T<U>LIP - Unconditional Election

Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Election

Election, and its cognate verb, "[to] elect" and noun, "[the] elect", come from the Greek word, "εκλεκτος" ("eklektos"). It is also translated as "choose" or "chosen", since "choose" and "elect" are synonyms. Throughout the New Testament, we have countless references to "God chose", or "chosen by God", or "God's elect", or references to believers as "chosen [ones]" or "elect[ed ones]"

So on what basis does God decide to "choose" or "elect" a sinner? There are two common ideas, namely the Jewish idea of works (ie. of the Law), or by faith. Well, we can reject the first idea rather easily and quickly:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2Tim. 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works ...
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, ...
Rom. 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad ...
Rom. 9:11 ... in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works ...
Rom. 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom. 11:5 ... there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;


When Does Election Occur?

One of the reasons we know that election is not dependent on us, or anything we do, is because God has elected His people before they were born, and in fact from before the foundation of the world:

Jer. 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
 I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Matt. 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

This verse doesn't specifically speak on "election", but a kingdom has been prepared from the foundation of the world. And the occupants of that kingdom must be known.

Rom. 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

Gal. 1:15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,

Eph. 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Rev. 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

This verse is a little backwards, but we can use "modus tollens" to invert it to a sound conclusion. What the verse is saying is there is a book of life which has had names written in it from the foundation of the world (that's election). And all the people whose names were not written in the book have been given over to worship the beast. That means that all those whose names WERE written in the book of life from before the foundation of the world, will be saved.

(to be continued...)
 
(continuing...)

What of "Foreseen Faith"?

A common response to "Unconditional Election" is "foreseen faith", that God saw our autonomous choice of "believing", from before the foundation of the world, and elected them based on this "foreseen faith". But there a number of problems with this view, as well as two sets of Biblical refutations. The main problem is that it is a metaphorical "punt", since Scripture never teaches this, it is simply grasping at straws to try to deny that God elected His people unconditionally. But since the argument they generally use is based on Scriptures which speak of "foreknowing" or "foreknowledge", we must understand that in many cases in the Bible, it doesn't refer merely to knowing "information", but often refers to foreloving/forechoosing PEOPLE. This comes as an extension of the Hebrew/Greek understanding of "know" (discussed here). The lexicons recognize this extension of meaning of "foreknow" as demonstrated in this post.


Faith is the Gift of God

First of all, faith is "not of ourselves, it is the gift of God". So you can only believe (or "have faith") if you have been given faith by God. And if God doesn't give you faith, then you can't believe. So GOD is the one who determines who has faith, and will believe, not man.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Many try to turn this on its head, and make it say, "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life", but that's not what it says.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Notice too that it does not say we are saved "by faith", as if that's the requirement. We are saved "through faith". This ist he means by which we are saved, by God giving us faith. We are saved "by" grace.

Phil. 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

Some try to argue that this is just "giving permission", but do we really need "permission" to suffer? And if believing happens independently of God, then why does anything need to be "granted"? It's also interesting that Paul wrote this in passing, to give as an example besides being given to suffer, and he didn't expect his readers to have a problem with the idea of "granted to believe".

Rom. 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

2Pet. 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Notice that we "obtained" a faith, we got it from outside of us. And it came "by the righteousness of God".

1Cor. 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

This is obviously a rhetoric question, with the implied answer of "nothing". It is all-inclusive. If we have something, we received it, and we received it from God. God has given us everything we have. We have faith, therefore we received it from God.

Not of our Will

The other problem non-Calvinists have is that Scripture teaches that salvation is NOT a matter of our will. And so unless our faith comes from somewhere other than our wills, we cannot be the determiners of whether we have faith to be saved.

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

How we're saved is "not of []our own doing". Faith is something we do. So if faith saves us, this faith must be "the gift of God".

Rom. 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.


Other Passages Which Speak to Unconditional Election

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Man has an "inability" to come (ie. "believe", cf. John 6:35), unless the Father first draws him.

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Rom. 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Eph. 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Eph. 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Notice the predestination in these passages, and that the objection of God's predestination is PEOPLE ("whom"), not a "plan" (a thing), like non-Calvinists usually like to argue. And the predestination is according to GOD's will, not man's.


Conclusion

So we've seen that God elects a chosen people.
He elected this people from before the foundation of the world.
Election wasn't based on works.
Election wasn't based on the will of man.
Salvation comes "through" faith, which is the gift of God.
There is nothing in man that determines who God elects, or who He gives faith to.

Election is unconditional.
Praise God!
 
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Theo1689 said:
(continuing...)

What of "Foreseen Faith"?

