The abomination of desolation

Tonyg

Member
Brief non definitive discussion of the plural/singular.

 

Tonyg

Member
and events that will shortly occur in these "latter days".
Do you know the sources of this term, latter days.?

*[[Num 24:14/KJVLite]]* And now, behold, I go unto my people: come therefore, and I will advertise thee what this people shall do to thy people in the latter days.

*[[Deu 4:30/KJVLite]]* When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

*[[Deu 31:29/KJVLite]]* For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

*[[Jer 23:20/KJVLite]]* The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

*[[Jer 30:24/KJVLite]]* The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.

*[[Jer 48:47/KJVLite]]* Yet will I bring again the captivity of Moab in the latter days, saith the LORD. Thus far is the judgment of Moab.

*[[Jer 49:39/KJVLite]]* But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the LORD.

*[[Eze 38:8/KJVLite]]* After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

*[[Eze 38:16/KJVLite]]* And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

*[[Dan 2:28/KJVLite]]* But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

*[[Dan 10:14/KJVLite]]* Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

*[[Hos 3:5/KJVLite]]* Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

*[[Num 24:20/KJVLite]]* And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.

*[[Deu 8:16/KJVLite]]* Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end;

*[[Deu 32:29/KJVLite]]* O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!

*[[Isa 41:22/KJVLite]]* Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

*[[Gen 49:1/KJVLite]]* And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

*[[Isa 2:2/KJVLite]]* And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

*[[Mic 4:1/KJVLite]]* But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

*[[Dan 8:17/KJVLite]]* So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

*[[Dan 8:19/KJVLite]]* And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

*[[Dan 11:13/KJVLite]]* For the king of the north shall return, and shall set forth a multitude greater than the former, and shall certainly come after certain years with a great army and with much riches.

*[[Dan 11:35/KJVLite]]* And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

*[[Dan 11:40/KJVLite]]* And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

*[[Dan 12:4/KJVLite]]* But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

*[[Dan 12:9/KJVLite]]* And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
 

Tonyg

Member
*[[1Co 10:11/KJVLite]]* Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

*[[Heb 9:26/KJVLite]]* For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
All uses in Revelation 20 are Greek 5507. Chilioi, In strongs it's noted as plural. Our word millennia.

Other places where Chiliad or chilias (5505) is used it's noted as a singular 1000, our word millenium.

I don't know of any translations that distinguish between the two but that doesn't mean that there isn't a distinction and a purpose for the different word usage
I don't know where you get your information but my sources indicate that all six uses of "thousand" in Revelation 20 is Greek chilia. I don't know what your point is but it appears to me that you're basing it on inaccurate information
 

Tonyg

Member
I don't know where you get your information but my sources indicate that all six uses of "thousand" in Revelation 20 is Greek chilia. I don't know what your point is but it appears to me that you're basing it on inaccurate information
Strongs concordance with scripture references as used in bible sword software.!

It's the plural (5507) that is used in all cases of rev 20.
 
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Arkycharlie

Active member
Greetings again Archycharlie,

Well, "modern warfare" or the terms used in Ezekiel 38-39 would be even less feasible at the end of the 1000 years. Ezekiel 38-39 do not in any way describe the Land and the people of Israel towards the end of the 1000 years. The Land will not be desolate during the 1000 years and the children of Israel will not have been recently regathered out of the nations.

Kind regards
Trevor
I wrote "There's NOTHING in the text of Ezekiel 38-39 describing this invasion that makes the remotest sense in terms of modern warfare."

You obviously misunderstood my point. I interpret Ezekiel 38-39 literally. When it plainly states that the combatants are riding horses and using ancient weapons, I take it literally. Would you think that invaders so equipped today could defeat Israel (with a nuclear arsenal) today? That was my point.
 

Tonyg

Member
Strongs concordance with scripture references as used in bible sword software.!

It's the plural (5507) that is used in all cases of rev 20.
In both byz and tr the Greek is χίλια. That is strongs # 5507 which is plural for the singular version of strongs# 5505.

So a question to begin contemplation would be why is it plural?

Just a question to provoke thought and meditation.
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
Greetings again Archycharlie,

Yes, a fair bit of assertion and bluff, but no real consideration of what Ezekiel 38-39 and other passages actually say and teach. Perhaps you could share other aspects of why you assert your conclusion. Are you a SDA and believe in the burning and the desolation of the earth for the 1000 years, and therefore you cannot accept the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years and events around the nation of Israel?.

