D
ding
Guest
The words of scripture are that it is his body and blood. Scripture doesn't say that it is not.
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and words of scripture say He is a door and a vine...
D
ding
Guest
Your argument doesn't prove that it is not his body and blood.
1Thess521
Well-known member
yet you concede no one died in the Upper Room
please resolve how a new covenant went into effect, the penalty of sins paid for, and propitiation was made without a death?
Scripture states
Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect ONLY at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures
Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
1Thess521
Well-known member
you would accept a meaningLESS Crucifixion of Christ rather than accept the Catholic Church is in error
D
ding
Guest
Your argument doesn't mean that the Catholic church is in error. Like I said before you can't separate the Eucharist and the cross.
1Thess521
Well-known member
sure it does
YOU CLAIM the new covenant went into effect, the penalty of sins paid for, and propitiation was made IN THE UPPER ROOM
YOU CONCEDE there was no death in the Upper Room
YOU MAKE NO ATTEMPT to resolve Scripture that states
Hebrews 9:
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, (diathéké) so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. 16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17For a will (diathéké) takes effect ONLY at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."
1 Corinthians 15:3
Christ died for our sins, according to Scriptures
Colossians 1:21-22
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
stand up for what you believe: address these verses
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Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Yup, read the Biblical account of the last supper WITHOUT "CATHOLIC GLASSES" on, and what Jesus said will become clear.
yes, you can. no one died at the last supper. someone did die at the cross.
if you really believe what you posted then why is the 'eucharist' so much more important to catholics than the cross is? do you believe you are saved by the 'eucharist' ? does the wafer come in a loaf?
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
As a FEAR tactic to keep their victims in line. If you're not a Catholic Cannibal, you're HELL BOUND!!!
nan
Well-known member
Simple. Because you're told what to believe.
No one in their right mind, using the good sense God gave them, would accept as true that Jesus gave out pieces of His body and a chalice filled with His blood at the Last Supper. Jesus Himself said the cup contained wine.
And where do Jesus' soul and divinity come in? Are the words or the notion even mentioned in the Last Supper narrative? Your Church has painted themselves into a corner with this lie. And RC's don't bother asking if they even notice it at all.
JP II said 'stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it.' Looks like he underestimated his Church.
D
ding
Guest
So the Ortodox and the Lutheran Churches are wrong too? The ecf's were wrong also?
The belief in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist dates back to the early church so we have almost 2000 years of Christians beliefing in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. The real discent wasn't until the Reformation in the 16th century. Sorry but you are still striking out.
no, not Christians. and not even 2000 yrs of catholics.
1Thess521
Well-known member
here ya go..
Early Church Evidence Refutes Real Presence
Early Church Evidence Refutes Real Presence
By Brian Culliton Introduction The real presence doctrine is probably the most important doctrine to Catholics today because it is the nucleus of the Catholic mass. The doctrine insists that the eu…
onefold.wordpress.com
well documented; in context; with references, and objections answered
and of course: to be ignored
Interesting link.here ya go..
Early Church Evidence Refutes Real Presence
Early Church Evidence Refutes Real Presence
By Brian Culliton Introduction The real presence doctrine is probably the most important doctrine to Catholics today because it is the nucleus of the Catholic mass. The doctrine insists that the eu…
well documented; in context; with references, and objections answered
and of course: to be ignored
nan
Well-known member
If they believed in that nonsense ... yes!
nan
Well-known member
Christ-followers, born again children of the living God, do not, never have and never will believe Jesus' body, blood, soul and divinity are contained in a flat, ironed and imprinted wafer.
Speaking of that, why is it that your Church doesn't give you pieces of bread on Sunday? Isn't that what Jesus did? And, why is it that Jesus called the content of the cup 'fruit of the vine'? Isn't that wine?
If they got it wrong, they weren't believers. Maybe those you think are biblical scholars are catholics. As a believer I go with what Jesus and the apostles/disciples taught.
That is why one needs to be careful of what man says.
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