Surviving Jaredite Names in Mesoamerica

Mesenja

Active member
Kib Name of the sixth month in the Yucatec Maya calendar.

Shule Name of the sixteenth day of the 260-day calendar in Yucatec.

Akish Close parallel to the Quiche Maya Kaqix (Caquix) of the Popol Vuh. The name combines kaq "red" and qix "feather" and means the scarlet macaw parrot. The x is pronounced as sh in English in Mesoamerican words and names.

Com Tzotzil Maya for "log stool" or "armadillo"

Kish Two meanings for this word are available: (1) "kix" in Yucatec and Chol Maya,meaning "spine," "thorn," and maybe "stingray spine" and (2) "kix" in the Palenque hieroglyphs "feather"

Shiblon The Shib or Xib part of the name is very common in Yucatec Maya--for example,Chak-Xib-Chak,Ek-Xib-Chak,Sak-Xib-Chak, Kan-Xib-Chak,etc.

Hill Shim In Yucatec Maya and other Mayan languages — for example,an ear of corn or kernels of corn is ixim In the Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz,Mexico,one of the mountains is called Cintepec in the Aztec language. Cintepec means "corn hill." The Aztecs lived late in Mesoamerican history and were glossing earlier names with the equivalent in their own language. In Mayan languages,it would be ixim (as mentioned earlier,the x becomes sh in English).

Wilderness of Akish As noted above,Akish is very similar to the Kiche Maya name Kaqix or Caquix. This name refers to the macaw parrot. The Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz were glossed,by the Aztecs as Toztlan,which means the place of the macaw parrots. The Aztec place name glyph also depicts a macaw parrot for these mountains.

Land of Heth A land by the east sea mentioned early in the Jaredite account. The indirect hint for the location of this land centers on the meaning of the letter Heth in Hebrew. The letter Heth relates to the Big Dipper constellation and the number seven. The Popol Vuh account of Wukub Kaqix associates him with the Big Dipper,and his name means "seven macaw" Could this be the land of Heth to the Tuxtla Mountains region of southern Veracruz? Both the Big Dipper constellation and the macaw parrot are tied to Wukub Kaqix. Perhaps the land of Heth and the wilderness of Akish are adjacent to each other.
 
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The Prophet

Active member
Land of Heth A land by the east sea mentioned early in the Jaredite account. The indirect hint for the location of this land centers on the meaning of the letter Heth in Hebrew. The letter Heth relates to the Big Dipper constellation and the number seven. The Popol Vuh account of Wukub Kaqix associates him with the Big Dipper,and his name means "seven macaw" Could this be the land of Heth to the Tuxtla Mountains region of southern Veracruz? Both the Big Dipper constellation and the macaw parrot are tied to Wukub Kaqix. Perhaps the land of Heth and the wilderness of Akish are adjacent to each other.
Wasn't the Book of Mormon written in Reformed Egyptian, and not Hebrew? :)
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Yes. Plus there can be similar words in different languages, that have totally different meanings. Look at "amen" in Greek/Aramaic and "Amun" in Egyptian. Similar words but totally different meanings. I remember a rather fanatical Messianic Jew that used to be on CARM 15 or so years ago, and he refused to say "Amen" at the end of prayers because he thought it was invoking the Egyptian god Amun! And he insisted on spelling it "amien." Foolish.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Kib Name of the sixth month in the Yucatec Maya calendar.

So, this name could not be made up? But it is a shortened version of a camp in the OT: kib-roth-ha-ta'-a-va.
Shule Name of the sixteenth day of the 260-day calendar in Yucatec.

Schule is a Hebrew based name, also German, meaning "school."
Akish Close parallel to the Quiche Maya Kaqix (Caquix) of the Popol Vuh. The name combines kaq "red" and qix "feather" and means the scarlet macaw parrot. The x is pronounced as sh in English in Mesoamerican words and names.

This is the name of a King in the OT. Spelled "Achish" in the KJV.
Com Tzotzil Maya for "log stool" or "armadillo"

Nothing in the Bible with this name, but it is short and could have easily been made up--like curloms and cumoms.

Anyone could make up this name
Kish Two meanings for this word are available: (1) "kix" in Yucatec and Chol Maya,meaning "spine," "thorn," and maybe "stingray spine" and (2) "kix" in the Palenque hieroglyphs "feather"

Kish was King Saul's father.
Shiblon The Shib or Xib part of the name is very common in Yucatec Maya--for example,Chak-Xib-Chak,Ek-Xib-Chak,Sak-Xib-Chak, Kan-Xib-Chak,etc.

