Tetragram - Jehovah! or Yahweh (Jupiter)

Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Well-known member
Somehow I got Motyers confused with Thayer. Apologies.

Here you can see how Jeho- shows theophoric names, this came from a chart done years back by Scott Jones.

1636733480206.png
 
Bob Carabbio

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Steven Avery said:
Responding to this cryptic attack will open up an interesting discussion.
We had wonderful studies with the poster from Israel, Jameson, on the earlier CARM.

The first question is simple. Jehovah (or Yehovah) or Yahweh.
One is right, one is a counterfeit.

Brian felt that my rejection of Yahweh as a pagan deity (Yahweh=Jupiter) would be blasphemy :).
The King James Bible has the proper Jehovah, in the Reformation tradition.

Nehemia Gordon has added a lot to this discussion the last two decades. In the earlier discussions Jameson and Nehemia were interacting, as I passed some issues back and forth.

A very fun-damental question.

Yours in Jesus name,
Steven
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WHich "Definitive"/"Authoritative" Answer would You like.

My Favorite is Yaohu-Ul.
 
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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Steven Avery,
Steven Avery said:
Somehow I got Motyers confused with Thayer. Apologies.
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You have yet to answer both the recent and "stale" scholarship.
Steven Avery said:
Here you can see how Jeho- shows theophoric names, this came from a chart done years back by Scott Jones.
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This is consistent with the Masoretic vowel markings corresponding to Strong's Concordance #3068, but does not answer the "stale" question concerning both #3068 and #3069. Perhaps we could both research other names ending with "iah", possibly "yah", such as Isaiah. I have never seen this written as Isajeh. Also consider NT Isaias.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Well-known member
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Steven Avery,

You have yet to answer both the recent and "stale" scholarship.

This is consistent with the Masoretic vowel markings corresponding to Strong's Concordance #3068, but does not answer the "stale" question concerning both #3068 and #3069. Perhaps we could both research other names ending with "iah", possibly "yah", such as Isaiah. I have never seen this written as Isajeh. Also consider NT Isaias.

Kind regards
Trevor
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The other 20+ Masoretic theophoric names have nothing at all to do with the qere/ketiv question, so they show the Hebrew of the name of God begins with Jeho-.

The suffix names are of little import, since Yah is the shortened, poetic form of the name.
 
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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Steven Avery,
Steven Avery said:
There are no theophoric names Yah….
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I understand Isaiah is the Salvation of Yah, an abbreviation of the Salvation of Yahweh. Consider also Uzziah, strengthened by Yah.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Well-known member
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Steven Avery,

I understand Isaiah is the Salvation of Yah, an abbreviation of the Salvation of Yahweh. Consider also Uzziah, strengthened by Yah.

Kind regards
Trevor
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Yah is the poetic short form of Yehovah — Y….ah.

There is nothing supporting “Yahweh” in the Hebrew Bible.

See the chart above.
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Well-known member
For those who want to study a bit Nehemia Gordon's savvy in Hebrew and the Masoretic Text, here are two papers that I just bumped into online.

Blotting Out the Name
Scribal Methods of Erasing the Tetragrammaton in Medieval Hebrew Bible Manuscripts, Part 1
In: Textus
Author: Nehemia Gordon
Online Publication Date: 27 Feb 2020
https://brill.com/view/journals/text/29/1/article-p8_2.xml

====================================================

Blotting Out the Name
Scribal Methods of Erasing the Tetragrammaton in Medieval Hebrew Bible Manuscripts, Part 2
In: Textus
Author: Nehemia Gordon
https://brill.com/view/journals/text/29/2/article-p111_1.xml

====================================================

There is more on Researchgate.
 
Steven Avery

Steven Avery

Well-known member
brianrw said:
and your blasphemy towards the name of God
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Now that he may be better informed, I wonder if brianrw still wants to throw out the railing accusation of blasphemy simply for accepting the historic Jehovah, supported by the Reformation Christians and solid scholarship today. And he would be attacking the rejection of the modern creepy alternative Yahweh.

