The Holy Spirit:

The same author John is writing:

1John 4: 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

The Spirit of God will only speak of Messiah and His glory. It's in this context He will not speak on His own


The Lord in 2 Cor 3:17 = Christ, NOT the Father.

Will you ever understand? Yahusha is Yahuah in Spirit. It's because you have assumed that The Father and The Son are two distinct Persons or multi-Personal God, you are applying into every scriptures.

It's Yahusha Who is Yahuah in Spirit. Scriptures don't contradict but your doctrine does. There was no physical Son before Bethlehem. If 2Cor 3:17 refers to Messiah then He is Yahuah in Spirit. In Spirit He is The Father.

Why do you sweep Isaiah 9:6 under the carpet? Isn't He the Everlasting Father?.

Get this in your head: The Son's own Spirit is The Father while He Himself is The Temple of His Body.

That's how it anyone sees The Son has seen The Father. Your doctrine has no harmony in Scriptures.

Get rid of the idolatry of Binitarianism. It's misrepresentation of God.

His substance??? Why not "it's substance"??? I thought the Father wasn't a person...
Substance of God is not physical or tangible But the Substance is expressed by His image. The Spirit is intangible but morphed into tangible Body of Yahusha Messiah. This invisible God is being expressed in human form.
The Father ain't the the Holy Spirit. Next.
You need to repent from your Binitarianism because you are blinded by your doctrine.

1Cor 12:
4 Now there are various kinds of gifts, but the same Rukha (Spirit)

5 There are various kinds of service, and the same Lord.

6 There are various kinds of workings, but the same God, who works all things in all.
 
You are not the one to decide to impose your doctrine into scriptures. It's private interpretation on your behalf.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The Spirit of God is God.

You are not the one to decide to impose your doctrine into scriptures. It's private interpretation on your behalf.

The Spirit of Christ is THE SON, NOT the Father.

See what Rom 8 V3 says:

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Isn't it's refering to God as The Father? Whose Son is Yahusha Messiah? Of The Father!

So Spirit of God referring to the Spirit of The Father.

Ps 104:30
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

See?? The Spirit is THE SON.

I have been telling you time and again that Yahusha Messiah's own Spirit is The Father while Yahusha Messiah is the Father's Tabernacle/Body

The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from the Father, and does not speak of Himself. He's not the Father.

God is Spirit, Soul and Body in diversification in light of Adam being made in God's image. Carnal minded people don't understand this because they are not conformed to the image of the Son:

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

One can only understand true Theology if conformed to the image of the Son of God.

Yep, conformed to the image of His Son, not the Father.

The Holy Spirit will not speak from Himself - doesn't prove your point that He is not The Spirit of God/Father.
I never said The Holy Spirit isn't the Spirit of God/the Father, I said He's not the Father. The Holy Spirit does not speak from Himself? Wow, He is not the Father.

Will you ever understand? Yahusha is Yahuah in Spirit. It's because you have assumed that The Father and The Son are two distinct Persons or multi-Personal God, you are applying into every scriptures.

It's Yahusha Who is Yahuah in Spirit. Scriptures don't contradict but your doctrine does. There was no physical Son before Bethlehem. If 2Cor 3:17 refers to Messiah then He is Yahuah in Spirit. In Spirit He is The Father.

2 Cor 3:17 refers to Messiah??? Wow, He must be a distinct person from the Father, who who sends the Spirit.

Why do you sweep Isaiah 9:6 under the carpet? Isn't He the Everlasting Father?.

Get this in your head: The Son's own Spirit is The Father while He Himself is The Temple of His Body.

Nope. The Son is the Spirit, not the Father. The Father sends the Son/the Spirit. He doesn't send Himself.

LOL.
Substance of God is not physical or tangible But the Substance is expressed by His image. The Spirit is intangible but morphed into tangible Body of Yahusha Messiah. This invisible God is being expressed in human form.

YOU said the proper translation is "his substance", but I thought the Father wasn't a person? Why doesn't it say "it's substance"?????
 
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You need to repent from your Binitarianism because you are blinded by your doctrine.

1Cor 12:
4 Now there are various kinds of gifts, but the same Rukha (Spirit)

5 There are various kinds of service, and the same Lord.

6 There are various kinds of workings, but the same God, who works all things in all.

Yep, Messiah is the Lord who is the Spirit. Not the Father.
 