Kind regards
Trevor
I wrote: "I am asserting that this (Ezek. 38-39) is the Day of the LORD which occurs at the end of the MK. Do you dispute my assertion that the DOL is postmillennial?"

I assure you, when the subject is eschatology, I never bluff! And no, I am not SDA. My preference is nondenominational. Preferably premil and pretrib.

Since you choose not to reveal your opinion on the timing of the DOL, I will give you a couple of OT passage that I find persuasive in this regard:

Ezekiel 36:33-36
33 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt.​
34 The desolate land will be cultivated instead of being a desolation in the sight of everyone who passes by.​
35 They will say, ‘This desolate land has become like the garden of Eden; and the waste, desolate and ruined cities are fortified and inhabited.’​
36 Then the nations that are left round about you will know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted that which was desolate; I, the Lord, have spoken and will do it.”​
Joel 2:
1 Blow a trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm on My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble. For the day of the Lord is coming; Surely it is near,
2 A day of darkness and gloom. A day of clouds and thick darkness. As the dawn is spread over the mountains,
So there is a great and mighty people; There has never been anything like it, nor will there be again after it
To the years of many generations.
3 A fire consumes before them and behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them but a desolate wilderness behind them, and nothing at all escapes them.​

Again, I take these passages literally. Can you connect the dots? I certainly can!
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
Strongs concordance with scripture references as used in bible sword software.!

It's the plural (5507) that is used in all cases of rev 20.
I stand corrected. I was too hasty in my research and discovered that you are correct and it was I who was mistaken. Point to you!
 

TrevorL

Active member
Greetings again Arkycharlie,
I wrote "There's NOTHING in the text of Ezekiel 38-39 describing this invasion that makes the remotest sense in terms of modern warfare."
You obviously misunderstood my point. I interpret Ezekiel 38-39 literally. When it plainly states that the combatants are riding horses and using ancient weapons, I take it literally. Would you think that invaders so equipped today could defeat Israel (with a nuclear arsenal) today? That was my point.
I suggest that the prophets used terms that could be understood to some extent by their contemporaries. The following is similar and does not describe present weapons or agriculture equipment. Neither would they beat one instrument into the other. We also use the expression "guns or butter". Nevertheless I consider that the following is describing the events after the Battle of Armageddon, the events of Ezekiel 38-39.
Isaiah 2:1–4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I wrote: "I am asserting that this (Ezek. 38-39) is the Day of the LORD which occurs at the end of the MK. Do you dispute my assertion that the DOL is postmillennial?"
Yes.

Since you choose not to reveal your opinion on the timing of the DOL, I will give you a couple of OT passage that I find persuasive in this regard:
I already stated that the Day of the lord and the Battle of Armageddon and Ezekiel 38-39 are premillennial.
I also parallel Ezekiel 38 and Joel 3 with Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Daniel 11:40-45, Zechariah 14 and Revelation 16:12-16. All of these overlap each other in some particulars, and all are speaking about events surrounding the return of Jesus and the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Tonyg

Member
I stand corrected. I was too hasty in my research and discovered that you are correct and it was I who was mistaken. Point to you!
Thank you, it's seldom that people make such statements as you just have made. Not a game of who's right and wrong but what's right and wrong.
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
Ezekiel 36:33-36
33 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be inhabited, and the waste places will be rebuilt.​
34 The desolate land will be cultivated instead of being a desolation in the sight of everyone who passes by.​
35 They will say, ‘This desolate land has become like the garden of Eden; and the waste, desolate and ruined cities are fortified and inhabited.’​
36 Then the nations that are left round about you will know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted that which was desolate; I, the Lord, have spoken and will do it.”​
Joel 2:
1 Blow a trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm on My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble. For the day of the Lord is coming; Surely it is near,​
2 A day of darkness and gloom. A day of clouds and thick darkness. As the dawn is spread over the mountains,​
So there is a great and mighty people; There has never been anything like it, nor will there be again after it​
To the years of many generations.​
3 A fire consumes before them and behind them a flame burns. The land is like the garden of Eden before them but a desolate wilderness behind them, and nothing at all escapes them.​

Again, I take these passages literally. Can you connect the dots? I certainly can!
I'm not surprised that this has been ignored. And that's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg! ONLY the LORD is capable of making a land "like the Garden of Eden" and it clearly will not occur until Israel is living securely without walls, gates, or bars in the MK!
 
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