Surviving Jaredite Names in Mesoamerica

[Magdalena]

Five Compelling Archeological Evidences For the Book of Mormon​

Post contributed by Chris Heimerdinger

1. Metal plates​

It almost seems a shame to use up one of my 5 evidences here. The issue of inscribed metal plates in stone boxes has been so effectively laid to rest by modern archaeology that Latter-day Saints hardly remember when it was one of Mormonism’s most prevalent and scathing criticisms. We were told the ancients did not preserve records on plates.1 We were told ancient Israelites, in particular, did not write on plates.2 We were told they would have been too heavy for Joseph to carry while running from ruffians or heft from one hiding place to the next.3

Time has rendered all such objections moot. Hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of metal plates—copper, silver, bronze, brass, and yes, gold—many in stone boxes, and even some bound with metal rings—have been unearthed in places as diverse as Spain, Bulgaria, Italy, Greece, Korea, Egypt, Syria, Iran, even Mesoamerica—too many to mention. As for Israel, not only have we found the famous copper scroll of Qumran, but two small silver plates from Jerusalem that date to the 7th–6th century B.C.4

Finally, we learn of a shimmering gold and copper alloy called tumbaga by the Spanish that has existed from pre-Columbian times—the same composition described by Joseph’s brother, William—bringing in the plates at a nice “heftable” weight of 40–60 lbs.5

Chris Heimerdinger, the author of the fictional young adult series Tennis Shoes Among the Nephites?

 

[Mesenja]

BOOK of MORMON RESOURCES​

Tuesday, May 16, 2017​

Top 10 Archaeological Evidences for the Book of Mormon​

2. The Book of Mormon mentions a pre-existing place called Nahom on the Red Sea side of the Arabian Peninsula. Ishmael was buried at Nahom 1 Nephi 16:34, his family mourned there 1 Nephi 16:35, and Lehi's party changed direction at that place and traveled almost due east 1 Nephi 17:1 until they came to Bountiful 1 Nephi 17:5 by the sea. A place called Nihm/Naham does exist on the Red Sea side of the Arabian Peninsula in modern Yemen.

Naham is home to the largest ancient cemetery in Arabia. The Semitic root of the term implies sorrow or mourning. The name in this geographic area is attested from Lehi's era.

And, travelling almost due east from the Naham Tribal Area brings one to Khor Khofot, the one place on the south Arabian coast that meets all of the Book of Mormon criteria for Bountiful.

 

[Mesenja]

3. The Book of Mormon says Lehi and his family used an amalgamation of Hebrew and Egyptian language elements 1 Nephi 1:2. A similar compound system was in use 1,000 years later at the end of the Nephite era Mormon 9:32-33. We now know that a form of Egyptian script known as Palestinian Hieratic was in use by Hebrew-speaking Judean scribes in Lehi's day. Nearly 200 examples of this Hebrew/Egyptian amalgam have been found.

 

[Mesenja]

4. The Book of Mormon says the people of Zarahemla (commonly called Mulekites) sailed across the sea from the ancient Near East ca. 588 BC and made landfall in the land northward, then settled permanently in a sparsely-populated part of the land southward Alma 22:30-31, Omni 1:15-16. This means they must have sailed past the Olmec capital, La Venta,which was going strong in 588 BC.


The presence of Jewish/Phoenician seafarers in what is today Tabasco, Mexico would have been sensational news to the Olmec and we have good evidence that they memorialized the inter-cultural encounter in stone on La Venta Stela 3 excavated in 1943 by Matthew W. Stirling and Philip Drucker. This sculpture is generally dated ca. 600 - 550 BC and is sometimes euphemistically called the "Uncle Sam Stela."

Drucker said "... the principal figures on this monument represent a meeting of Olmec and non-Olmec personages." Philip Drucker, "On the Nature of Olmec Polity" in The Olmec and Their Neighbors: Essays in Memory of Matthew W. Stirling, Elizabeth P. Benson,Editor,Washington,D.C.: Dumbarton Oaks, 1981,p. 44. He goes on to say that La Venta Monuments 13 and 19 also depict non-Olmec foreigners arriving at the site.