Still could have been made up, perhaps from "Shiloh."
Hill Shim In Yucatec Maya and other Mayan languages — for example,an ear of corn or kernels of corn is ixim In the Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz,Mexico,one of the mountains is called Cintepec in the Aztec language. Cintepec means "corn hill." The Aztecs lived late in Mesoamerican history and were glossing earlier names with the equivalent in their own language. In Mayan languages,it would be ixim (as mentioned earlier,the x becomes sh in English).

Derivative of "Shem", one of Noah's sons. Easy-peasy to change the "e" to an "i."
Wilderness of Akish As noted above,Akish is very similar to the Kiche Maya name Kaqix or Caquix. This name refers to the macaw parrot. The Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz were glossed,by the Aztecs as Toztlan,which means the place of the macaw parrots. The Aztec place name glyph also depicts a macaw parrot for these mountains.

See what I wrote for Akish, above.
Land of Heth A land by the east sea mentioned early in the Jaredite account. The indirect hint for the location of this land centers on the meaning of the letter Heth in Hebrew. The letter Heth relates to the Big Dipper constellation and the number seven. The Popol Vuh account of Wukub Kaqix associates him with the Big Dipper,and his name means "seven macaw" Could this be the land of Heth to the Tuxtla Mountains region of southern Veracruz? Both the Big Dipper constellation and the macaw parrot are tied to Wukub Kaqix. Perhaps the land of Heth and the wilderness of Akish are adjacent to each other.
In the Bible, Heth is the second son of Canaan, in the OT. Again, Smith could easily have copied this name.

So, zero proof that these words are surviving Jaredite names. Except in the minds of some Mormons.
 

Mesenja

Active member
Shule The Mesoamerican name Xul pronounced as "Shule" , is also preceded by the term "Kan" in another person's name from Palenque and may correspond with the Jaredite name Shule in the Book of Mormon.
 
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John t

Super Member
Kib Name of the sixth month in the Yucatec Maya calendar.

Shule Name of the sixteenth day of the 260-day calendar in Yucatec.

Akish Close parallel to the Quiche Maya Kaqix (Caquix) of the Popol Vuh. The name combines kaq "red" and qix "feather" and means the scarlet macaw parrot. The x is pronounced as sh in English in Mesoamerican words and names.

Com Tzotzil Maya for "log stool" or "armadillo"

Kish Two meanings for this word are available: (1) "kix" in Yucatec and Chol Maya,meaning "spine," "thorn," and maybe "stingray spine" and (2) "kix" in the Palenque hieroglyphs "feather"

Shiblon The Shib or Xib part of the name is very common in Yucatec Maya--for example,Chak-Xib-Chak,Ek-Xib-Chak,Sak-Xib-Chak, Kan-Xib-Chak,etc.

Hill Shim In Yucatec Maya and other Mayan languages — for example,an ear of corn or kernels of corn is ixim In the Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz,Mexico,one of the mountains is called Cintepec in the Aztec language. Cintepec means "corn hill." The Aztecs lived late in Mesoamerican history and were glossing earlier names with the equivalent in their own language. In Mayan languages,it would be ixim (as mentioned earlier,the x becomes sh in English).

Wilderness of Akish As noted above,Akish is very similar to the Kiche Maya name Kaqix or Caquix. This name refers to the macaw parrot. The Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz were glossed,by the Aztecs as Toztlan,which means the place of the macaw parrots. The Aztec place name glyph also depicts a macaw parrot for these mountains.

Land of Heth A land by the east sea mentioned early in the Jaredite account. The indirect hint for the location of this land centers on the meaning of the letter Heth in Hebrew. The letter Heth relates to the Big Dipper constellation and the number seven. The Popol Vuh account of Wukub Kaqix associates him with the Big Dipper,and his name means "seven macaw" Could this be the land of Heth to the Tuxtla Mountains region of southern Veracruz? Both the Big Dipper constellation and the macaw parrot are tied to Wukub Kaqix. Perhaps the land of Heth and the wilderness of Akish are adjacent to each other.