You are not the one to decide to impose your doctrine into scriptures. It's private interpretation on your behalf.

The Spirit of Christ is THE SON, NOT the Father.

Spirit of Christ is The Son? You are joking! Christ is The Son of God. The Son of God is the Christ/Messiah. You don't know the scriptures.

The Spirit of God/Father is The Spirit of Messiah, The Son.

You are not reading Rom 8:3

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh;

Who is God there? It's The Father of The Son! Any child from kindergarten would tell you this.

Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Messiah, he is not his.

Who is The Spirit of God above? It's God The Father's in the context of V3. Then Who is the Spirit of Messiah, The Son of God/Father? It's the same Father's Spirit that Anointed Messiah/Christ.

Christ/Messiah means The Anointed One. Don't you understand simple English?

If The Son of God/Messiah is God's Bodily form then His own Spirit is The Father! No two Persons involved there.

God/Father is Spirit and The Son is His Body/Soul. No two Persons are involved. No Binitarianism.

Why does then the NT distinguishes between The Father as God and The Son as His Servant or subjected to Him? This is the most important part of the truth that has left Christendom in confusion and has resulted in various 'isms' of which Binitarianism, Trinitarianism and Unitarianism are part of. All these are false Theologies mainly because of Replacement Theology which teaches Church/Christianity has reduced Israel. This is the foundational error. God is concerned only with Israel - 12 tribes of dispersion (James 1:1; 1Pet 1:1). Christianity has no base in Scriptures.

Now coming back to the distinction between God The Father and His Son. Why was The Son subject to The Father? It's not because The Son was a created being like Unitarianism or Jehovah witnesses teach. It's not because there was a distinction between two Persons of God as Binitarianism and Trinitarianism teaches. It's because of what is taught in Phil 2:5-7 and other scriptures:

Phil 2:
5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Messiah Yeshua,

The humility was in the MIND of Yahusha Messiah despite being in God's tangible form. God is invisible Spirit Who doesn't have any form in His existence. No one has seen God at anytime.

6 who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

The existence of Yahusha Messiah in the form of God as The Monogenes Son in tangible Body was since Bethlehem. Phil 2:5-7 must be read in one go because it's speaking of all the present tense. His Bodily form is equal WITH God (Spirit). He is the counterpart of God as Spirit to mankind especially to Abraham's promised children (Israel).

The scriptures reveal that His Body was Spirit transcripted. IOW, What God as invisible Spirit is His counterpart in Bodily form is. Thats how The Son is Monogenes that no other can be. He is the only possible means God can be known. His humility is stumbling block for many in Israel.

7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.

Where did He empty Himself? It's in His Mind (context of v5) by opting to be a Servant in likeness of men. From this point onwards He humbled Himself to be death of the cross.

He all did this in love for His people whom He came to represent and stone and redeem them from the bondage to the Torah of sin and death. He became the Captain of their salvation.

We must also understand that though His Body wasn't from the dust of the earth, it was in likeness of it in mortality. He had earthy likeness but was in reality heavenly.

The distinction we see is not between the Persons of God but rather between God and Israel as the firstborn son whom The Son of God came to represent.

The Firstborn issue may not be significant to Christendom of replacement Theology BUT is very very important in God's salvation plan outlined by the prophetic clock over Israel. Yahusha Messiah came to fulfill all ptophetic scriptures of OT as The FIRSTBORN on behalf of Israel.

 
Ps 104:30
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

See?? The Spirit is THE SON.

Nope! It's speaking about Yahuah sending His Spirit. It's not speaking about The Son of God wasn't there physically before Bethlehem. You are trying to torture Hebrew scriptures with your false Binitarianism.

Yahuah sends His own Spirit because He is Spirit.
The Holy Spirit proceeds forth from the Father, and does not speak of Himself. He's not the Father.
Holy Spirit is not a distinct Person from God Who said be Holy for I AM holy.

In Hebrew the counterpart word for English 'holy' is 'Qodesh' actually means 'SETAPARTNESS'. He is God's SETAPART Spirit in His function. He is not distinct from God or The Father.

