Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian (reasons 1-4)

Icyspark

Member
1. Sabbath as a Memorial
Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

One of the reasons Jesus gives for regularly observing His Sabbath is in reference to the singular monumental event in this world's history—its creation. The Sabbath is a weekly reminder that Jesus created this Earth (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-17). It is a day to rest from our works just as Jesus rested from His (Hebrews 4:7-10). It is to this very fact of being the Creator that Jesus appeals to over and over in the Scriptures as validation for His claim to being the one and only true God (1 Chronicles 16:23-27; 2 Kings 19:15; 2 Chronicles 2:12; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 33:6; 96:5; 102:25-27; 115:15; 121:2; Isaiah 37:16; 40:20; 45:18; Jeremiah 10:12; 27:5; 32:17; 33:2, 3; 51:15; Jonah 1:9; Job 26:7; Acts 4:24; 14:15; 17:24; Revelation 14:7).

Psalm 111:2-4
Great are the works of the LORD; they are pondered by all who delight in them. Glorious and majestic are his deeds, and his righteousness endures forever. He has caused his wonders to be remembered; the LORD is gracious and compassionate.

If Jesus says to "Remember the Sabbath," and this remembering is directly connected to the "wonders" of His creation, why is it that people find this something they wish to forget? If one were to develop a hierarchy of the most important events in human history would not the act of creation rank toward the very top? Aside from the life, death and resurrection of the Creator, what other event do you suppose would be more worthy of remembering? Interestingly, even though Jesus nor His disciples ever hinted at any regularly repeating recognition for His resurrection, there are some who insist that we honor Sunday as a resurrection memorial. So while we have no divine command for a weekly remembering of the resurrection (making it a tradition of men), we likewise have no command overturning the weekly remembering of the creation. About this Jesus asks, "Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

2. A Day for Our Benefit
Isaiah 58:13-14
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” The mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Through His prophet Isaiah, Jesus portrays His holy day as something to delight in. If Jesus says to delight in His Sabbath I'm certain that there must be a blessing to be obtained by observing the day He blessed.

Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (444 anthropos; human being), not man for the Sabbath.

Not only is the Sabbath affirmed as something to "delight" in, but Jesus Himself takes the opportunity to make it clear that when He made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation it was made for the benefit of all humanity. The word for man in this text is "anthropos" which means people. Thus the Sabbath is for men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slaves and those who are free. All humanity can delight in the benefits of having a day off to remember their Creator and to rest from their own works.

3. Jesus Kept the Sabbath
Luke 4:16
[Jesus] went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read.

It was Jesus's regular practice to assemble together with other believers on the Sabbath day. Leviticus 23:3 says that the Sabbath is "a day of sacred assembly." You can certainly worship God on all days of the week, but the Sabbath is the day Jesus set aside for worshipping with other believers in a corporate setting. It is a day set apart—a "holy day"—on which holy people are to rest from their own works and be blessed on the day that Jesus blessed.

1 Peter 2:21
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

Jesus is our example in all things and following the things He did should not give anyone cause for concern. On the contrary, it is in doing those things which Jesus never did and never told us to do which we should seriously question the safety of such position. Keeping the Sabbath is in keeping with following Jesus's steps.

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.

Again, if we are to "walk as Jesus did" it is a simple thing to ascertain that the example He left was to regularly assemble together with believers on the day He personally blessed and continues to make holy.

4. Disciples Kept the Sabbath After the Cross
Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Because Jesus never intended to put an end to the regular seven day cycle He set in motion for humanity's (anthropos) benefit and "delight," Jesus never informed them that it was no longer necessary to observe the Sabbath after His death. This is confirmed by the fact that His closest followers—those who went out of their way to see to His burial preparations—still "rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." If Jesus did not intend for the Sabbath to be included in His new covenant then He needed to add this to His will before He died. After the death of the Testator nothing can be added or subtracted from that person's will (see Hebrews 9:16-17).

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
 

DrPatti

New member
I am a bit bored so I will address this post, point by point. Not that you will read or acknowledge, but just for the sake of lurkers who might be confused by the diatribe.

Icy wrote: One of the reasons Jesus gives for regularly observing His Sabbath is in reference to the singular monumental event in this world's history—its creation. The Sabbath is a weekly reminder that Jesus created this Earth (John 1:3...