A common response to "Unconditional Election" is "foreseen faith", that God saw our autonomous choice of "believing", from before the foundation of the world, and elected them based on this "foreseen faith". But there a number of problems with this view, as well as two sets of Biblical refutations. The main problem is that it is a metaphorical "punt", since Scripture never teaches this, it is simply grasping at straws to try to deny that God elected His people unconditionally. But since the argument they generally use is based on Scriptures which speak of "foreknowing" or "foreknowledge", we must understand that in many cases in the Bible, it doesn't refer merely to knowing "information", but often refers to foreloving/forechoosing PEOPLE. This comes as an extension of the Hebrew/Greek understanding of "know" (discussed here). The lexicons recognize this extension of meaning of "foreknow" as demonstrated in this post.


Faith is the Gift of God

First of all, faith is "not of ourselves, it is the gift of God". So you can only believe (or "have faith") if you have been given faith by God. And if God doesn't give you faith, then you can't believe. So GOD is the one who determines who has faith, and will believe, not man.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Many try to turn this on its head, and make it say, "as many as believed were appointed to eternal life", but that's not what it says.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Notice too that it does not say we are saved "by faith", as if that's the requirement. We are saved "through faith". This ist he means by which we are saved, by God giving us faith. We are saved "by" grace.

Phil. 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

Some try to argue that this is just "giving permission", but do we really need "permission" to suffer? And if believing happens independently of God, then why does anything need to be "granted"? It's also interesting that Paul wrote this in passing, to give as an example besides being given to suffer, and he didn't expect his readers to have a problem with the idea of "granted to believe".

Rom. 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

2Pet. 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Notice that we "obtained" a faith, we got it from outside of us. And it came "by the righteousness of God".

1Cor. 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

This is obviously a rhetoric question, with the implied answer of "nothing". It is all-inclusive. If we have something, we received it, and we received it from God. God has given us everything we have. We have faith, therefore we received it from God.

Not of our Will

The other problem non-Calvinists have is that Scripture teaches that salvation is NOT a matter of our will. And so unless our faith comes from somewhere other than our wills, we cannot be the determiners of whether we have faith to be saved.

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

How we're saved is "not of []our own doing". Faith is something we do. So if faith saves us, this faith must be "the gift of God".

Rom. 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.


Other Passages Which Speak to Unconditional Election

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Man has an "inability" to come (ie. "believe", cf. John 6:35), unless the Father first draws him.

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

Rom. 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Eph. 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Eph. 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Notice the predestination in these passages, and that the objection of God's predestination is PEOPLE ("whom"), not a "plan" (a thing), like non-Calvinists usually like to argue. And the predestination is according to GOD's will, not man's.


Conclusion

So we've seen that God elects a chosen people.
He elected this people from before the foundation of the world.
Election wasn't based on works.
Election wasn't based on the will of man.
Salvation comes "through" faith, which is the gift of God.
There is nothing in man that determines who God elects, or who He gives faith to.

Election is unconditional.
Praise God!
Click to expand...

Fore-knew is not election, it is simply knew before.

Election is maybe you will be accepted ... maybe not.

Not a greek schoolar, but that has be close to text.
 
Slyzr said:
Fore-knew is not election, it is simply knew before.

Election is maybe you will be accepted ... maybe not.

Not a greek schoolar, but that has be close to text.
Click to expand...
Yep right about foreknowledge.
 
Slyzr said:
Fore-knew is not election, it is simply knew before.
Click to expand...

I never said it meant "election".

Slyzr said:
Election is maybe you will be accepted ... maybe not.
Click to expand...

That's not Biblical.

Slyzr said:
Not a greek schoolar, but that has be close to text.
Click to expand...

Clearly not.
And you clearly didn't read the linked posts I included.
So here is what the lexicons say:

BDAG:
προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.

[What this is basically saying is that when the obejct of "foreknow" is a thing, it means "know beforehand", but when the object is a person (eg. Rom. 8:29), it means CHOOSE beforehand.]


Strong's:
προγινώσκω proginosko, prog-in-oce´-ko; from 4253 and 1097; to know beforehand, i.e. foresee: — foreknow (ordain), know (before).


UBS Lexicon:
προγινώσκω (aor. προέγνων) know already, know beforehand; choose from the beginning, choose beforehand


Mounce Greek Dictionary:
προγινώσκω proginōskō 5x
to know beforehand, to be previously acquainted with, Acts 26:5; 2 Pet. 3:17; to determine on beforehand, to foreordain, 1 Pet. 1:20; in NT, from the Hebrew, to foreknow, to appoint as the subject of future privileges, Rom. 8:29; 11:2
 
Theo1689 said:
I never said it meant "election".
Click to expand...

