Surviving Jaredite Names in Mesoamerica

Bonnie

Super Member
Well, certainly not you all. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Again, you missed the point.

Not any Christian on here says Smith got anything right. And I missed no point.

I gave reasonable explanations for those names.
I said what I would say.

As I said, one has to wonder how many accidents have to happen before people realize it was no accident. ;)
One has to wonder why people think a broken clock keeps good time...
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
Yes. Someone did. I did. I draw that conclusion from your beliefs. Adam and Eve screwed up God's plan. He didn't intend for that to happen, according to you all. My statement stands as it is.
Adam and Eve messed up.. But it still is not chaos. God is still sovereign.

And your conclusions are wrong. Try again.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
That is not historical evidence. There is no historical evidence that Moses ever existed. No one in pharaoh's court ever by that name. No one by that name or anyone, ever, to have parted the Red Sea. No one to lead the children of Israel around the wilderness for 40 years. It's all made up, according to the archaeological evidence.

I suppose, if we wait long enough, someone might discover his name amongst the historical record.

But, I'm guessing your going to miss the point of my statement.
But Jesus talked about Moses. Seems He thought Moses existed, even without archeological evidence. Same with Abraham. I believe Jesus. Don't you?

But while there is no archeological evidence for EVERYONE mentioned in the Bible, there is SOME evidence for SOME people mentioned in the Bible.

The same cannot be said for the BoM.
 

John t

Super Member
The poster eventually came clean and gave the CITATION for his plagiarism.
I seriously doubt that the poster would have recanted had a moderator not intervened.

The whole thing is akin to the adage about lawyers: How do you know that a lawyer is lying? The lawyer's mouth is moving

What sort of "rotten fruit" comes from a cult that permits its followers to plagiarize fiction to prop up the false statements about nonexistent "Jaredites"??.
 

Mesenja

Active member

Book of Mormon Traditions Found Only in Mesoamerica by Diane Wirth

AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS


This phrase, or others with a similar wording,appears on a regular basis throughout the Book of Mormon. The phrase “AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS” in its various forms appears many times in Maya hieroglyphs,and is not to be taken lightly for the similarity of literary styles.

3 See Joseph L. Allen, Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon (Orem, Utah: S A Publishers, 1989), 31-34.

CHIASMUS CHIASMUS is a literary style that sets phrases in a certain order, has a central idea, and then retraces the wording in the opposite order. This is done in three places that are significant to Latter-day Saints: 1. In the Old Testament, 2. In the Book of Mormon, and 3. In Mesoamerica, more particularly on some of their stone stelae and the Quiché Maya’s Popol Vuh.

10 John W. Welch, ―Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon,‖ in BYU Studies 10:1 (1969), 69-84. For Chiasmus in Mesoamerica, see Robert F. Smith, ―Assessing the Broad Impact of Jack Welch‘s Discovery of Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon,‖ in Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, Vol. 16, No. 2, 2007.
 

imJRR

Well-known member
It doesn't matter what people think a word means, as we can see from our arguments with our critics. As far as the words listed here, At the time Joseph Smith was translating, these words had no meaning at all. Our critics used to get all riled over the word Alma, claiming it was a woman's name.

As I said before in the over broad generalized question where you all just can't see evidence if it slapped you in the face, all we need is time and eventually science will catch up.

Here again, we have evidence of the Book of Mormon's authenticity. And if we go with @imJRR comment, we can now say this is "proof" the Book of Mormon is everything it purports to be. :rolleyes: Because "evidence = proof" :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

No actual evidence/proof that any truly honest person would acknowledge as being real or true has ever been provided for the BoM being true. You certainly have never provided anything that any honest person would acknowledge as being true in the thread you referenced. The posting history is glaringly clear about that, and you don't have the capacity to imagine how content I am to let readers look over the thread and decide for themselves about it or about the (MAJOR GUFFAW!) "honesty and integrity" of your posts.
 

Bonnie

Super Member

Book of Mormon Traditions Found Only in Mesoamerica by Diane Wirth

AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS


This phrase, or others with a similar wording,appears on a regular basis throughout the Book of Mormon. The phrase “AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS” in its various forms appears many times in Maya hieroglyphs,and is not to be taken lightly for the similarity of literary styles.

3 See Joseph L. Allen, Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon (Orem, Utah: S A Publishers, 1989), 31-34.

CHIASMUS CHIASMUS is a literary style that sets phrases in a certain order, has a central idea, and then retraces the wording in the opposite order. This is done in three places that are significant to Latter-day Saints: 1. In the Old Testament, 2. In the Book of Mormon, and 3. In Mesoamerica, more particularly on some of their stone stelae and the Quiché Maya’s Popol Vuh.

10 John W. Welch, ―Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon,‖ in BYU Studies 10:1 (1969), 69-84. For Chiasmus in Mesoamerica, see Robert F. Smith, ―Assessing the Broad Impact of Jack Welch‘s Discovery of Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon,‖ in Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, Vol. 16, No. 2, 2007.
It also appears in the Bible...surprise!
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Book of Mormon Traditions Found Only in Mesoamerica by Diane Wirth

AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS


This phrase, or others with a similar wording,appears on a regular basis throughout the Book of Mormon. The phrase “AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS” in its various forms appears many times in Maya hieroglyphs,and is not to be taken lightly for the similarity of literary styles.