Reader, please note that SDAs consistently confuse and confound the sabbath with the LORD of the sabbath. John 1 is NOT about the sabbath--does not even mention it. What it is about is the Eternal Word of God, the One Who preexisted the sabbath and all creation. In fact, not ony did He prexist it, HE is the One who created all things. JESUS is the One John is uplifting, NOT the sabbath--as shown by the deafening lack of mention of the sabbath anywhere in the chapter.

Colossians 1:15-17


Please notice as well, dear friends, is how loath SDA apologists are to actually QUOTE Scripture. The reason for this is obvious: The cited verses rarely offer the support that SDA apologists try to wrest from them.

Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

SDA apologists also seem to wish to hoodwink those who either do not know the Scriptures. or who lack the curiosity or the intellectual integrity to actually follow through and READ the passages cited, IN CONTEXT. Please note that, once again, those verses say nothing about the sabbath, nor about any command to observe said day. Once again, instead of upholding their sabbath, this passage upholds the Lordship of Jesus Christ, our Creator and Savior, and affirms the completeness and thoroughness of His sacrifice for our salvation.

It is a day to rest from our works just as Jesus rested from His (Hebrews 4:7-10).

Of course, any serious student of the Scriptures knows that Hebrews 4 is not about the sabbath. In fact, the "weekly sabbath" is never even mentioned in this chapter (which should never be "exegeted" without the preceding chapter). What is mentioned is the seventh day of creation week. THAT day; not every seventh day in perpetuity. You have to do a lot of doctoring to the passage to claim it is about the weekly sabbath.

4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”

This is a singular day. It is a singular event. Not only is it a singular event, but it is a final event. God did not resume His work of creating the world on the day after the "seventh day" of creation week. His Rest was not weekly; it was once and for all. He was done. He was finished.

3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.


Please notice verse 3:
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.

Finished.
Since the creation of the world. DONE!

4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.”


God set a day, and called it "today." Today is the day of salvation! Today we are called upon to believe in Christ and enter into His Rest, the rest from all of our lack of faith in His Promises that His grace is sufficient; that He will save us to the uttermost.

Not only is the sabbath not the subject of this passage, another day is: TODAY.

2 For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3 Now we who have believed enter that rest...

It is all about Christ. It is all about believing in Him. Trusting in His salvation.

....This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his.


God gave us another day: Today. We are to enter God's rest. We are to rest just as He did. How did He rest from His works? Permanently! He did not resume His work of creation on the "eighth day." He was done. He did not begin His work again every seven days. He did not rest only one day out of seven.

Nowhere in this passage does mention the weekly sabbath. Nowhere does it say that "It is a day to rest from our works just as Jesus rested from His." That day is today. Every day is today. So we are to rest perpetually in the saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

To be continued....
 

DrPatti

New member
Icy then quotes:

Psalm 111:2-4
Great are the works of the LORD; they are pondered by all who delight in them. Glorious and majestic are his deeds, and his righteousness endures forever. He has caused his wonders to be remembered; the LORD is gracious and compassionate.


If Jesus says to "Remember the Sabbath," and this remembering is directly connected to the "wonders" of His creation, why is it that people find this something they wish to forget?

I am obviously missing something here: How the verses above refer to the sabbath in any way, even indirectly. Once again--and this seems to be the MO for SDA apologists--he takes a verse that speaks of the wonders of our Lord and tries to superimpose upon them the works of sinful humans to "rest" one day out of every seven. Read that passage again:

1. Great are the works of the Lord.
2. Glorious and majestic are His deeds.
3. His righteousness endures forever.
4. He has caused His wonders to be remembered. (Where is the sabbath ever referred to in Scripture as one of "His wonders"?)

What are "His wonders" that are being referred to specifically in this passage?

5. The Lord is gracious and compassionate. His love, His mercy, His grace to undeserving sinners.

If one were to develop a hierarchy of the most important events in human history would not the act of creation rank toward the very top?

Many (if not most) Christians would rank Christ's amazing work of salvation at the top.

Aside from the life, death and resurrection of the Creator, what other event do you suppose would be more worthy of remembering?

Notice how easily the doing and dying of Christ are so easily brushed aside.

Interestingly, even though Jesus nor His disciples ever hinted at any regularly repeating recognition for His resurrection, there are some who insist that we honor Sunday as a resurrection memorial.