Even if all this were true, there is NOTHING to verify all you posted (It also lacks peer review) this is pure speculation, having no basis in fact.
Furthermore, this "information" comes from a religion that tells its adherents to believe in cureloms, Gadianton Robbers, secret combinations, and the magical disappearance of a gold-leafed book written in non-existent "Reformed Egyptian"

The chasms of missing logic and common sense are far greater than the length and width of the Grand Canyon. Yet we are supposed to believe it when an acolyte of Joseph Smith takes some unverified speculation from groups like FairMormon, etc. and claims it to be true.

Pardon me while I loudly guffaw at the inherent absurdity of such an opening post in this thread.
 
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Mod10

Moderator
Staff member
Kib Name of the sixth month in the Yucatec Maya calendar.

Shule Name of the sixteenth day of the 260-day calendar in Yucatec.

Akish Close parallel to the Quiche Maya Kaqix (Caquix) of the Popol Vuh. The name combines kaq "red" and qix "feather" and means the scarlet macaw parrot. The x is pronounced as sh in English in Mesoamerican words and names.

Com Tzotzil Maya for "log stool" or "armadillo"

Kish Two meanings for this word are available: (1) "kix" in Yucatec and Chol Maya,meaning "spine," "thorn," and maybe "stingray spine" and (2) "kix" in the Palenque hieroglyphs "feather"

Shiblon The Shib or Xib part of the name is very common in Yucatec Maya--for example,Chak-Xib-Chak,Ek-Xib-Chak,Sak-Xib-Chak, Kan-Xib-Chak,etc.

Hill Shim In Yucatec Maya and other Mayan languages — for example,an ear of corn or kernels of corn is ixim In the Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz,Mexico,one of the mountains is called Cintepec in the Aztec language. Cintepec means "corn hill." The Aztecs lived late in Mesoamerican history and were glossing earlier names with the equivalent in their own language. In Mayan languages,it would be ixim (as mentioned earlier,the x becomes sh in English).

Wilderness of Akish As noted above,Akish is very similar to the Kiche Maya name Kaqix or Caquix. This name refers to the macaw parrot. The Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz were glossed,by the Aztecs as Toztlan,which means the place of the macaw parrots. The Aztec place name glyph also depicts a macaw parrot for these mountains.

Land of Heth A land by the east sea mentioned early in the Jaredite account. The indirect hint for the location of this land centers on the meaning of the letter Heth in Hebrew. The letter Heth relates to the Big Dipper constellation and the number seven. The Popol Vuh account of Wukub Kaqix associates him with the Big Dipper,and his name means "seven macaw" Could this be the land of Heth to the Tuxtla Mountains region of southern Veracruz? Both the Big Dipper constellation and the macaw parrot are tied to Wukub Kaqix. Perhaps the land of Heth and the wilderness of Akish are adjacent to each other.
Mesenja, did you write this all yourself, or did you copy and paste if from another source? If the latter, you need to cite it. You do not need to link to it, but at least cite your source.
 

Mesenja

Active member
Mesenja, did you write this all yourself, or did you copy and paste if from another source? If the latter, you need to cite it. You do not need to link to it, but at least cite your source.

Surviving Jaredite Names in Mesoamerica
By Bruce Warren · May 26, 2005

Editor’s Note: The Ancient America Foundation (AAF) is pleased to present AAF Notes: a series of research articles by scholars of Book of Mormon culture and history and reviewed by AAF editors. Visit our Web site EDITED BY MODERATOR This section of Bruce Warren’s research identifies surviving Jaredite names in Mesoamerica. (Blaine M. Yorgason, Bruce W. Warren, and Harold Brown. New Evidences of Christ in Ancient America, Book of Mormon Research Foundation. Provo: 1999, Chaper 2, “Jaredite Connections with Mesoamerica,” pp. 17-19).

Jaredite-Olmec Connections

If the Jaredites were indeed the Olmec culture, as we believe they were, then our knowledge of the Olmec culture should also link the two cultures. To show that such is the case, we will use six personal names and three place names from the book of Ether to make a Jaredite/land northward connection with the cultural area of Mesoamerica. The six personal names are Kib, Shule, Akish, Com, Kish, and Shiblon. The three place names are the hill Shim, the wilderness of Akish, and the land of Heth. The following table gives more detail on these nine names.

Jaredite Names Used in Mesoamerica Today

Personal Name

Origin

Kib

Name of the sixth month in the Yucatec Maya calendar.

Shule

Name of the sixteenth day of the 260-day calendar in Yucatec.