3 See Joseph L. Allen, Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon (Orem, Utah: S A Publishers, 1989), 31-34.

CHIASMUS CHIASMUS is a literary style that sets phrases in a certain order, has a central idea, and then retraces the wording in the opposite order. This is done in three places that are significant to Latter-day Saints: 1. In the Old Testament, 2. In the Book of Mormon, and 3. In Mesoamerica, more particularly on some of their stone stelae and the Quiché Maya’s Popol Vuh.

10 John W. Welch, ―Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon,‖ in BYU Studies 10:1 (1969), 69-84. For Chiasmus in Mesoamerica, see Robert F. Smith, ―Assessing the Broad Impact of Jack Welch‘s Discovery of Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon,‖ in Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, Vol. 16, No. 2, 2007.
We’ve talked quite a bit about chiasmus here in the past. It can be found just about everywhere, even in ancient Chinese writings.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
And where did you copy that from?

Chiasmus is not inherently Hebrew. It was actually more prominently Greek, but also Roman, Chinese, Aramaic, Babylonian, English, and others.

Shakespeare is full of chiasmus. Copying the writing style of the Bible is not difficult. It’s not proof of the Book of Mormon.
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
---------------------
edited

<< Linda Schele was an expert in deciphering Maya hieroglyphics has interpreted this glyph as "iwal uti" or "and then it came to pass" (Glyph F16,) (Palenque Resources, Monuments & Inscriptions)
That's nice...but it is in the Bible in the OT. So, your glyph proves nothing. Smith just took that phrase from the Bible....and took it....and took it....and took it....and took it.....and took it.....and took it....and took it.....and took it.................................................
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
And where did you copy that from?

Chiasmus is not inherently Hebrew. It was actually more prominently Greek, but also Roman, Chinese, Aramaic, Babylonian, English, and others.

Shakespeare is full of chiasmus. Copying the writing style of the Bible is not difficult. It’s not proof of the Book of Mormon.

A) "Old King Cole"
..... B) "... was a merry old soul"
..... B) "and a merry old soul"
A) "... was he."
 

Bonnie

Super Member
A) "Old King Cole"
..... B) "... was a merry old soul"
..... B) "and a merry old soul"
A) "... was he."
Is that a chiasmus? A kind of restating the same thought, only backwards? I never did understand what a chiasmus truly is.
 

John t

Super Member
AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS

This phrase, or others with a similar wording,appears on a regular basis throughout the Book of Mormon. The phrase “AND THEN IT CAME TO PASS” in its various forms appears many times in Maya hieroglyphs,and is not to be taken lightly for the similarity of literary styles.
I am sure that you are not familiar with a chi square analysis. It is a statistical tool that people who know statistics use to measures what is, against what normal circumstances state It is an English language phrase, and is not a Mayan language phrase. AGAIN (sigh) you are plagiarizing something from an uneducated and unnamed source expecting us to believe it

Because There is ZERO that identifies the author, nor his credentials, all we are left with is your say-so, and given the recent history of being caught by a mod, it is not inaccurate to say that it seems as if you are doing it again. Therefore, you are simply making "stuff" up, (or copying it from another source, namely FAMSI http://research.famsi.org/mdp/mdp_index.php.


You wrote:
So are we going to talk about lies now ???

I AM CALLING YOUR BLUFF. Prove that balderdash is accurate, or else recant

SECOND your post wrongly assumes that the symbols of Mayan hieroglyphics correspond to English grammar and syntax. That is a fiction, born from a crisis of desperation, having no basis in fact. According to the former site mentioned above,
  • The Maya script involves over 800 distinct signs, but only 300-400 appear to have been in (common) use at any one time.
  • Most of the signs from this early period (roughly 200 BC- AD 250) were logograms; syllabic signs commonly appeared later, although the cause of this is debated among epigrapher
  • (T)he Russian scholar Yuriy Valentinovich Knorozov proved without a doubt that the Maya writing system was a logo-syllabic script composed of both word signs and signs that represent a syllable. In this respect, Maya hieroglyphs are similar to other writing systems such as Akkadian cuneiform, Egyptian hieroglyphic writing, or modern Japanese script.
Therefore, given the dates in the prologue, as well as the names of languages having the same , it is nothing short of being preposterous to attempt to assume any relationship to amy modern language as you suggest.

I AM CALLING YOUR BLUFF
. Prove that balderdash is accurate, or else recant.

As a corollary to the first point, the statistical analysis of that phrase, "and it came to pass" is used to demonstrate beyond any shadow of doubt that the preponderance of that phrase "and it...." in the Book of Mormon versus the times it is found in the Bible proves that in contrast to the claims of y'all that the entire book of Mormon is done by one author, namely Joseph Smith, and not the so-called angel, "Moroni"

I AM CALLING YOUR BLUFF. Prove that balderdash is accurate, or else recant.
 

Mesenja

Active member
Linda Schele was an American Mesoamerican archaeologist who was an expert in the field of Maya epigraphy and iconography. She played an invaluable role in the decipherment of much of the Maya hieroglyphs.
 
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