Suppose the Resurrection was proven false, what would explain the Gospels?

Komodo

Well-known member
It is nice writing to you. Maybe being married to a believer in ghost apparitions makes you more openminded on that topic. 😇 👻
Or maybe my open-mindedness was what allowed me to marry into that family. :)

If we go by the etymology of Paranormal, we would say that it's "above, alongside, or contrary" to known "normal" science. If we go by the Oxford definition, then it's something "outside the scope of normal scientific understanding."

If something was in conflict with known science, then it would count as contrary. Perpetual motion machines would count because IIRC, there is a law in science about inertia that would dictate that the machines would have to wind down eventually. Some way would have to be found to overcome that law if one were to build such a machine.
Yes, the 2nd law of thermodynamics; the amount of energy available for work decreases over time. (I could look it up to get the exactly language, but I don't want to cheat.)

Astrology would be practically "alongside" known science, because there is not much of a known mechanism by which being born in a certain month would dictate your personality. Your first year of life, if you reach 1 year old in the hot summer, do you have a different personality than someone meeting their birthday in winter? You would be experiencing different weather patterns in a different pattern of your life. Anyway, if it's just weather related, then what about someone who lives near the equator and whose seasons don't change much? At least, if yearly recurring weather patterns are the cause of people's horoscope personalities, then there would be a "known mechanism" and explanation, but the phenomenon of horoscope astrology would still be hardly understood by Science.
I'd say the idea that the season of one's birth has some influence on the personality isn't intrinsically contrary to current knowledge, or even all that improbable, but the idea that it's the influence of the constellations themselves is. For one thing, the constellation "Taurus" is just a human fabrication, an arbitrary grouping of stars which doesn't even correspond to their actual location (let alone make up an actual "bull"), and they are much too far away to have any influence on us anyway; the number of photons falling on us from the stars is entirely negligible compared to those from your current computer screen. So the idea that the stars of Taurus cast a specific influence which is different from the stars of Ares seems entirely contrary to what is known about the stars.

By the way, I was once a typist/proofreader for a syndicate which distributed columns to newspaper, like advice columns and so on, and we handled an astrology column. The astrologer retired, and before a new one could be found they decided just to recycle some of the old columns. One of them was actually written during WWII when we were in an alliance with the Soviet Union, and said "You born today are humble, cheerful and generous. Today's birthday: Joseph Stalin." I told them they might want to pull that.
 

Komodo

Well-known member
OK, so one reason could be human hope and desires, or else problem solving.
Suppose that you have no good empirical evidence that we have a cancer cure, and no known mechanism that would cure cancer across the board, as opposed to treatments that might cure certain patients or certain cases of cancer. However, humans could want one nonetheless.
But a potion that would cure all diseases, and give us eternal youth, would be even more desirable; but even less credible.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
So historians should teach that Julius Ceasar probably did some things but no one can be sure?
So can we debate what the records claim or do we dismiss historical records as a unreliable waste of time?
No. We know from multiple sources about Caesar, but do we know everything about him precisely? Do we know the very words he spoke as is claimed for Jesus?
 

rakovsky

Well-known member
One of them was actually written during WWII when we were in an alliance with the Soviet Union, and said "You born today are humble, cheerful and generous. Today's birthday: Joseph Stalin." I told them they might want to pull that.
Technically, printing that would not be incorrect, like printing the birth dates for other famous people like Genghis Khan, Henry VIII, Julius Caesar, etc.
On a side note, one of Stalin's work places when he was young was in an astronomical observatory. There is some information about Stalin being interested in some topics comparable to astrology. Рe changed his birth date in documents, and historians have different theories as to why he did that. One of the theories is that he attached some kind of spiritual or paranormal significance to it. In his parish's records, his parents are recorded as having given birth to him on Dec. 18, 1878. Another place I read that he arranged certain famous "sister" skyscrapers in Moscow with stars on top so that the skyscrapers matched a certain astronomical-style pattern around the city.
 

Komodo

Well-known member
Technically, printing that would not be incorrect, like printing the birth dates for other famous people like Genghis Khan, Henry VIII, Julius Caesar, etc.
On a side note, one of Stalin's work places when he was young was in an astronomical observatory. There is some information about Stalin being interested in some topics comparable to astrology. Рe changed his birth date in documents, and historians have different theories as to why he did that. One of the theories is that he attached some kind of spiritual or paranormal significance to it. In his parish's records, his parents are recorded as having given birth to him on Dec. 18, 1878. Another place I read that he arranged certain famous "sister" skyscrapers in Moscow with stars on top so that the skyscrapers matched a certain astronomical-style pattern around the city.
I know that Goebbels was also very devoted to astrology. In 1945, when it was clear that the Nazis were doomed, he assured Hitler that the stars foretold a reversal; and when FDR died, he convinced Hitler that was the fated turnaround, a recurrence of the fortuitous death of one of Frederick the Great's enemies which turned the tide for him in the Seven Years War. (Germany surrendered a little more than two weeks later.)
 

Lucian

Active member
I know that Goebbels was also very devoted to astrology. In 1945, when it was clear that the Nazis were doomed, he assured Hitler that the stars foretold a reversal; and when FDR died, he convinced Hitler that was the fated turnaround, a recurrence of the fortuitous death of one of Frederick the Great's enemies which turned the tide for him in the Seven Years War. (Germany surrendered a little more than two weeks later.)
Where did you read this?
 
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