Never said you did.

and foreknew .... clearly means all ready knew.

And election means ... something else; probably something like getting vetted for an adoption.
 
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Theo1689 said:
I never said it meant "election".



That's not Biblical.



Clearly not.
And you clearly didn't read the linked posts I included.
So here is what the lexicons say:

BDAG:
προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.

[What this is basically saying is that when the obejct of "foreknow" is a thing, it means "know beforehand", but when the object is a person (eg. Rom. 8:29), it means CHOOSE beforehand.]


Strong's:
προγινώσκω proginosko, prog-in-oce´-ko; from 4253 and 1097; to know beforehand, i.e. foresee: — foreknow (ordain), know (before).


UBS Lexicon:
προγινώσκω (aor. προέγνων) know already, know beforehand; choose from the beginning, choose beforehand


Mounce Greek Dictionary:
προγινώσκω proginōskō 5x
to know beforehand, to be previously acquainted with, Acts 26:5; 2 Pet. 3:17; to determine on beforehand, to foreordain, 1 Pet. 1:20; in NT, from the Hebrew, to foreknow, to appoint as the subject of future privileges, Rom. 8:29; 11:2
Click to expand...
Too bad Romans 8:28, 29 say nothing at all about choosing before hand

Those spoken of are "those who love God" not some God unconditionally selected

These are men God had known in the past

Romans 8:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Paul is using these men as an example to support his point that all things work together for good for those who love God

Romans 8:29–30 (KJV 1900) — 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

They lived, they died and they were glorified

Paul is not speaking of the future but using the past to drive home his point


And we have a further example of Pauls use of foreknew here

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

and it clearly refers to men God knew before

Romans 11:2–4 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
 
fltom said:
Too bad Romans 8:28, 29 say nothing at all about choosing before hand

Those spoken of are "those who love God" not some God unconditionally selected

These are men God had known in the past

Romans 8:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Paul is using these men as an example to support his point that all things work together for good for those who love God

Romans 8:29–30 (KJV 1900) — 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

They lived, they died and they were glorified

Paul is not speaking of the future but using the past to drive home his point


And we have a further example of Pauls use of foreknew here

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

and it clearly refers to men God knew before

Romans 11:2–4 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Click to expand...
Yes piece meal theology
 
fltom said:
Yes to know (Ginosko) does not mean to chose

adding a prefix of pro - before does not convert the meaning of the word
Click to expand...

BDAG:
προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.
 
Since some of our favourite heretics in this board seem to love "Got Questions", I thought it would be interesting to share an excerpt from one of their articles:

"When one examines what the Bible teaches about election and predestination, it becomes clear that the doctrine of unconditional election does accurately represent what the Bible teaches on this important subject. While this—or any of the other Doctrines of Grace—can stand on their own merit, their importance becomes even clearer when they are considered together systematically with all the Bible teaches about salvation. They essentially serve as building blocks, with each one furnishing a necessary part of a biblical understanding of salvation. Total depravity defines man’s need for salvation and reveals his hopelessness when left to his own resources. It leaves man with the question “Who can be saved?” The answer lies in an understanding of unconditional election—God’s sovereign choice to save people despite their depravity and based solely on His redeeming for Himself people from every tribe, tongue and nation. This He accomplishes by predestinating them “to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will” (Ephesians 1:5). A proper understanding of this doctrine should not result in questioning the justice of God, but instead in marveling at His great mercy. The question we really should ask is not why God chooses only some to salvation, but why He would choose any at all."
-- Got Questions, "Unconditional election - is it biblical?"
 
Theo1689 said:
Since some of our favourite heretics in this board seem to love "Got Questions", I thought it would be interesting to share an excerpt from one of their articles:

"When one examines what the Bible teaches about election and predestination, it becomes clear that the doctrine of unconditional election does accurately represent what the Bible teaches on this important subject. While this—or any of the other Doctrines of Grace—can stand on their own merit, their importance becomes even clearer when they are considered together systematically with all the Bible teaches about salvation. They essentially serve as building blocks, with each one furnishing a necessary part of a biblical understanding of salvation. Total depravity defines man’s need for salvation and reveals his hopelessness when left to his own resources. It leaves man with the question “Who can be saved?” The answer lies in an understanding of unconditional election—God’s sovereign choice to save people despite their depravity and based solely on His redeeming for Himself people from every tribe, tongue and nation. This He accomplishes by predestinating them “to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will” (Ephesians 1:5). A proper understanding of this doctrine should not result in questioning the justice of God, but instead in marveling at His great mercy. The question we really should ask is not why God chooses only some to salvation, but why He would choose any at all."
-- Got Questions, "Unconditional election - is it biblical?"
Click to expand...