Tatiana Proskouriakoff called the person on the right "... a bearded man with a conspicuously aquiline nose." She called the figure a "bearded visitor" and a "bearded stranger." She said "... these figures represent two racially distinct groups of people." Tatiana Proskouriakoff, "Olmec and Maya Art: Problems of Their Stylistic Relation" in Dumbarton Oaks Conference on the Olmec October 28th and 29th,1967, Elizabeth P. Benson,Editor,Washington,D.C. Dumbarton Oaks,1968, p. 122

 

[Magdalena]

BOOK of MORMON RESOURCES​

Tuesday, May 16, 2017​

Top 10 Archaeological Evidences for the Book of Mormon​

2. The Book of Mormon mentions a pre-existing place called Nahom on the Red Sea side of the Arabian Peninsula. Ishmael was buried at Nahom 1 Nephi 16:34, his family mourned there 1 Nephi 16:35, and Lehi's party changed direction at that place and traveled almost due east 1 Nephi 17:1 until they came to Bountiful 1 Nephi 17:5 by the sea. A place called Nihm/Naham does exist on the Red Sea side of the Arabian Peninsula in modern Yemen.

Naham is home to the largest ancient cemetery in Arabia. The Semitic root of the term implies sorrow or mourning. The name in this geographic area is attested from Lehi's era.

And, travelling almost due east from the Naham Tribal Area brings one to Khor Khofot, the one place on the south Arabian coast that meets all of the Book of Mormon criteria for Bountiful.

Why isn’t the Mormon church claiming all this “evidence?”

 

[brotherofJared]

I already explained about the chiasmus.

Yes and you still haven't addressed how Joseph managed to create them from a stone in a hat.

 

[brotherofJared]

No, it isn't at all evidence.

And this is how you all address the issues. "No. It doesn't exist", even though it does.

 

[brotherofJared]

I just showed from the archaeologist that the phrase can be translated as "now it happened/happens"--not just "and it came to pass."

So? It can also be translated as "and it came to pass". How ridiculous can an argument be?

 

[Magdalena]

Yes and you still haven't addressed how Joseph managed to create them from a stone in a hat.

How did he manage to copy Isaiah from the KJV with his head in his hat?

 

[brotherofJared]

Also, the Mayan Indians are of Mongolian race descent. People from the middle east, like Jews and Arabs, are Caucasians.

Also, So what? Two families integrating into an already existing population that had a far larger gene pool. How hard do you think it would be to find a drop of freshwater spilled into the pacific ocean?

 

[brotherofJared]

that phrase is found in the Bible and that is where Smith got it from.

And yet, one wonders how the Mayans got it. They must have had the Bible. If Smith found it there, then perhaps the Mayans found it there too.

 

[brotherofJared]

that phrase is found in the Bible and that is where Smith got it from. He used it and overused it in the BoM--I think I once counted it 5 times in 2 paragraphs.

Oh. The battle of opinions can never be won, can it? Let me know when you have something of substance.

 

[Magdalena]

Also, So what? Two families integrating into an already existing population that had a far larger gene pool. How hard do you think it would be to find a drop of freshwater spilled into the pacific ocean?

Mormon prophets used to teach that all native Americans were lamanites. Until it became obvious that their doctrine was false.

 

[brotherofJared]

This Used To Count As Home Teaching​

Some of Joseph Smith’s (Lesser Known) Big, Beautiful Bullseyes​

August 19, 2018

(excerpt)


An Ancient American City Named Bountiful

Now jumping into the Book of Mormon. It’s about some ancient Israelites that fled from Jerusalem. In the old world,before they boarded any boats,they found an Oasis in the desert and called it Bountiful. Then they built,boarded and sailed in ships. When they landed on the American continent,eventually they found another sweet spot and called it Bountiful as well. Lehi’s descendants used the name Bountiful twice. (1st Nephi 17:5 & Alma 22:29) If it ain't broke - am I right?
Now fast forward to Mayan times. Pre-Columbian Mayan times:

“Here is one of the most important surviving works of pre-Columbian civilization,Rabinal Achi,a Mayan drama set a century before the arrival of the Spanish,produced by the translator of the best selling Popol Vuh. The first direct translation into English from Quiche Maya, based on the original text, Rabinal Achi is the story of city-states,war,and nobility….”