There are some things people need to realize about SDAism before they discuss their beliefs with them. One of the most basic is the idea that most Christians believe in Sunday sacredness in the same way that SDAs believe in Saturday sacredness. SDA apologists are constantly jousting at this theological windmill. They really believe that one day all Christians will unite around Sunday sacredness and persecute all of the SDAs who "keep" the sabbath. This is so endemic to the SDA mentality, that it is impossible to understand the SDA obsession with Saturday and hatred for Sunday without it. The most basic and complete answer to this argument is that Christianity is not about observing "a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." It is not about observe either Saturday or Sunday. That is not and has never been an issue for believers. Never. It is not about what believers do, that is "observing" the sabbath once a week; it is about what God has done for us in Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.


So while we have no divine command for a weekly remembering of the resurrection (making it a tradition of men), we likewise have no command overturning the weekly remembering of the creation.

More assumptions about Scripture. Allow me to reiterate:

1. No one (that I have seen on here) is advocating a divine command to observe Sunday. In fact, most Christians do not "observe" Sunday; they merely assemble on Sunday to praise and worship the Savior.

2. It is just as valid a point here (if we are going to accept the straw man argument of the original poster) that there is no divine command that we must not assemble on Sunday to corporately praise and worship the Savior. And, if the truth be known, SDAs are actually in violation of many sabbath laws of Exodus by their "sabbath" habits. The argument of the SDA apologists that Christians cannot assemble on Sunday is totally moot. It is just blowing smoke to try and blur the facts and make the sabbatarian argument seem more plausible.

About this Jesus asks, "Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

I don't suppose it ever occurred to you to discover what Jesus was talking about when He said that?
Hint: It was not about Saturday or Sunday "observance," either one.
 
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DrPatti

New member
Icy's point 2:

2. A Day for Our Benefit

Isaiah 58:13-14
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” The mouth of the LORD has spoken.

Through His prophet Isaiah, Jesus portrays His holy day as something to delight in. If Jesus says to delight in His Sabbath I'm certain that there must be a blessing to be obtained by observing the day He blessed.


The problem is that no one, NO ONE, "keeps their feet from breaking the sabbath." It is impossible for sinful humans to keep anything holy, let alone 24 straight hours once every seven days. SDAs don't even realize that they worship the tool of their own destruction. Of all the commandments, the Fourth is the most difficult (impossible?) for sinful humans to "keep." It is not enough to give lip service to sabbath "keeping." One must:

1. Not do your own pleasure.

2. Not speak your own words.
3. Not go your own ways.
4. Not speaking "idle words." And, lest we forget:
5. Keep the sabbath holy.

How much fun it was after church every Saturday to linger on the front lawn of the church and visit with our friends! How many times I remember someone saying, "Oh, you know I have something to tell you, but it had better wait until after the sabbath." Don't you think that was already a violation of the sabbath? Or is it OK to think of things and tell someone else that they weren't "sabbathy" things and you would have to talk to them later? How about "idle words"? How many "idle words" do you hear in the SDA churchyard before and after church?

Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (444 anthropos; human being), not man for the Sabbath.


This is inevitable. The invariable (mis)use of this prooftext. Jesus was talking to whom? A bunch of Sunday observers? A crowd of Gentiles? No. He was speaking to sabbatarians. Do they really think that the sabbatarian Jews needed to be convinced that the sabbath was important? What was the point Jesus was trying to make to these sabbath-observing Jews? Could it possibly be the concluding statement that man was not made for the sabbath? That man was not put on this earth to be bound up by so many social and legal (as in the Law) restraints one day a week? Man was not made for the sabbath. The sabbath was for man's benefit; not for his imprisonment 24 hours a week.

Not only is the Sabbath affirmed as something to "delight" in, but Jesus Himself takes the opportunity to make it clear that when He made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation it was made for the benefit of all humanity.

Another huge leap to conclusions that cannot be proven from Scripture. The conclusion that Jesus "made" the sabbath on the seventh day of creation week is a huge assumption. It cannot be supported from Scripture, because the evidence is simply not there. Neither does the passage above state that the sabbath was made "for the benefit of all humanity." That is another leap of conjecture. But SDAs are so used to this jargon that no one ever stops to question it. What the verse says is that the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath. The passage also says that Jesus is Lord of the sabbath. The sabbath is not Lord over Him.

The word for man in this text is "anthropos" which means people. Thus the Sabbath is for men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slaves and those who are free.

More unwarranted addition to the Scriptures.

All humanity can delight in the benefits of having a day off to remember their Creator and to rest from their own works.