English semantics sometimes causes stumbling blocks in minds already trained through false tradition.




Yep, conformed to the image of His Son, not the Father.
Well you are not! The Father is God as Spirit and He gave us His Son in tangible Body. Seeing and acknowledging His The Monogenes The Son is as seeing The Father. Confirming to the image of The Son is doing the will of The Father. The Father, Sin are not Names but titles - The Name is Yahuah Who became our salvation - Yahusha.
I never said The Holy Spirit isn't the Spirit of God/the Father, I said He's not the Father. The Holy Spirit does not speak from Himself? Wow, He is not the Father.
The Spirit of the Father is Him . He is SETAPART Spirit in function. Your false multiple gods is not what scriptures don't teach.
2 Cor 3:17 refers to Messiah??? Wow, He must be a distinct person from the Father, who who sends the Spirit.
Nope! The Father is not a Person to be distinct from The Son as a Person. You make a mess of scriptures which are spiritual in nature.

The Father and The Son are not Names but titles.
Nope. The Son is the Spirit, not the Father. The Father sends the Son/the Spirit. He doesn't send Himself.
Nope! The Son will be permanently in Spirit Body. However there is not going to be a Son when He will be subject to The Father and God will be all in all

You don't know the scriptures. The Son is a temporal title till the end of this age. Your Binitarianism will disappear:

1Cor 15:
27 For, “He put a all things under his feet.” But when he says, “all things” are put under, it is evident that the one who put all things under is the exception.

28 When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.
He is The Son until all prophesies will be fulfilled:

Psalm 110:1 יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

The last enemy is death.

There is no need of this title 'The Son'

24 Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

Thats why He is called Everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6.

LOL.


YOU said the proper translation is "his substance", but I thought the Father wasn't a person? Why doesn't it say "it's substance"?????
See you are using your unregenerate mind to read scriptures. Substance is a correct translation and not Person because God as invisible Spirit is not a Person.

You love your doctrine more than God.
 
Spirit of Christ is The Son? You are joking! Christ is The Son of God. The Son of God is the Christ/Messiah. You don't know the scriptures.

The Spirit of God/Father is The Spirit of Messiah, The Son.
?



You are not reading Rom 8:3

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh;

Who is God there? It's The Father of The Son! Any child from kindergarten would tell you this.

Yep, the Father sends the Son/the Spirit. The Father is not the Son/the Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Messiah, he is not his.

Who is The Spirit of God above? It's God The Father's in the context of V3. Then Who is the Spirit of Messiah, The Son of God/Father? It's the same Father's Spirit that Anointed Messiah/Christ.

The Spirit of God is Messiah (2 Cor 3:17), not the Father.

?

Christ/Messiah means The Anointed One. Don't you understand simple English?

If The Son of God/Messiah is God's Bodily form then His own Spirit is The Father! No two Persons involved there.

Nope. The Spirit does not speak of Himself. He isn't the Father.

God/Father is Spirit and The Son is His Body/Soul. No two Persons are involved. No Binitarianism.

Wrong.

Now coming back to the distinction between God The Father and His Son. Why was The Son subject to The Father? It's not because The Son was a created being like Unitarianism or Jehovah witnesses teach. It's not because there was a distinction between two Persons of God as Binitarianism and Trinitarianism teaches. It's because of what is taught in Phil 2:5-7 and other scriptures:

Phil 2:
5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Messiah Yeshua,

The humility was in the MIND of Yahusha Messiah despite being in God's tangible form. God is invisible Spirit Who doesn't have any form in His existence. No one has seen God at anytime.

6 who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

The existence of Yahusha Messiah in the form of God as The Monogenes Son in tangible Body was since Bethlehem. Phil 2:5-7 must be read in one go because it's speaking of all the present tense. His Bodily form is equal WITH God (Spirit). He is the counterpart of God as Spirit to mankind especially to Abraham's promised children (Israel).

The scriptures reveal that His Body was Spirit transcripted. IOW, What God as invisible Spirit is His counterpart in Bodily form is. Thats how The Son is Monogenes that no other can be. He is the only possible means God can be known. His humility is stumbling block for many in Israel.

7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.

Where did He empty Himself? It's in His Mind (context of v5) by opting to be a Servant in likeness of men. From this point onwards He humbled Himself to be death of the cross.