How can elected, for not being, work out.

adoption?
 
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Theo1689 said:
Election

Election, and its cognate verb, "[to] elect" and noun, "[the] elect", come from the Greek word, "εκλεκτος" ("eklektos"). It is also translated as "choose" or "chosen", since "choose" and "elect" are synonyms. Throughout the New Testament, we have countless references to "God chose", or "chosen by God", or "God's elect", or references to believers as "chosen [ones]" or "elect[ed ones]"

So on what basis does God decide to "choose" or "elect" a sinner?
Click to expand...


Whether they have died together with His son.

The elect are those found in the Chosen One are the chosen.

Theo1689 said:
There are two common ideas, namely the Jewish idea of works (ie. of the Law), or by faith. Well, we can reject the first idea rather easily and quickly:

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; ...
Eph. 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2Tim. 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works ...
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, ...
Rom. 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work ... his faith is counted as righteousness,
Rom. 4:6 ... the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
Rom. 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad ...
Rom. 9:11 ... in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works ...
Rom. 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom. 11:5 ... there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works;


When Does Election Occur?

One of the reasons we know that election is not dependent on us, or anything we do, is because God has elected His people before they were born, and in fact from before the foundation of the world:

Jer. 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born I consecrated you;
 I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Matt. 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

This verse doesn't specifically speak on "election", but a kingdom has been prepared from the foundation of the world. And the occupants of that kingdom must be known.

Rom. 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

Gal. 1:15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,

Eph. 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

Rev. 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

This verse is a little backwards, but we can use "modus tollens" to invert it to a sound conclusion. What the verse is saying is there is a book of life which has had names written in it from the foundation of the world (that's election). And all the people whose names were not written in the book have been given over to worship the beast. That means that all those whose names WERE written in the book of life from before the foundation of the world, will be saved.

(to be continued...)
Click to expand...
 
Theo1689 said:
BDAG:
προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
Hs 7:5. Abs., in advance 2 Pt 3:17.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29., 11:2, Pass. of Christ προεγνωσμένος πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου 1 Pt 1:20.—Know from time past προγινώσκοντές με ἄνωθεν Ac 26:5.
Click to expand...
Theology not lexicography

How does to know become to choose

Knew before as context shows

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2–5 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

got any major translation which actually translates that way?

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2 (ESV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NASB95) — 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NIV) — 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:

Romans 11:2 (NRSV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NKJV) — 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2 (HCSB) — 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NET) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew! Do you not know what the scripture says about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (RSV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (ASV 1901) — 2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel:

Romans 11:2 (EHV) — 2 God did not reject his people whom he foreknew—or don’t you know what Scripture says about Elijah, how he was pleading with God against Israel:

Rom. 11:2 —LSB
“GOD HAS NOT REJECTED HIS PEOPLE whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?”

foreknow does not mean to chose
 
fltom said:
Theology not lexicography

How does to know become to choose

Knew before as context shows

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2–5 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

got any major translation which actually translates that way?

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2 (ESV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NASB95) — 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NIV) — 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:

Romans 11:2 (NRSV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NKJV) — 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2 (HCSB) — 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NET) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew! Do you not know what the scripture says about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (RSV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (ASV 1901) — 2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel:

Romans 11:2 (EHV) — 2 God did not reject his people whom he foreknew—or don’t you know what Scripture says about Elijah, how he was pleading with God against Israel:

Rom. 11:2 —LSB
“GOD HAS NOT REJECTED HIS PEOPLE whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?”

foreknow does not mean to chose
Click to expand...
Correct once again refuting the false teaching !
 
fltom said:
Theology not lexicography

How does to know become to choose

Knew before as context shows

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2–5 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

got any major translation which actually translates that way?

Romans 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2 (ESV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NASB95) — 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NIV) — 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:

Romans 11:2 (NRSV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NKJV) — 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,

Romans 11:2 (HCSB) — 2 God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or don’t you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (NET) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew! Do you not know what the scripture says about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (RSV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?

Romans 11:2 (ASV 1901) — 2 God did not cast off his people which he foreknew. Or know ye not what the scripture saith of Elijah? how he pleadeth with God against Israel:

Romans 11:2 (EHV) — 2 God did not reject his people whom he foreknew—or don’t you know what Scripture says about Elijah, how he was pleading with God against Israel:

Rom. 11:2 —LSB
“GOD HAS NOT REJECTED HIS PEOPLE whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?”

foreknow does not mean to chose
Click to expand...

It also does not necessarily refer to knowing something about the future. The above verse is a case in point. It refers to those God knew in the past.

Many seem oblivious to the implications of this fact.
 
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