Do you need to take off 24 hours a week to remember that Christ created you? If so, then go for it.
As far as "resting" is concerned, that is completely up to the interpretation and desire of each individual sabbatarian. If you try to pin a dozen SDAs down on exactly what we are supposed to do and not do on the sabbath, you will get at least 10 different responses. And you will get the most ridiculous dichotomies of what is and is not allowed. Such as it is OK to take a "nature hike" (regardless of the original command that no one should leave his/her tent on the sabbath), but it is not OK to mow the lawn. It is OK to wade, but not to swim. It is OK to give a payment card for your sabbath meals at an SDA venue, but it is not OK to pay cash for them. It is OK to go canoing, but not skiing. And the rather arbitrary list goes on and on.

And at the foundation of all this is most SDAs forget that the commandment actually says to keep the sabbath holy. Unholy, sinful people cannot keep anything holy. There is only One Who is holy. So the Fourth Commandment condemns us before we even start.

I have to conclude that SDA sabbatarianism is not about Biblical sabbath observance--following all of the Scriptural guidelines given--but merely about lip service. If I recanted today and told everyone I was going to go back to SDAism, all SDAs would rejoice that I had returned to "the truth" even though I haven't even attempted to "keep" my first sabbath yet. It's all about lip service; about affirming the necessity to "keep" the sabbath (observe Saturday) and not about truly doing all that the Scripture requires for sabbath observance.
 

DrPatti

New member
Icy wrote:

3. Jesus Kept the Sabbath

Luke 4:16
[Jesus] went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read.


It was Jesus's regular practice to assemble together with other believers on the Sabbath day.

Whoa! Hold the presses! There is so much wrong with that statement, I don't know where to start. I suppose it is the mentality behind the statement that disturbs me the most: That Jesus was merely a believer that assembled with "other believers" on the sabbath. I am willing to bet he doesn't even realize how he has demeaned the Lord of the sabbath, and relegated Him to an equality with "other believers." Calling Jesus a "believer" makes Him no different than sinful humans who are saved by believing in Him. In Whom did He believe? In Himself? Faith is believing in things unseen. What had Christ not "seen"? Was He required to believe in Himself? To what end? To say that He "assembled with other believers" is to completely negate the eternal existence and the Creator-ship of our Lord. Never to the Scriptures say that Jesus went to the synagogue to "assemble with other believers." Do you know why He did? To reveal Himself, and how HE was the Fulfillment of the "law and the prophets"--basically the whole Old Testament.

The rest of the story. The part that SDAs do not care for you to know. This is why they habitually deal only with soundbites and snippets of Scripture rather than whole passages and context:

Luke 4:16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them,
“Today scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

He did not go there to "assemble with other believers," but to proclaim Himself as God's Messiah! SDAs cannot seem to see any farther than their own sinful existence. They relegate Christ to a mere "believer," just like themselves. They claim He went to the synagogue to "assemble" rather than to proclaim His Divine Mission to save sinners who believe in Him.

I have often said, and I have found it to often be the case that sabbatarians have a problem with the full, undisputed, eternal Divinity of Christ. Instead, like the Catholics, they deal with Him as a human (even, in many cases, as a human with sinful tendencies) rather than as God Incarnate.* In this way, Christ, to them, becomes primarily an Example to us--someone who came to show us how we could overcome our sinful flesh--instead of the Holy One Who came to save us, fully, completely, thoroughly, and once-for-all. In my experience, sabbatarians replace their focus on Our Lord Jesus Christ with their obsession to what they do for 24 hours once a week. In this sense their "sabbath" becomes an idol.

___________

*Unlike the Catholics, though, SDAs do not see Jesus as "that Holy Thing," One who was absolutely sinless with no sinful propensities. The way Catholics get around Christ being human is to give Him a perfect mother, one who was "immaculately conceived." But still, their focus is on the humanity of Christ and not His Divinity. They focus on His human suffering on the cross rather than His work of Atonement for the sins of the world. The rationale seems to be that they must keep Christ primarily human so that sinful humans can "relate" to Him. So they can say that Christ came to show us that we can overcome just as He overcame. And they can keep their legalistic thumbs on their constituents. That is why, I believe, they leave their Christ hanging on the cross rather than triumphing over death.
 
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DrPatti

New member
It was Jesus's regular practice to assemble together with other believers on the Sabbath day. Leviticus 23:3 says that the Sabbath is "a day of sacred assembly."