Does brianrw really have a conviction in favor of Yahweh? He says he supports the Authorized Version, which has Jehovah, so there is a contradiction in his positions.
 
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Lee Magee

Member
John and Joseph are both pronounced with the 'o' and in antiquities of the Jews, written by Josephus, he writes Joseph (son of Jacob) as Ἰώσηπος, a transliteration of יהוסף. "ω" is a combination of הו. There is no ω in Ἰησοῦς because its a transliteration of ישוע and "η" is a combination of הי because ישוע is a contraction of יהישע with a prosthetic ו i.e. יה ישע > ιε ισο > ιησο

John or Ἰωάννης (יוחנן) means Ζεύς ἐγέννησε i.e. Διογένης "Diogenes"

cf. Διῶν יהוה

The Septuagint, Josephus and New Testament are older then Hebrew diacritics and the oddly sounding Yahweh and Jehovah.
 
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Anthony

Well-known member
Steven Avery said:
There are about 20 Theophoric names that begin with Jeho-. They are not a term of derision.
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Yahu! Many of the Kings of Israel have their names ending as either Yah or Yahu.

Example:

H274​

Original: אחזיהוּ אחזיה

Transliteration: 'ăchazyâh 'ăchazyâhû

Phonetic: akh-az-yaw'

BDB Definition: Ahaziah = " Jehovah (Yahu) holds (possesses)"

So correct rendering would be either Yahovah or Yahuah.

The difference is the Masoretic vowel pointing.

Yahweh is pretty modern and the so called Jews of today can't be trusted as they were in dispersion until 1948 .

The original Hebrew writings were without any vowels until about 9th or 10th century. Earlier some letters of Hebrew themselves were used as vowels.

There is no 'o', 'w' letters in Hebrew but it's the later vowel pointing made it so.
 
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Anthony

Well-known member
Steven Avery said:
Somehow I got Motyers confused with Thayer. Apologies.

Here you can see how Jeho- shows theophoric names, this came from a chart done years back by Scott Jones.

1636733480206.png
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Fine if you replace 'J' with an 'Yod'. Even our English didn't have letter 'J' before some six centuries back.
 
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Lee Magee

Member
י is not a vowel, so ישוע would not be Iesus and Iota is also a vowel even though ישוע is written Ἰησοῦς, this is because "י" exchanges with the spīritus lēnis.

Since י is not a vowel, then its Greek counterpart may have a consonant in its place.

δικτυόομαι יקש ; to be caught in a net
δικτυωτός יקוש ; made in net-fashion (adj.)
δίκτυον מוקש ; fishing-net or hunting-net
κόφινος איפה ; Basket
κάσις אח ; brother
 
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Semmelweis Reflex

Semmelweis Reflex

Active member
Steven Avery said:
The first question is simple. Jehovah (or Yehovah) or Yahweh.
One is right, one is a counterfeit.
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No. Yahweh is an estimation of an ancient Hebrew transliteration and Jehovah is the English translation. Names are always translated, never transliterated. So which is correct in Italian - Geova; or in Awabakal - Yehóa; or in Bugotu - Jihova; or in Cantonese - Yehwowah; or in Danish - Jehova; or in Fijian - Jiova; or in Futuna - Ihova; or in German - Jehova?

Biblical Hebrew wasn't written with vowels; only consonants. When reading the text, they would use the appropriate vowels. So, no one can say for certain what those vowels were. Many Hebrew scholars think that Yahweh is more accurate. It isn't. When speaking or writing English Yirmeyah or Yeshua are translated to Jeremiah and Jesus. Considering the aforementioned consonants no one knows for sure. The Jews, like Jesus and the writers of the Christian Greek scripture were multilingual, so they may have referred to Jesus in the Greek as Iesous or more likely the Aramaic Yesua (Yēšūă').
 
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Lee Magee

Member
Ancient Greek is written with vowels, so use them instead, for most of the vocabulary in biblical Hebrew have Greek counterparts.

πιστόν (pistón) → בטחון = בטחה (bitkhón) i.e בִּטְחוֹן
γλάγος (glágos) = γάλα (gála) → חלב (hálab)
 
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