(https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/542161.Rabinal_Achi)

And here is an excerpt from the book form of Rabinal Achi. It’s a map with depicted Mayan cities:

EDITED BY MODERATOR--IMAGE VIOLATION. ONLY SUPER MEMBERS CAN POST IMAGES.

That doesn’t mean it is the Bountiful,of course. That is not the argument here at all. It just means Bountiful was definitely used as a city name in ancient America. Of all the possible city names that could have been used – Joseph Smith 'chose' Bountiful as the one to slip into that verse taking place in that time.

It matters not how much "evidence" is produced, our critics' opinions always trumps "proof". Evidence is only proof when they think it is.

 

[brotherofJared]

Mormon prophets used to teach that all native Americans were lamanites. Until it became obvious that their doctrine was false.

Used too?

You know, The entire civilized world, as we know it, used to teach that the world was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe.

Please show me where any of them said, "Thus saith the Lord God, native Americans are lamanites". Did they ever say God said it? Nope.

 

[brotherofJared]

How did he manage to copy Isaiah from the KJV with his head in his hat?

Isn't that your job to explain? There are witnesses. Nearly every word came out of that hat, no reference material. No Bible. He didn't even look that the plates. I'm ready when you are. Start explaining.

 

[brotherofJared]

"nouns,in Hebrew, are derived from roots -- as are Hebrew verbs -- by the addition of certain vowel patterns that distinguish them from other parts of speech.”

I worked with a guy from Israel, making an alarm display using Hebrew. A large problem was in trying to abbreviate Hebrew words because they dn't hv vwls!
So, I'm wondering how they managed to get "vowel patterns."

The fact that they didn't write with vowels doesn't mean they didn't have them.

 

[brotherofJared]

Another problem is that the verb form of "rent" is "rend", to tear

Very good. However, the structure of the sentence being discussed shows the word being used as a noun.

 

[Magdalena]

Isn't that your job to explain? There are witnesses. Nearly every word came out of that hat, no reference material. No Bible. He didn't even look that the plates. I'm ready when you are. Start explaining.

You’re the Mormon. You explain it.

The KJV wasn't put together until 1611 A.D. Smith managed to copy huge portions of it, including the KJV’s own idiosyncrasies, by looking at a rock in his hat.

 

[brotherofJared]

4. The Book of Mormon says the people of Zarahemla (commonly called Mulekites) sailed across the sea from the ancient Near East ca. 588 BC and made landfall in the land northward, then settled permanently in a sparsely-populated part of the land southward Alma 22:30-31, Omni 1:15-16. This means they must have sailed past the Olmec capital, La Venta,which was going strong in 588 BC.


The presence of Jewish/Phoenician seafarers in what is today Tabasco, Mexico would have been sensational news to the Olmec and we have good evidence that they memorialized the inter-cultural encounter in stone on La Venta Stela 3 excavated in 1943 by Matthew W. Stirling and Philip Drucker. This sculpture is generally dated ca. 600 - 550 BC and is sometimes euphemistically called the "Uncle Sam Stela."

Drucker said "... the principal figures on this monument represent a meeting of Olmec and non-Olmec personages." Philip Drucker, "On the Nature of Olmec Polity" in The Olmec and Their Neighbors: Essays in Memory of Matthew W. Stirling, Elizabeth P. Benson,Editor,Washington,D.C.: Dumbarton Oaks, 1981,p. 44. He goes on to say that La Venta Monuments 13 and 19 also depict non-Olmec foreigners arriving at the site.

Tatiana Proskouriakoff called the person on the right "... a bearded man with a conspicuously aquiline nose." She called the figure a "bearded visitor" and a "bearded stranger." She said "... these figures represent two racially distinct groups of people." Tatiana Proskouriakoff, "Olmec and Maya Art: Problems of Their Stylistic Relation" in Dumbarton Oaks Conference on the Olmec October 28th and 29th,1967, Elizabeth P. Benson,Editor,Washington,D.C. Dumbarton Oaks,1968, p. 122

Interesting, isn't it? Again, I have to wonder how many things Joseph Smith would have had to get accidentally right before our critics realize that it was no accident. I can't help but think that even in their lofty afterlife of never-ending happiness, they still won't understand.