Suppose the Resurrection was proven false, what would explain the Gospels?

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Excellent comment. You actually have to pause and think a moment to appreciate how apropros it is as a reply to the thread title. Well done.
Then perhaps you can explain it? It doesn't relate to the OP because it seems to be saying its a false assumption that the Gospels are false. If that's what he means, it's irrelevant to the OP.
 

Komodo

Well-known member
Do you have a point? If so can you make it clearly?
"The OP question is absurd, because one can no more account for the Gospels if the resurrection did not take place than one could account for this digital conversation if electricity didn't exist."

I don't think that's true, but I think I understand it.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
"The OP question is absurd, because one can no more account for the Gospels if the resurrection did not take place than one could account for this digital conversation if electricity didn't exist."

I don't think that's true, but I think I understand it.
Ok thanks, I don't think it's true either, and I can't see how the poster thinks it true.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
I disagree. But perhaps you could explain?

Christianity is all about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If He was still in the grave, the Gospels would never have been written.

It's basic cause-and-effect.

No resurrection = no Gospels.

It's the old "If there was no electricity, we'd all be watching TV in the dark" joke.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
Christianity is all about the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

If He was still in the grave, the Gospels would never have been written.

It's basic cause-and-effect.

No resurrection = no Gospels.

It's the old "If there was no electricity, we'd all be watching TV in the dark" joke.
Right, thanks for explaining what you meant.

The OP is a hypothetical and in that light it doesn't matter what the truth of the situation is in order to give an answer. An answer is entirely possible that despite no resurrection there could still be the Gospels. The OP asks you to explore said possibilities.

One possibility is that stories of a resurrection could all too easily come about through a process of Chinese whispers where tales grew in the telling, set against the background of those times where the idea of resurrection was common. For example...

Ancient accounts tell of an important figure whose birth would be heralded by a star in the heavens, a god who would later judge the dead. He would be murdered in a betrayal by one close to him, his body hidden away — though not for long, as he would return in a miraculous resurrection to begin an eternal reign in heaven.

To his legions of followers, he (and his resurrection) came to symbolize the promise of eternal life.
Sound familiar? This article goes on to say...

The figure, Osiris, was the supreme god in ancient Egypt, only one of many pagan gods worshipped thousands of years before the birth of Jesus. Indeed, though Jesus is currently the best-known example of a resurrected figure, he is far from the only one.

Found here.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
One possibility is that stories of a resurrection could all too easily come about through a process of Chinese whispers where tales grew in the telling, set against the background of those times where the idea of resurrection was common.

I have a feeling that the Osiris story flourished in a setting that wasn't hostile to it.

But the Gospels are not so.

The Gospels grew, despite all attempts to squelch them before they even got started.

Saul of Tarsus being second to none in leading the way to vanquish Christianity before it ever got off the ground.

And as I said before, it would have been too easy to pwn the Gospels.

Just go get Jesus' body and put it on public display.

In addition, the Gospels contain acts of history that could have easily been verified.

I was born in 1954.

It is now 2021, about to be 2022.

If someone wrote a book that said, in 1956, Eisenhower ordered the deaths of all children 2 years old and under, and tomorrow I wanted to put an end to that lie, I would start going around to every church in America with my birth certificate showing that didn't happen.

I'd be going around saying, "If Eisenhower ordered my death, what am I doing here?"

In fact, multiple thousands of those born in 1954 could be going around exposing that author's lie.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
That's what I thought he might mean although I wasn't sure as it doesn't make too much sense, it being entirely possible for there to be the Gospels without a resurrection.

We wouldn't be calling them "the Gospels."

What would the "good news" be?

That some guy named Jesus was crucified for claiming he was the king of the Jews?
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
I have a feeling that the Osiris story flourished in a setting that wasn't hostile to it.

But the Gospels are not so.

The Gospels grew, despite all attempts to squelch them before they even got started.

What's the source of your information?

Here's my first hit googling for information on this....

Bart Ehrman attributes the rapid spread of Christianity to five factors: (1) the promise of salvation and eternal life for everyone was an attractive alternative to Roman religions; (2) stories of miracles and healings purportedly showed that the one Christian God was more powerful than the many Roman gods; (3) Christianity began as a grassroots movement providing hope of a better future in the next life for the lower classes; (4) Christianity took worshipers away from other religions since converts were expected to give up the worship of other gods, unusual in antiquity where worship of many gods was common; (5) in the Roman world, converting one person often meant converting the whole household—if the head of the household was converted, he decided the religion of his wife, children and slaves.

… and …

There was no empire-wide persecution of Christians until the reign of Decius in the third century
Both found here.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member

AV1611VET

Well-known member
What's the source of your information?

The Bible, and a dash of common sense.

Whatsisface said:
Here's my first hit googling for information on this....

Thank you for posting that.

It upholds what I said: Christianity grew.

wikipedia said:
There was no empire-wide persecution of Christians until the reign of Decius in the third century.

"Empire-wide" being the key phrase.

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Christianity could have easily been squelched before it ever got off the ground, had there been no resurrection.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
Why not?

It would come from stories that were believed to be true.

Of course not. It would be from the Jesus who people thought was the son of God and who believed was resurrected.

What made Saul of Tarsus go from being a great persecutor of the Christians, into Christianity's greatest missionary?

The Holy Ghost? or Chinese whispers?
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
The Bible, and a dash of common sense.
You haven't looked into this very deeply then.
Thank you for posting that.

It upholds what I said: Christianity grew.
Yes, but for understandable reasons. No surprises there.
"Empire-wide" being the key phrase.

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
I forgot to add this, from the same source...

The first persecution of Christians organized by the Roman government was under the emperor Nero in 64 AD
This would have been after the stories of the resurrection had taken a hold, and about the same time that the Gospel of Mark was written or was being written. The cat was out of the bag by then.
Christianity could have easily been squelched before it ever got off the ground, had there been no resurrection.
This is false, because the idea of the resurrection would be the same to people whether it was true or not.
 
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