Spices applied after Jesus' death? Makes zero sense.

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
It's amusing to me how you think this observation is a score. With Body and Soul and Spirit, one makes the decision to which the others bow or you have dysfunction.
It's incredible that you've admitted your god is subservient to the body, flesh, and has to bow. Oh well...
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
No, the law and the example shows you the debt remains. And Jesus fell short. Too bad.
Die in debt. Try to pay your debt.

I can tell you NO ONE want's you coming back to write a check. The executor of your estate will take care of the debt. You will not.

And you will be judged on a FAR different standard, one that you have denied up to this point in your life.
No. He didn't know, as he acknowledges only the Father knows all in Matthew 6. He fell short.
Your own misunderstanding. You're confuting a non-sequitur with what Jesus always knew. God desires mercy not sacrifice. Jesus knew that...and knew the efficacy of His own actions.
Zero evidence for it.
Irrefutable evidence for it, for any honest investigator...it's only zero for those who have no temple, king or prophet, and have to start from scratch with pragmatic invention, rejecting the evidence of history. Daniel didn't even start from scratch...And the Jewish world was rife with prophets...not folks who had to rely on others who relied on others for understanding.
I haven't seen any.
Good. We're using the same sources.
Supposed.
Demonstrably historic.
A session at night wouldn't have a full council and not on a holiday.
Bogus argument. Jesus' challenge was exceptional, and had been disturbing since his entrance into the city the previous week. The plot had been set in motion throughout the week...No one would have missed the trial. No one.


No proof of divinity. He's bowing shortly. He wasn't a judge.
Plenty of proof...The Word is God...One with the Father.

He held zero authority. He didn't sit on Moses seat.
Son of David. Son of Adam. Priest after the order of Melchizedek. All the authority. Moses bows to Him, as He is before Moses before Abraham.

False. See above.
I saw. You're dead wrong.

The authority to kill?
The authority to govern comes from God. Hence the authority to carry out the law.

He wanted to die. Both natures did.
You're repeating the lie. I get tired of refuting your claim...
Not in the context in Zech 12.
Clearly in that context. False claim.
Your knee will bow and your tongue confess.
Then he isn't the true God.
There is no other...yours is an invention...only one piece of a rational being.
Because you have 3. Not me.
We have all three...the Will and the Word and the Breath...Elohim echad.

Lower case gods when referring to your trinity.
Insulting, sure, but as false now as ever...The three of you will not get this because your flesh is blinded, as Isaiah foresaw.

Rotfl... you came up with the 3 parts.
I did not invent the Tenach. I only understand it better than you allow yourself to, being blind. "Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." That is certainly true. The pharisee Nicodemus got it. You cannot....yet.

You said tzelem is really physical. So, which part of your god is physical? The Word? In what way?
I've answered as many ways as I can. I'm not big on redundancy. Just go over this thread, and you'll see the different ways I tried to explain our Elohim in terms that you might possibly understand. You DO NOT WANT to understand this. You want to maintain the god of your invention in a realm of non-existent fantasy without form or likeness. You have to, if you want to continue to deny history.

Post in thread 'Thief on the cross - forgiven how?' https://forums.carm.org/threads/thief-on-the-cross-forgiven-how.4749/post-709185

You're being very disingenuous.
Um...someone is. That's certain. I'm doing my best. You want Adam before the fall to look like you, and be like you...with all your attributes, and you're stuck on the notion that "physical" is stuck in three dimensional space/time, and that somehow I've reduced God to something that looks a little like you.

He has likeness. He has image...He is God transcendent, above, outside and within space and time. He is the eternal "I Can", the only answer to your "he can't".
Blah blah
In contrast to your brilliance here, "The Spirit gives life, and the Will designs in all wisdom. Body and Spirit and Soul. That's how it works. When the Word was made Flesh, He worked to the extent of His power to bring salvation to light. His power is boundless, and His wisdom beyond finding out." I realize this is the best you're willing to do in response to the best I can do to make it clear.

Rotfl... you just admitted to 3 gods.
You just closed your blind eyes again...no need to go on. You've already been refuted.

Y'll are not three people...

You keep running away. Typical.
I just said, "OK...but, then, I don't have the problems you have been instructed to maintain. I just have to read, and know that what I read is true and can be acceptable as revealed. If it is revealed it belongs to me. Only what's hidden belongs to God."