Akish

Close parallel to the Quiche Maya Kaqix (Caquix) of the Popol Vuh. The name combines kaq “red” and qix “feather” and means the scarlet macaw parrot. (Tedlock 1985: 237). (The x is pronounced as sh in English in Mesoamerican words and names.)

Com

Tzotzil Maya for “log stool” or “armadillo”(Laughlin 1975: 104).

Kish

Two meanings for this word are available: (1) “kix” in Yucatec and Chol Maya, meaning “spine,” “thorn,” and maybe “stingray spine” (Stross 1998: e-mail) and (2) “kix” in the Palenque hieroglyphs “feather” (Kelley 1965, 112, 114, Figures 23,34,49-53). The glyph at Palenque on the Tablet of the Cross is associated with the calendar name Nine Wind of Quetzalcoatl. Kelley’s Figure 34. From Teotihuacan, Mexico, shows Quetzalcoatl with beard and feathers and emphasizes the serpent fangs. It could be that both the meanings are relevant, and that the feathers and fangs are both important.

Shiblon

The Shib or Xib part of the name is very common inYucatec Maya–for example, Chak-Xib-Chak, Ek-Xib-Chak, Sak-Xib-Chak, Kan-Xib-Chak, etc.


Place Name

Origin

Hill Shim

In Yucatec Maya and other Mayan languages – for example, an ear of corn or kernels of corn is ixim (Laughlin 1975: 419) In the Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz, Mexico, one of the mountains is called Cintepec in the Aztec language. Cintepec means “corn hill.” The Aztecs lived late in Mesoamerican history and were glossing earlier names with the equivalent in their own language. In Mayan languages, it would be ixim (as mentioned earlier, the x becomes sh in English).

Wilderness of Akish

As noted above, Akish is very similar to the Kiche Maya name Kaqix or Caquix. This name refers to the macaw parrot. The Tuxtla Mountains of southern Veracruz were glossed, by the Aztecs as Toztlan, which means the place of the macaw parrots. The Aztec place name glyph also depicts a macaw parrot for these mountains (Covarrubias 1947: 26, n. 4).

Land of Heth

A land by the east sea mentioned early in the Jaredite account. The indirect hint for the location of this land centers on the meaning of the letter Heth in Hebrew. The letter Heth relates to the Big Dipper constellation and the number seven (Moran and Kelley 1969:49,81). The Popol Vuh account of Wukub Kaqix associates him with the Big Dipper, and his name means “seven macaw” Could this be the land of Heth to the Tuxtla Mountains region of southern Veracruz? Both the Big Dipper constellation and the macaw parrot are tied to Wukub Kaqix. Perhaps the land of Heth and the wilderness of Akish are adjacent to each other.

References

Covarrubias, Miguel. Mexico South: The Isthmus of Tehuantepec. New York: Alfred A Knopf, 1947.

Kelley, David H. “American Parallels,” In The Alphabet and the Ancient Calendar Signs. By Moran and Kelley, Part II. Palo Alto Daily Press, 1969.

Laughlin, Robert M. The Great Tzotzil Dictionary of San Lorenzo Zinacatan. Smithsonian Contributions to Anthropology No. 19. Washington, D.C.: Smithsonian Institution Press,1975.

Stross, Brian. E-mail correspondence with Bruce Warren, June 1998.

Tedlock, Dennis, trans. Popol Vuh:The Definitive Edition of the Maya Book of the Dawn of Life and the Glories of Gods and Kings. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1985.

Editor’s Note:The personal name Kish gives us an especially intriguing connection between the Book of Mormon Jaredites and the Olmec culture. Bruce Warren’s discussion of this subject with figures can be read on AAF’s web site:Research Note No. 106: “KISH” A Personal Name.

Other prior notes that draw from this interesting chapter include the following:

AAF Note # 40:Jaredites and Serpents;
AAF Note # 46:Ixtilxochitl’s Record of Jaredite/Olmec/Tulteca Beginnngs;
AAF Note # 111:Ancient American Writings;
AAF Note # 117:Jaredite Connections with Mesoamerica.


2005 Meridian Magazine. All Rights Reserved
 
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RiJoRi

Well-known member
Interesting. It does, however, remind me of Anglo-Israelism, which did similar verbal gymnastics. E. G., "Saxon" is from "Isaac's son"; "Danube" and "Denmark" reference the tribe of "Dan", etc.