Once again, picking one's way through the Scriptures. What the passage actually delineates is all of the "sacred assemblies"--the "days, and months and seasons" that Paul mentions several times.

23 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are
my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

And then Moses continues to delineate, not just one day a week, but all of the annual and monthly feasts as well. Why do SDAs choose to uplift only the "weekly sabbath"? The "weekly sabbath" is given no more emphasis in this chapter than the other "festivals." SDAs eternally "pick and choose" their way through the Scriptures.

You can certainly worship God on all days of the week, but


Wow! What a concession! God will "let" us worship him on any day! Followed by the eternal "Big But," a word that virtually nullifies everything that precedes it. Are you getting a new insight into the SDA mentality? So obsessed are they with "assembling" to worship God on Sunday, that they have to temper even the statement that we "can" worship God on all days of the week. As a Gospel-believer who lives 24/7 in joy and praise of my accomplished salvation in Jesus Christ, this kind of mentality simply boggles my mind. As if, instead of praise and worship naturally flowing from believers on every day of the week, we have to have permission from God to worship Him on "all days of the week."

To be continued...
 

DrPatti

New member
the Sabbath is the day Jesus set aside for worshipping with other believers in a corporate setting.

It was not the day. It was one day that was "set aside" for sacred assembly. The very chapter he cited outlines many days, that God set aside for "worshiping...in a corporate setting." SDAs have no problem tossing aside the other days, and yet they cling to this singular day and worship it, making it the "sign" that they are God's "only true remnant" on this planet

It is a day set apart—a "holy day"—on which holy people are to rest from their own works and be blessed on the day that Jesus blessed.

"Holy people"? Please define. Are you "holy"?

1 Peter 2:21
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.


Jesus is our example in all things

Then we are doomed.
If this is true, then we must:
1. Have no sinful tendencies
2. Never sin (too late for that)
3. Walk on water
4. Heal the sick
5. Raise the dead
6. Change water to wine
7. Still storms, etc.

But those are the easy things. We also must:
8. Live a completely sinless life
9. Lay down that life for the salvation of hopeless sinners, and the real biggie:
10. Raise ourselves from the dead. Then:
11. Ascend to heaven, and
12. Seat ourselves at the right hand of God the Father Almighty on the throne of the universe.

If you must do all of that if Jesus is truly or "example in all things." If you fall short on any point, then there is no hope for you. Good luck

and following the things He did should not give anyone cause for concern.

Except for the small detail that you cannot do them.

On the contrary, it is in doing those things which Jesus never did and never told us to do which we should seriously question the safety of such position. Keeping the Sabbath is in keeping with following Jesus's steps.

You are making things up again. Especially when we have explicit Scripture that Jesus broke the sabbath.

John 5:16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

There are those who would say that this statement cannot be taken at face value, because Jesus would be a sinner, guilty of sabbath-breaking and blasphemy. That is because SDA apologists see the very narrow definition of sin as violating the Ten, ignoring the fact Jesus was the Law-giver. And that Jesus gave an instance of how violating the law was not sin. And that He said that He was "Lord of the sabbath." The sabbath was not Lord of Him.

Concerning the blasphemy charge, one only has to ask the question: Was Jesus God? If so, then He was not commiting a sin, but acknowledging the Truth, that He was, indeed, equal to God. He was/is God. Blasphemy would only occur if He had not truly been God.

Was He "Lord of the sabbath"? If so, the the sabbath was whatever He desired/proclaimed it to be.

Looking once again at that last verse: Grammatically there is no possibility for confusion. The coordinating conjunction "not only... but also," joins two true statements. If one of them was not true, then it would negate both of them. Was Jesus "calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God"? Yes, He was. Was He also breaking the sabbath? Yes, He was.

To be continued...
 
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DrPatti

New member
Icy wrote:
Jesus is our example in all things and following the things He did should not give anyone cause for concern. On the contrary, it is in doing those things which Jesus never did and never told us to do which we should seriously question the safety of such position.

Huh?

Keeping the Sabbath is in keeping with following Jesus's steps.

Total fabrication. If Jesus had wanted this to be clearly stated, He could very well have said, "Another commandment I give to you, that you keep the sabbath as I have done." He never stated this. Neither did any other New Testament author. You have no right to make that declaration for yourself.

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.


And how did Jesus "walk"? Please give us specific Scriptural documentation here.