I'm not running away. I continue to charge...I'm running to you with as much light as I can bring to your sadly blinded eyes.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Die in debt. Try to pay your debt.

I can tell you NO ONE want's you coming back to write a check. The executor of your estate will take care of the debt. You will not.
You didn't bother looking at example of the widow in Elisha's story where the debtors came for her kids, after her husband died. Again, your proven wrong and Jesus fell short on the perfect payment.

And you will be judged on a FAR different standard, one that you have denied up to this point in your life.
Your own misunderstanding. You're confuting a non-sequitur with what Jesus always knew. God desires mercy not sacrifice. Jesus knew that...and knew the efficacy of His own actions.
He fell short of the requirements of the law. Just acknowledge this fact.

Irrefutable evidence for it, for any honest investigator...it's only zero for those who have no temple, king or prophet, and have to start from scratch with pragmatic invention, rejecting the evidence of history. Daniel didn't even start from scratch...And the Jewish world was rife with prophets...not folks who had to rely on others who relied on others for understanding.
Daniel had no temple, as well as his generation. They relied on God's mercy, as we do today.

Bogus argument. Jesus' challenge was exceptional, and had been disturbing since his entrance into the city the previous week. The plot had been set in motion throughout the week...No one would have missed the trial. No one.
Bogus acquittal. Non-judges are out of their element.

Plenty of proof...The Word is God...One with the Father.
Rotfl... the word has knees and tongue and bows to the true God.

Son of David. Son of Adam. Priest after the order of Melchizedek. All the authority. Moses bows to Him, as He is before Moses before Abraham.
Rotfl... Jesus bows to God. He has knees...
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
You didn't bother looking at example of the widow in Elisha's story where the debtors came for her kids, after her husband died. Again, your proven wrong and Jesus fell short on the perfect payment.
Of course I did...it was an excellent point. And you missed my response: "The debtor did not pay the debt." Being dead, NO ONE looked to him to pay. His widow had to do that...and he will still appear before the judge for mercy. His judgment is not dependent on his wife's sin or omission.
He fell short of the requirements of the law. Just acknowledge this fact.
Why would I not recognize how poorly you judge? I'm grateful you don't stand in the place of God. Jesus is the advocate not you, and that's cause for rejoicing on any level.

Daniel had no temple, as well as his generation. They relied on God's mercy, as we do today.
And they still had prophets, Daniel being only one of many, priests and kings, as far as Zerubabbel the son of David was concerned. You have none, and rely on your invention to determine what seems right in your own eyes. Excuses didn't work well in the days of the Judges...Ask the tribe of Benjamin.

Bogus acquittal. Non-judges are out of their element.
Huh? You lost the train of the argument...Your bogus claim was that no one would come to a night trial. We weren't talking about acquittal. You really need my help reading these posts. Everyone came to the night trial, because it pertained to Jesus, an exceptionally daunting challenge, curiosity notwithstanding.

Rotfl... the word has knees and tongue and bows to the true God.
The Word creates, molds and forms. You cannot see this.

Rotfl... Jesus bows to God. He has knees...
Your knee will bow and your tongue confess.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Of course I did...it was an excellent point. And you missed my response: "The debtor did not pay the debt."
So, the debt remains. That's why the debtors came for the kids. Jesus fell short in his payments.

Being dead, NO ONE looked to him to pay. His widow had to do that...and he will still appear before the judge for mercy. His judgment is not dependent on his wife's sin or omission.
That's the law. Jesus fell short on his payments.

Why would I not recognize how poorly you judge? I'm grateful you don't stand in the place of God. Jesus is the advocate not you, and that's cause for rejoicing on any level.
He didn't sit on the seat of Moses. Sorry, he can't acquit.

And they still had prophets, Daniel being only one of many, priests and kings, as far as Zerubabbel the son of David was concerned.
Yes, and Hosea established that prayers would suffice in such times. ;)

You have none, and rely on your invention to determine what seems right in your own eyes. Excuses didn't work well in the days of the Judges...Ask the tribe of Benjamin.
See above. Study some more.

Huh? You lost the train of the argument...Your bogus claim was that no one would come to a night trial.
No, my words were that a night trial wouldn't be lawful, and that Pharisees like Gamaliel wouldn't attend.

We weren't talking about acquittal. You really need my help reading these posts. Everyone came to the night trial, because it pertained to Jesus, an exceptionally daunting challenge, curiosity notwithstanding.
False. See above.