--Rich
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Yes. Plus there can be similar words in different languages, that have totally different meanings. Look at "amen" in Greek/Aramaic and "Amun" in Egyptian. Similar words but totally different meanings. I remember a rather fanatical Messianic Jew that used to be on CARM 15 or so years ago, and he refused to say "Amen" at the end of prayers because he thought it was invoking the Egyptian god Amun! And he insisted on spelling it "amien." Foolish.
It doesn't matter what people think a word means, as we can see from our arguments with our critics. As far as the words listed here, At the time Joseph Smith was translating, these words had no meaning at all. Our critics used to get all riled over the word Alma, claiming it was a woman's name.

As I said before in the over broad generalized question where you all just can't see evidence if it slapped you in the face, all we need is time and eventually science will catch up.

Here again, we have evidence of the Book of Mormon's authenticity. And if we go with @imJRR comment, we can now say this is "proof" the Book of Mormon is everything it purports to be. :rolleyes: Because "evidence = proof" :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Anyone could make up this name
And anyone could have made up the names in the OT. Like Moses. It's the name of a person that doesn't exist in history. But as long as Joseph Smith is making up names, it seems quite convenient that names he "made up" happen to match names commonly used by the people, now extinct that he knew, supposedly, nothing about...

One has to wonder how many times a person will accidentally get something right before people realize that it wasn't an accident. For our critics, it doesn't matter. For them, the world is chaos and everything is an accident including Adam and Eve eating the apple. Their God has to catch up with us and fix the mistakes we made in his plan. That doesn't sound like an all-knowing God.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Interesting. It does, however, remind me of Anglo-Israelism, which did similar verbal gymnastics. E. G., "Saxon" is from "Isaac's son"; "Danube" and "Denmark" reference the tribe of "Dan", etc.

--Rich
Oh, yeah, I remember reading that many years ago. What was that guy's name, who was into this stuff, and founded a false church, which has since repudiated much of his teachings and become more mainstream Christian church? Armstrong?

Seems to ME, anyone who is desperate enough can find similarities between anything, if they look hard enough, as proof that those things are related, will find t. Does NOT make it true, though.
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
And anyone could have made up the names in the OT. Like Moses. It's the name of a person that doesn't exist in history. But as long as Joseph Smith is making up names, it seems quite convenient that names he "made up" happen to match names commonly used by the people, now extinct that he knew, supposedly, nothing about...

One has to wonder how many times a person will accidentally get something right before people realize that it wasn't an accident. For our critics, it doesn't matter. For them, the world is chaos and everything is an accident including Adam and Eve eating the apple. Their God has to catch up with us and fix the mistakes we made in his plan. That doesn't sound like an all-knowing God.
What makes you think that Moses didn't exist? Jesus thought he did.

No one said the "world was chaos" or that "everything is an accident."

And who ever said that Smith got anything right, accidentally or otherwise? But I did look up those names and found similarities between the Mormon names and names from the Bible, except for "com." Simple word to make up. Wouldn't you say?

But you know the old saying--even a broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn't mean it tells good time, though.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Interesting. It does, however, remind me of Anglo-Israelism, which did similar verbal gymnastics. E. G., "Saxon" is from "Isaac's son"; "Danube" and "Denmark" reference the tribe of "Dan", etc.

--Rich
There really is no relationship between the information offered in the OP and your conjecture.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
What makes you think that Moses didn't exist? Jesus thought he did.
That is not historical evidence. There is no historical evidence that Moses ever existed. No one in pharaoh's court ever by that name. No one by that name or anyone, ever, to have parted the Red Sea. No one to lead the children of Israel around the wilderness for 40 years. It's all made up, according to the archaeological evidence.

I suppose, if we wait long enough, someone might discover his name amongst the historical record.

But, I'm guessing your going to miss the point of my statement.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
No one said the "world was chaos" or that "everything is an accident."
Yes. Someone did. I did. I draw that conclusion from your beliefs. Adam and Eve screwed up God's plan. He didn't intend for that to happen, according to you all. My statement stands as it is.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
And who ever said that Smith got anything right
Well, certainly not you all. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Again, you missed the point.
But I did look up those names and found similarities between the Mormon names and names from the Bible, except for "com." Simple word to make up. Wouldn't you say?
I said what I would say.
But you know the old saying--even a broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn't mean it tells good time, though.
As I said, one has to wonder how many accidents have to happen before people realize it was no accident. ;)
 
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