He all did this in love for His people whom He came to represent and stone and redeem them from the bondage to the Torah of sin and death. He became the Captain of their salvation.

We must also understand that though His Body wasn't from the dust of the earth, it was in likeness of it in mortality. He had earthy likeness but was in reality heavenly.

The distinction we see is not between the Persons of God but rather between God and Israel as the firstborn son whom The Son of God came to represent.

The Firstborn issue may not be significant to Christendom of replacement Theology BUT is very very important in God's salvation plan outlined by the prophetic clock over Israel. Yahusha Messiah came to fulfill all ptophetic scriptures of OT as The FIRSTBORN on behalf of Israel.

Blah blah blah..

Nope! It's speaking about Yahuah sending His Spirit. It's not speaking about The Son of God wasn't there physically before Bethlehem. You are trying to torture Hebrew scriptures with your false Binitarianism.

Wrong again.

Col 1:17
The Son was there before anything was made.

Yahuah sends His own Spirit because He is Spirit.

Holy Spirit is not a distinct Person from God Who said be Holy for I AM holy.

False. The Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself, and is sent by the Father, not Himself, like the Son. He's not the Father.

In Hebrew the counterpart word for English 'holy' is 'Qodesh' actually means 'SETAPARTNESS'. He is God's SETAPART Spirit in His function. He is not distinct from God or The Father.

English semantics sometimes causes stumbling blocks in minds already trained through false tradition.

The Spirit is sent by the Father and DOES NOT SPEAK FROM HIMSELF. He is DISTINCT from the Father. Deal with it.

Well you are not! The Father is God as Spirit and He gave us His Son in tangible Body. Seeing and acknowledging His The Monogenes The Son is as seeing The Father. Confirming to the image of The Son is doing the will of The Father. The Father, Sin are not Names but titles - The Name is Yahuah Who became our salvation - Yahusha.

The Spirit of the Father is Him . He is SETAPART Spirit in function. Your false multiple gods is not what scriptures don't teach

Blah blah blah..

Nope! The Father is not a Person to be distinct from The Son as a Person. You make a mess of scriptures which are spiritual in nature.

Why is the Father called a He if He's not a Person. ?

Nope! The Son will be permanently in Spirit Body. However there is not going to be a Son when He will be subject to The Father and God will be all in all

:unsure:
 
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You don't know the scriptures. The Son is a temporal title till the end of this age. Your Binitarianism will disappear:

1Cor 15:
27 For, “He put a all things under his feet.” But when he says, “all things” are put under, it is evident that the one who put all things under is the exception.

28 When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.
He is The Son until all prophesies will be fulfilled:

Psalm 110:1 יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

The last enemy is death.

There is no need of this title 'The Son'

24 Then the end comes, when he will deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death.

Thats why He is called Everlasting Father in Isaiah 9:6.


See you are using your unregenerate mind to read scriptures. Substance is a correct translation and not Person because God as invisible Spirit is not a Person.

You love your doctrine more than God.

The Son will subject Himself to the Father? Wow, it sounds like they are two distinct persons. How could Jesus subject Himself.. to Himself??
 
Spirit of Christ is The Son? You are joking! Christ is The Son of God. The Son of God is the Christ/Messiah. You don't know the scriptures.

Christ simply means to be anointed of God. That is what it means for Christ be in you. Jesus was Christ because he was anointed of God and that hap[pend in that man in Matt 3:16 for he didnt know Gods Spirit nor His heaven until God came and opend it all to him just as He does in us all who will let God manifest in us as He did in Jesus, Adam in Gen 3:22, Abraham, Moses, 120.

If God is not come to you and renewing your mind, anointed your mind of His as He did in Jesus, then you are not of Christ at all, you are of some belief system instead.

Read Matt 3:16 and see when Jesus became anointed of Gods asme disposition. And when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him as well. 1 John 3. Read it.
 
The Son will subject Himself to the Father? Wow, it sounds like they are two distinct persons. How could Jesus subject Himself.. to Himself??
It sounds to the carnal minded but you don't understand that He is sitting on the throne of His father David. All Rulership is submitted back to the Father because He is The Everlasting Father according to Isaiah 9:6.
 
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