The Word creates, molds and forms. You cannot see this.
Your word was molded, created.

Your knee will bow and your tongue confess.
As will Jesus. You can't escape he has knees and a tongue.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
It's incredible that you've admitted your god is subservient to the body, flesh, and has to bow. Oh well...
It's bizarre how you have to twist things to nonsense before you respond...but your invention requires this. The Word was spoken, and the Spirit gave life.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
It's bizarre how you have to twist things to nonsense before you respond...but your invention requires this. The Word was spoken, and the Spirit gave life.
The word was molded. When the body falls, the other 2 parts follow. All knees will bow. You have zero defense for this. Rotfl...

Knee pads would be a good investment 👌.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
So, the debt remains.
Only for the living. The dead cannot pay.

That's why the debtors came for the kids. Jesus fell short in his payments.
Wait, what? The debtors came for the debtors?

The moneylenders did not go to the dead. They went to the widow. The dead had nothing to pay. He was dead.
That's the law. Jesus fell short on his payments.
That's only the best the invention can do...your new replacement for Torah does not have the meat of the Tenakh...and you certainly do not sit in the seat of Moses to judge the One Moses said was to come, even though your invention seeks to do just that!

He didn't sit on the seat of Moses. Sorry, he can't acquit.
What I wrote was clear. Read it until you understand it.

Yes, and Hosea established that prayers would suffice in such times. ;)
According to your invention...but prayers obviously do not work when it comes to debt, according to that same invention.

See above. Study some more.
Reread what I wrote...understanding and sight can be restored. Jesus healed the blind throughout the days of His earthly ministry. Still does, now that He's risen. He heals through a believing Church.

No, my words were that a night trial wouldn't be lawful, and that Pharisees like Gamaliel wouldn't attend.
And my words you keep missing were that NOTHING in the trial was legal, and the full council participated. NO ONE, having seen the perceived "mayhem" of the previous Sunday would have stayed away. The arrest was plotted and paid for throughout the week...

You need to read up and study some more.

False. See above.
I did. Look again. "Everyone came to the night trial, because it pertained to Jesus, an exceptionally daunting challenge, curiosity notwithstanding." Your argument from silence is not argued from inspired silence. It's pure invention.

Your word was molded, created.
His Word molded and created. You need to study more.

As will Jesus. You can't escape he has knees and a tongue.

Daniel 7:9As I continued to watch, thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took His seat. His clothing was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze.

Who is the "Ancient of Days?" What color is His hair? Or do you want to argue that He does not have hair? Or that your invention is more inspired than Daniel, who obviously knew more than you about a lot of things?
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Only for the living. The dead cannot pay.
Doesn't mean he didnt leave a debt unpaid. That's why the family pays it off. Jesus didn't, he fell short.

Wait, what? The debtors came for the debtors?
Collectors came for the debt unpaid from the debtors.

The moneylenders did not go to the dead. They went to the widow. The dead had nothing to pay. He was dead.
The debt remained otherwise the collectors wouldn't have come.

That's only the best the invention can do...your new replacement for Torah does not have the meat of the Tenakh...and you certainly do not sit in the seat of Moses to judge the One Moses said was to come, even though your invention seeks to do just that!
Jesus didn't sit on the seat of Moses either.

What I wrote was clear. Read it until you understand it.
Understood. It falls short.

According to your invention...but prayers obviously do not work when it comes to debt, according to that same invention.
It does when it comes to sin.

Reread what I wrote...understanding and sight can be restored. Jesus healed the blind throughout the days of His earthly ministry. Still does, now that He's risen. He heals through a believing Church.
Miracles don't prove a thing on it's own. Why don't you see Jesus has knees and a tongue?

And my words you keep missing were that NOTHING in the trial was legal, and the full council participated.
I never said I disagreed.

NO ONE, having seen the perceived "mayhem" of the previous Sunday would have stayed away. The arrest was plotted and paid for throughout the week...
So much for being Messiah.

You need to read up and study some more.
Done.

I did. Look again. "Everyone came to the night trial, because it pertained to Jesus, an exceptionally daunting challenge, curiosity notwithstanding." Your argument from silence is not argued from inspired silence. It's pure invention.
Nope. That wouldn't happen.

His Word molded and created. You need to study more.
Tanakh proves the Father did. Jesus was created, from the womb.

