Taketh away the sin of the Church !

brightfame52

Well-known member
Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

I know the word world is here, however it means the Chuch, the Body of Christ. See the word world is the greek word kosmos and one of its meanings is:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

That definition fitly applies to the church of Christ. The word church means: ekklésia

ek, "out from and to" and 2564 /kaléō, "to call") – properly, people called out from the world and to God, the outcome being the Church (the mystical body of Christ) – i.e. the universal (total) body of believers whom God calls out from the world and into His eternal kingdom.

any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance or tumultuously: Acts 19:32, 41.

See Christ as the Lamb of God Love the church and gave Himself for it Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

By giving Himself for the Church, He took her sin away !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

I know the word world is here, however it means the Chuch, the Body of Christ. See the word world is the greek word kosmos and one of its meanings is:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

That definition fitly applies to the church of Christ. The word church means: ekklésia

ek, "out from and to" and 2564 /kaléō, "to call") – properly, people called out from the world and to God, the outcome being the Church (the mystical body of Christ) – i.e. the universal (total) body of believers whom God calls out from the world and into His eternal kingdom.

any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance or tumultuously: Acts 19:32, 41.

See Christ as the Lamb of God Love the church and gave Himself for it Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

By giving Himself for the Church, He took her sin away !
Your first problem is the definition you give is for phrases where we read of a "world of (whatever subject)" No such phrase appears in critical world texts

Your second problem is No lexicon ever associates such a definition in critical world text

Your third problem Lexicons including industry standard lexicon do give a meaning of all mankind to these critical world text

Your fourth problem is you ignore how john uses the term world/whole world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly includes unbelievers who will be judged in the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Try fitting the church into that one

It is a defective handling of scripture to fixate on one meaning and then try to force it into a passage with no regard for context or author usage


w
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Your first problem is the definition you give is for phrases where we read of a "world of (whatever subject)" No such phrase appears in critical world texts

Your second problem is No lexicon ever associates such a definition in critical world text

Your third problem Lexicons including industry standard lexicon do give a meaning of all mankind to these critical world text

Your fourth problem is you ignore how john uses the term world/whole world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly includes unbelievers who will be judged in the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Try fitting the church into that one

It is a defective handling of scripture to fixate on one meaning and then try to force it into a passage with no regard for context or author usage


w
You said all that and nothing has changed.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You said all that and nothing has changed.
Not my fault you are not open to the scriptures or facts

..........................................

Your first problem is the definition you give is for phrases where we read of a "world of (whatever subject)" No such phrase appears in critical world texts

Your second problem is No lexicon ever associates such a definition in critical world text

Your third problem Lexicons including industry standard lexicon do give a meaning of all mankind to these critical world text

Your fourth problem is you ignore how john uses the term world/whole world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly includes unbelievers who will be judged in the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Try fitting the church into that one

It is a defective handling of scripture to fixate on one meaning and then try to force it into a passage with no regard for context or author usage
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not my fault you are not open to the scriptures or facts

..........................................

Your first problem is the definition you give is for phrases where we read of a "world of (whatever subject)" No such phrase appears in critical world texts

Your second problem is No lexicon ever associates such a definition in critical world text

Your third problem Lexicons including industry standard lexicon do give a meaning of all mankind to these critical world text

Your fourth problem is you ignore how john uses the term world/whole world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly includes unbelievers who will be judged in the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Try fitting the church into that one

It is a defective handling of scripture to fixate on one meaning and then try to force it into a passage with no regard for context or author usage
Still nothing has changed to prove the Op wrong.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Still nothing has changed to prove the Op wrong.
More bald denial

If you insist on closing your eyes to the evidence you will never see truth

..........................

Your first problem is the definition you give is for phrases where we read of a "world of (whatever subject)" No such phrase appears in critical world texts

Your second problem is No lexicon ever associates such a definition in critical world text

Your third problem Lexicons including industry standard lexicon do give a meaning of all mankind to these critical world text

Your fourth problem is you ignore how john uses the term world/whole world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly includes unbelievers who will be judged in the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Try fitting the church into that one

It is a defective handling of scripture to fixate on one meaning and then try to force it into a passage with no regard for context or author usage
 

zerinus

Active member
Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

I know the word world is here, however it means the Chuch, the Body of Christ. See the word world is the greek word kosmos and one of its meanings is:

any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

That definition fitly applies to the church of Christ. The word church means: ekklésia

ek, "out from and to" and 2564 /kaléō, "to call") – properly, people called out from the world and to God, the outcome being the Church (the mystical body of Christ) – i.e. the universal (total) body of believers whom God calls out from the world and into His eternal kingdom.

any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance or tumultuously: Acts 19:32, 41.

