Whatsisface
Well-known member
Then perhaps you can explain it? It doesn't relate to the OP because it seems to be saying its a false assumption that the Gospels are false. If that's what he means, it's irrelevant to the OP.
Suppose the Resurrection was proven false, what would explain the Gospels?
- Thread starter Whatsisface
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"The OP question is absurd, because one can no more account for the Gospels if the resurrection did not take place than one could account for this digital conversation if electricity didn't exist."
I don't think that's true, but I think I understand it.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Ok thanks, I don't think it's true either, and I can't see how the poster thinks it true.
Christianity is all about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
If He was still in the grave, the Gospels would never have been written.
It's basic cause-and-effect.
No resurrection = no Gospels.
It's the old "If there was no electricity, we'd all be watching TV in the dark" joke.
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
No electricity - no post to explain.
No resurrection - no good news (gospel) to explain.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Right, thanks for explaining what you meant.
The OP is a hypothetical and in that light it doesn't matter what the truth of the situation is in order to give an answer. An answer is entirely possible that despite no resurrection there could still be the Gospels. The OP asks you to explore said possibilities.
One possibility is that stories of a resurrection could all too easily come about through a process of Chinese whispers where tales grew in the telling, set against the background of those times where the idea of resurrection was common. For example...
Sound familiar? This article goes on to say...
Found here.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
That's what I thought he might mean although I wasn't sure as it doesn't make too much sense, it being entirely possible for there to be the Gospels without a resurrection.
I have a feeling that the Osiris story flourished in a setting that wasn't hostile to it.
But the Gospels are not so.
The Gospels grew, despite all attempts to squelch them before they even got started.
Saul of Tarsus being second to none in leading the way to vanquish Christianity before it ever got off the ground.
And as I said before, it would have been too easy to pwn the Gospels.
Just go get Jesus' body and put it on public display.
In addition, the Gospels contain acts of history that could have easily been verified.
I was born in 1954.
It is now 2021, about to be 2022.
If someone wrote a book that said, in 1956, Eisenhower ordered the deaths of all children 2 years old and under, and tomorrow I wanted to put an end to that lie, I would start going around to every church in America with my birth certificate showing that didn't happen.
I'd be going around saying, "If Eisenhower ordered my death, what am I doing here?"
In fact, multiple thousands of those born in 1954 could be going around exposing that author's lie.
We wouldn't be calling them "the Gospels."
What would the "good news" be?
That some guy named Jesus was crucified for claiming he was the king of the Jews?
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
Really? Then do tell what the good news would be without the resurrection. "He was killed. The End" is NOT good news.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
What's the source of your information?
Here's my first hit googling for information on this....
… and …
Both found here.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Really? The good news would be there because of stories of resurrection, it just wouldn't be true.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Why not?
It would come from stories that were believed to be true.
Of course not. It would be from the Jesus who people thought was the son of God and who believed was resurrected.
The Bible, and a dash of common sense.
Whatsisface said:
Thank you for posting that.
It upholds what I said: Christianity grew.
wikipedia said:
"Empire-wide" being the key phrase.
Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Christianity could have easily been squelched before it ever got off the ground, had there been no resurrection.
They couldn't exhume the body?
What made Saul of Tarsus go from being a great persecutor of the Christians, into Christianity's greatest missionary?
The Holy Ghost? or Chinese whispers?
Whatsisface
Well-known member
You haven't looked into this very deeply then.
Yes, but for understandable reasons. No surprises there.
I forgot to add this, from the same source...
This would have been after the stories of the resurrection had taken a hold, and about the same time that the Gospel of Mark was written or was being written. The cat was out of the bag by then.
This is false, because the idea of the resurrection would be the same to people whether it was true or not.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
What's your point?
Whatsisface
Well-known member
I don't know. Possibly he began to think of it as true.