Daniel 7:9As I continued to watch, thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took His seat. His clothing was white as snow, and the hair of His head was like pure wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze.

Who is the "Ancient of Days?" What color is His hair? Or do you want to argue that He does not have hair? Or that your invention is more inspired than Daniel, who obviously knew more than you about a lot of things?
Why are there two different bodies for your persons of the godhead?

You've asked this question on another thread. Keep it there.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
Doesn't mean he didnt leave a debt unpaid. That's why the family pays it off. Jesus didn't, he fell short.
Your argument is the only shortfall...Jesus died...and His sacrifice is all-sufficient. The evidence is in the historic resurrection you are required to deny. There was no debt shortfall, and you yourself cite Hosea.

Collectors came for the debt unpaid from the debtors.
:LOL: And they got it...or they confiscated everything that was left behind.

The debt remained otherwise the collectors wouldn't have come.
The debt was paid and the collectors went away, satisfied, never to return.

Jesus didn't sit on the seat of Moses either.
The Son of Man sits on the Throne...with the Father.

Understood. It falls short.
See above. Your required misunderstanding is the only shortfall...You extend Hosea's charity to all but your own Messiah...

It does when it comes to sin.
So, by Jewish invention, debt is the unpardonable sin? That sounds awfully anti Jewish to me. It has no ring of truth, but of artifice.

Miracles don't prove a thing on it's own. Why don't you see Jesus has knees and a tongue?
Why don't you see that the Ancient of Days has hair?

I never said I disagreed.
Why do you argue? You add your presumption that the Pharisees...even those who were sympathetic would have stayed away from the most momentous and most contrived trial of their career.

Add this to the mix: How many of them would remember the twelve-year-old precocious young man whom they had met merely twenty years prior?

So much for being Messiah.
Huh? Because He was despised and rejected, as foretold in Isaiah? They fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy...and brought about the end of Jerusalem.

Yeah...maybe a tad more would help you.

Nope. That wouldn't happen.
Funny, when it obviously did happen, that you are forced now to deny your own history. The plot went on all week. Judas was bribed Tuesday or Wednesday...agreement was made with him...The temple soldiers had to be gathered and given instruction. All were at least tacitly complicit...

Tanakh proves the Father did. Jesus was created, from the womb.
False claim...Doesn't become true by repetition. The Word and the Will are One...Elohim Echad. You cannot make our Elohim more than one without blaspheming.

Why are there two different bodies for your persons of the godhead?
Why were there three with Abraham? Why Did God choose to show Daniel what he saw. How did you become so blind that you are forced to deny what Daniel saw? Why does the Ancient of Days have hair?

You've asked this question on another thread. Keep it there.
You're questions transcend threads...I'll let you post without restriction.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Your argument is the only shortfall...Jesus died...and His sacrifice is all-sufficient.
No, he came up short and wasn't perfect in all of the commandments. Sorry.

The evidence is in the historic resurrection you are required to deny.
Yep, never happened nor witnessed by the masses. Too bad.

There was no debt shortfall, and you yourself cite Hosea.
Yes, if you're using Hosea like I am, then we don't need Jesus anyway. Thank you!

:LOL: And they got it...or they confiscated everything that was left behind.
That was one example. There's plenty people in debt, or thieves, and Jesus didn't pay the debts. Sorry!

The debt was paid and the collectors went away, satisfied, never to return.
See above. It's great you acknowledged the debt, though. You're making progress.

The Son of Man sits on the Throne...with the Father.
There's only one throne. But you have a problem with two bodies and three gods. Where's Harpo?

See above. Your required misunderstanding is the only shortfall...You extend Hosea's charity to all but your own Messiah...
See above.

So, by Jewish invention, debt is the unpardonable sin? That sounds awfully anti Jewish to me. It has no ring of truth, but of artifice.
I never said anything about an unpardonable sin.

Why don't you see that the Ancient of Days has hair?
I see allegories, visions, riddles. Why don't you see two bodies contrary to the one you said the trinity shared?

Why do you argue? You add your presumption that the Pharisees...even those who were sympathetic would have stayed away from the most momentous and most contrived trial of their career.
Because it was unlawful to carry a session during the holidays or at night.

Add this to the mix: How many of them would remember the twelve-year-old precocious young man whom they had met merely twenty years prior?
Who cares?