See Christ as the Lamb of God Love the church and gave Himself for it Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

By giving Himself for the Church, He took her sin away !
"The world" doesn't mean "the church". It means what it says, "the world". Jesus takes away the sins of "the world," but does not do so unconditionally. He does so on condition of faith and repentance:

Mark 16:

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
More bald denial

If you insist on closing your eyes to the evidence you will never see truth

..........................

Your first problem is the definition you give is for phrases where we read of a "world of (whatever subject)" No such phrase appears in critical world texts

Your second problem is No lexicon ever associates such a definition in critical world text

Your third problem Lexicons including industry standard lexicon do give a meaning of all mankind to these critical world text

Your fourth problem is you ignore how john uses the term world/whole world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly includes unbelievers who will be judged in the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Try fitting the church into that one

It is a defective handling of scripture to fixate on one meaning and then try to force it into a passage with no regard for context or author usage
You still have not proved the op wrong. The world is the gathered sheep in Jn 1:29
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
"The world" doesn't mean "the church". It means what it says, "the world". Jesus takes away the sins of "the world," but does not do so unconditionally. He does so on condition of faith and repentance:

Mark 16:

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 24:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Yes it does mean the church or the Sheep In Jn 1:29 Did you see the definition for world I posted
 

zerinus

Active member
Yes it does mean the church or the Sheep In Jn 1:29 Did you see the definition for world I posted
That definition is contrived and arbitrary. Here is an interesting quote:

1 John 2:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


In this verse "the world" means what it says, "the world". John makes a distinction between "our sins" (meaning the church's), and the rest of the "world," and applies the Atonement to all. It doesn't leave any room for ambiguity or misunderstanding. The Atonement was made for the whole world, not just for the "church".
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You still have not proved the op wrong. The world is the gathered sheep in Jn 1:29
Has someone told you ignoring the evidence and just repeating your claims is an effective way to arrive at truth

They lied to you

.................

Tom had posted

Your first problem is the definition you give is for phrases where we read of a "world of (whatever subject)" No such phrase appears in critical world texts

Your second problem is No lexicon ever associates such a definition in critical world text

Your third problem Lexicons including industry standard lexicon do give a meaning of all mankind to these critical world text

Your fourth problem is you ignore how john uses the term world/whole world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

It clearly includes unbelievers who will be judged in the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Try fitting the church into that one

It is a defective handling of scripture to fixate on one meaning and then try to force it into a passage with no regard for context or author usage
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That definition is contrived and arbitrary. Here is an interesting quote:

1 John 2:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


In this verse "the world" means what it says, "the world". John makes a distinction between "our sins" (meaning the church's), and the rest of the "world," and applies the Atonement to all. It doesn't leave any room for ambiguity or misunderstanding. The Atonement was made for the whole world, not just for the "church".
That's the same. The Church or Sheep. Did you read the Op?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Has someone told you ignoring the evidence and just repeating your claims is an effective way to arrive at truth

They lied to you

.................

Tom had posted
Like I said you have not proved the op not to be true. Jn 1:29 is a world that has no sin charged to it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
They are not the same. World is world, and church is church.

World is world, church is church, seep is sheep. The Bible does not mix them up, only you do.

The OP does not support your claims, I gave you biblical verses to explain why, which you are ignoring.
Yes it does. The Church world of the Sheep was not only comprised of jewish sheep but with sheep from the entire world.
 

zerinus

Active member
Like I said you have not proved the op not to be true. Jn 1:29 is a world that has no sin charged to it.
That is the meaning that you want to read into it. "Taking away the sins of the world" does not mean unconditionally. That is what you want to read into it, but the rest of the Bible speaks against that interpretation. I gave you the relevant verses which you are ignoring.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Like I said you have not proved the op not to be true. Jn 1:29 is a world that has no sin charged to it.
You said it but proved nothing

You have not examined John's use of the term world

John 12:47–48 (KJV 1900)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Here the term world includes those who do not believe and will be judged on the last day

1 John 5:19 (LEB)
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

The church lies under the power of the evil one ?

Even

John 3:16–18 (KJV 1900)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Christ came to not condemn the church but to save the church ?

It makes no sense

Other than that it can be seen there are those who will be condemned and those who will not be condemned in the world of men but not in the church
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
That is the meaning that you want to read into it. "Taking away the sins of the world" does not mean unconditionally. That is what you want to read into it, but the rest of the Bible speaks against that interpretation. I gave you the relevant verses which you are ignoring.
That's the meaning it is. Jn 1:29 is a world that has no sin charged to it. That's the Church blameless before God
 

zerinus

Active member
Yes it does. The Church world of the Sheep was not only comprised of jewish sheep but with sheep from the entire world.
Denials alone does not help your case. Address the biblical refutations I gave you, or your argument is lost, whether you like it or not.
 
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