Again, if we are to "walk as Jesus did" it is a simple thing to ascertain that the example He left was to regularly assemble together with believers on the day He personally blessed and continues to make holy.

It is simple fabrication. Which it takes so many words and much "explanation" to try and prop up your argument.

Let me be clear here: It is not about the sabbath. It is not about one day being better than others. It is not about observing any "special" days or regarding one day as holier than others.


Col 2:

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[d] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come;
the reality, however, is found in Christ
.

It is about Jesus, our crucified and risen Savior. Our Substitute and Surety The Fulfillment of all of the law and the prophets. Our sacrifice, forgiveness, reconcilation to God. Our Peace, our Hope, our Assurance. Our Acceptance by an absolutely holy God in Christ. Our Advocate and Lord and King. It is all about HIM. There is no salvation (nor loss of salvation) in the observance of days; there is salvation only in Christ. The very best thing we can do on this earth is to trust in the One Who has accomplished our full salvation, once for all by the offering of Himself. The question is not (never has been; never will be) whether or not you "observe" Saturday; the question is, "Was the Lamb worthy?" If so, we can truly rest, knowing that Christ has accomplished everything necessary for our complete eternal salvation. If not, then we have no hope, so you might as well "go out" and do all of those things you have been depriving yourself of, thinking that you were working out your salvation.
 

DrPatti

New member
Icy wrote:

4. Disciples Kept the Sabbath After the Cross

Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.


This is your evidence that "disciples kept the sabbath after the cross"? The next day "after the cross"? While Christ (as far as they knew) was dead and in the tomb? All that proves, at least to me, was that their sabbath rituals were more important to them than the Lord of the sabbath. They left the Creator of the universe unattended in order to proceed with the rituals that--if they only realized--foretold and foreshadowed the very One in their presence. It could be that they wished not to attract attention to themselves by "breaking" the sabbath to tend to our Lord. Certainly, had they actually listened to His words, they would have known that it is lawful to do good on the sabbath. Surely, it was "good" to tend to the needs of their Master!

That, of course, is speculation on my part, but using this singular verse to "prove" that the disciples kept the sabbath after the cross (Less than 12 hours after the cross!) is extremely lame and non-conclusive.

Because Jesus never intended to put an end to the regular seven day cycle

Funny how SDAs presume to be privy to God's "intentions." Did Jesus ever say anything about the "regular seven day cycle"? Is the "regular seven day cycle" ever mentioned as something to be exalted and maintained? Where do you get this stuff?

He set in motion for humanity's (anthropos) benefit and "delight," Jesus never informed them that it was no longer necessary to observe the Sabbath after His death.

Again, you are arguing from silence. Simply because something is not stated does not give one the right to assume it is so. There was no command for the discipoles to wear clothes to "sacred assemblies" either. Does that give someone the right to claim that we shouldn't do that? Your argument makes as much sense and has as much objective support as that.

You forget, also, that neither did He command His believers to impose the law on the Gentiles.

This is confirmed by the fact that His closest followers—those who went out of their way to see to His burial preparations—still "rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment."

That confirms nothing except exactly what it says: That they went about their sabbath rituals a few hours after Jesus' death.

If Jesus did not intend for the Sabbath to be included in His new covenant then He needed to add this to His will before He died.

Another non sequitir? Did Jesus also "intend" for us to sacrifice on the sabbath? To observe the rituals of cleanliness? To follow all of the rituals of Passover? To use our tithes to buy "strong drink"? Not to leave our dwellings on the sabbath? To observe every annual feast? Why do SDAs automatically exempt everything from the "Old Covenant" except for their (interpretation of) observing the sabbath?

After the death of the Testator nothing can be added or subtracted from that person's will (see Hebrews 9:16-17).

Yes. Let's see that. In context.

The Blood of Christ

11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!

15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of
a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—
now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one;

he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Once again, dear SDA apologist, you cannot see the Forest for the trees. It is all about Jesus. Not about a day--any day. The question is, always has been, "What will you do with this Man?" Not (never has been) Saturday vs. Sunday, but faith vs. unbelief. Those who trust in the great salvation won by our Lord Jesus Christ vs. those who do not see Christ as being "enough," and attempt to add their own sinful works, their feeble and deluded "filthy rags" attempts at keeping a day holy, to the perfect, complete, unrepeatable, once-for-all saving work of Jesus Christ.
 
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