Huh? Because He was despised and rejected, as foretold in Isaiah? They fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy...and brought about the end of Jerusalem.
Actually, Israel was rejected as foretold.

Yeah...maybe a tad more would help you.

Funny, when it obviously did happen, that you are forced now to deny your own history. The plot went on all week. Judas was bribed Tuesday or Wednesday...agreement was made with him...The temple soldiers had to be gathered and given instruction. All were at least tacitly complicit...
Funny, you forget the Sadducees were running this gig.

False claim...Doesn't become true by repetition. The Word and the Will are One...Elohim Echad.
You said your word proceeded from the Father. That wouldn't be one with the Father anymore.

You cannot make our Elohim more than one without blaspheming.
You have with your interpretation of Daniel.

Why were there three with Abraham?
Because there were 3 men, angels giving God's prophetic message. If you've checked the Hebrew, God appeared singularly, not as 3.

Why Did God choose to show Daniel what he saw. How did you become so blind that you are forced to deny what Daniel saw? Why does the Ancient of Days have hair?
Why were there two bodies instead of one?

You're questions transcend threads...I'll let you post without restriction.
I rather stick to one thread. Be that as it may, you've yet to answer a lot on the others.
 

tbeachhead

Well-known member
No, he came up short and wasn't perfect in all of the commandments. Sorry.
No need to apologize. He rose from the dead. You missed how wrong this makes your claim.

Yep, never happened nor witnessed by the masses. Too bad.
Claims don't erase facts...sorry. It happened. And the witnesses died rather than recant what they had seen...To deny that this event was unprecedented and never repeated is...well...denial. And the sole basis left of your invention.

Yes, if you're using Hosea like I am, then we don't need Jesus anyway. Thank you!
You need Jesus. Hosea foresaw the need, and the results. Unbelief never yields fruit...Ask Esau.

That was one example. There's plenty people in debt, or thieves, and Jesus didn't pay the debts. Sorry!
No need to apologize. They all died...and faced judgement far above the paltry one you're suggesting here. The debt that prevents salvation is not monetary...It's actually calling Elohim a liar...That's a choice some folks make, because His righteousness doesn't seem right in their eyes. Caiaphas and Annas and the council that voted to break the Law to condemn the innocent Messiah all made that choice. Not good for them.
See above. It's great you acknowledged the debt, though. You're making progress.
Well...now progress to the fact that the dead cannot pay a monetary debt, and it's absurd to believe that God holds them to it.

There's only one throne. But you have a problem with two bodies and three gods. Where's Harpo?
Look again...time to learn to read Daniel 7.

And there is only one...As you are one...not three...and you will always have this problem until your eyes are opened. Keep repeating the same absurdities...sometimes insight comes like lightning...Because your argument is so limited, you might soon see how vapid and insipid it actually is.

See above.
I actually did. That's where "vapid and insipid" actually came from. You should have repeated it again. You might have seen this as well.

I never said anything about an unpardonable sin.
But your god doesn't forgive debt...the dead carry the debt for you...

I see allegories, visions, riddles. Why don't you see two bodies contrary to the one you said the trinity shared?
Isn't it weird you say "I see allegories, visions and riddles"...and then ask this question? The spiritual dimension you deny cannot be understood in denial...The Two Daniel saw, He saw...and described...in terms of rule and dominion. You have to deal with the ultimate reality described as drawn from the Spiritual realm that you deny.

Because it was unlawful to carry a session during the holidays or at night.
Yep...Priests and council broke the Law at the most momentous moment in Israel's history of disobedience and denial that God loved you through. Glad you can see that. There was nothing legal in the crucifixion of your Messiah...but it fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy.

Who cares?
Maybe folks who have taught for forty years, and remember their first students. Not very many people...I care, and that's all that matters for me. It makes the story real...

Actually, Israel was rejected as foretold.
Yeah...well...after they rejected...That's pretty clear. Mutual love and mercy will see Israel restored as well. That, too, is written by the Prophet Paul, teacher of righteousness.

Funny, you forget the Sadducees were running this gig.
No...I've never forgotten the two who held the priesthood...and the rest who ran the courts. All in council. That's exactly why I said, "The plot went on all week. Judas was bribed Tuesday or Wednesday...agreement was made with him...The temple soldiers had to be gathered and given instruction. All were at least tacitly complicit..."

You said your word proceeded from the Father. That wouldn't be one with the Father anymore.
Keep working on it...The Father's Word is living and active, and sharper than a sword...He is never independent of the Father, and does as the Word implies...Two? Never: A singular Expression of a single Will.


You have with your interpretation of Daniel.
Nope. You've shown that you don't read very well...

Sorry...
Because there were 3 men, angels giving God's prophetic message. If you've checked the Hebrew, God appeared singularly, not as 3.
That only seems right in your eyes.

It's not what the Tenakh clearly shows...from the first chapter.
Why were there two bodies instead of one?
I think you have to see the Trinity before you can understand that Elohim Echad...That's the best I can answer, because He is still at work.
I rather stick to one thread. Be that as it may, you've yet to answer a lot on the others.
There's a lot of interesting spill on both threads. I've throughly enjoyed your insights and OH's...Thank you.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No need to apologize. He rose from the dead. You missed how wrong this makes your claim.

Claims don't erase facts...sorry. It happened. And the witnesses died rather than recant what they had seen...To deny that this event was unprecedented and never repeated is...well...denial. And the sole basis left of your invention.

You need Jesus. Hosea foresaw the need, and the results. Unbelief never yields fruit...Ask Esau.

No need to apologize. They all died...and faced judgement far above the paltry one you're suggesting here. The debt that prevents salvation is not monetary...It's actually calling Elohim a liar...That's a choice some folks make, because His righteousness doesn't seem right in their eyes. Caiaphas and Annas and the council that voted to break the Law to condemn the innocent Messiah all made that choice. Not good for them.
Well...now progress to the fact that the dead cannot pay a monetary debt, and it's absurd to believe that God holds them to it.

Look again...time to learn to read Daniel 7.

And there is only one...As you are one...not three...and you will always have this problem until your eyes are opened. Keep repeating the same absurdities...sometimes insight comes like lightning...Because your argument is so limited, you might soon see how vapid and insipid it actually is.

I actually did. That's where "vapid and insipid" actually came from. You should have repeated it again. You might have seen this as well.

But your god doesn't forgive debt...the dead carry the debt for you...

Isn't it weird you say "I see allegories, visions and riddles"...and then ask this question? The spiritual dimension you deny cannot be understood in denial...The Two Daniel saw, He saw...and described...in terms of rule and dominion. You have to deal with the ultimate reality described as drawn from the Spiritual realm that you deny.

Yep...Priests and council broke the Law at the most momentous moment in Israel's history of disobedience and denial that God loved you through. Glad you can see that. There was nothing legal in the crucifixion of your Messiah...but it fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy.

Maybe folks who have taught for forty years, and remember their first students. Not very many people...I care, and that's all that matters for me. It makes the story real...

Yeah...well...after they rejected...That's pretty clear. Mutual love and mercy will see Israel restored as well. That, too, is written by the Prophet Paul, teacher of righteousness.

No...I've never forgotten the two who held the priesthood...and the rest who ran the courts. All in council. That's exactly why I said, "The plot went on all week. Judas was bribed Tuesday or Wednesday...agreement was made with him...The temple soldiers had to be gathered and given instruction. All were at least tacitly complicit..."

Keep working on it...The Father's Word is living and active, and sharper than a sword...He is never independent of the Father, and does as the Word implies...Two? Never: A singular Expression of a single Will.


Nope. You've shown that you don't read very well...

That only seems right in your eyes.

It's not what the Tenakh clearly shows...from the first chapter.

I think you have to see the Trinity before you can understand that Elohim Echad...That's the best I can answer, because He is still at work.
There's a lot of interesting spill on both threads. I've throughly enjoyed your insights and OH's...Thank you.
I'm done here.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Umm...cute rejoinder, but useless. I'm not making Elohim more than echad. I'm merely reading the Tenakh as it is written, without denying the pesky inconveniences that you are forced to deny.
If you say that "Echad is one God BUT THREE PERSONS" you are essentially contradicting Echad.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
If you say that "Echad is one God BUT THREE PERSONS" you are essentially contradicting Echad.
He believes in a unity of parts since he's admitted his gods had/have a physical image used to create mankind.

He can't, won't explain where they got this physical image of the Mormons.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
He believes in a unity of parts since he's admitted his gods had/have a physical image used to create mankind.

He can't, won't explain where they got this physical image of the Mormons.
Yes!

I didn't realize he was a Mormon. I just figured he was influenced by Mormon teaching.
 
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