The adoption into Abraham's seed

dberrie2020

Super Member
You pick and choose which New Testament theology you support when it suits your purpose. But mormonism is based on old testament beliefs and practices.

That does not touch these points presented here:

dberrie said---"Just a note here, Magdalena:

Abraham was the origin of the House of Israel:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

IOW--all who come to Christ, become Abraham's seed--and of the House of Israel. The natural house of Israel will be grafted into that tree also--if they will believe. But all must be grafted in--through Jesus Christ--both Jew and Gentile, and all become the seed of Abraham in doing so."

Since when is Galatins3:28-29 "old covenants, old practices, old beliefs"?

Magdalena--that's New Testament theology.

As I stated--you, and the critics here--have precious little in common with the Biblical text.
 
Maggie was making a statement of fact. That is all. And you DO do what she says you do, on here.

Our daughter is from India and we adopted her when she was 9 years old. That made her our daughter. In the eyes of the Law, she had all the rights and privileges that a daughter physically born to us would have had. When we die, she will inherit all that we have. As a natural-born daughter would have. But she is not physically related to us, by DNA. But she doesn't have to be, for her to be our full daughter in the eyes of the Law--because we legally adopted her into our family. She bore our last name (now she bears her husband's last name).

Rom. 4:9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

And:

13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

Now, do we literally become Abe's "seed" as in physically descended from him, which would mean our DNA would be changed....or are we spiritual descendants of Abraham because we are justified by faith JUST AS HE WAS?
 
Abraham was the origin of the House of Israel:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

IOW--all who come to Christ, become Abraham's seed--and of the House of Israel. The natural house of Israel will be grafted into that tree also--if they will believe. But all must be grafted in--through Jesus Christ--both Jew and Gentile, and all become the seed of Abraham in doing so."

Since when is Galatins3:28-29 "old covenants, old practices, old beliefs"?

Magdalena--that's New Testament theology.

As I stated--you, and the critics here--have precious little in common with the Biblical text.
-if they will believe.....that is all that is required.

8 For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

But don't worry...you all run around in your temple in your white robes and get baptized by a bona-fide mormon priest....so, you're OK.☑️
 
Maggie was making a statement of fact. That is all. And you DO do what she says you do, on here.

Our daughter is from India and we adopted her when she was 9 years old. That made her our daughter. In the eyes of the Law, she had all the rights and privileges that a daughter physically born to us would have had. When we die, she will inherit all that we have. As a natural-born daughter would have. But she is not physically related to us, by DNA. But she doesn't have to be, for her to be our full daughter in the eyes of the Law--because we legally adopted her into our family. She bore our last name (now she bears her husband's last name).



And:



Now, do we literally become Abe's "seed" as in physically descended from him, which would mean our DNA would be changed....or are we spiritual descendants of Abraham because we are justified by faith JUST AS HE WAS?

In the adoption--one becomes of the House of Israel--and the seed of Abraham, which was my point to Magdalena:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Which is NT theology.
 
That does not touch these points presented here:

dberrie said---"Just a note here, Magdalena:

Abraham was the origin of the House of Israel:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

IOW--all who come to Christ, become Abraham's seed--and of the House of Israel. The natural house of Israel will be grafted into that tree also--if they will believe. But all must be grafted in--through Jesus Christ--both Jew and Gentile, and all become the seed of Abraham in doing so."

Since when is Galatins3:28-29 "old covenants, old practices, old beliefs"?

Magdalena--that's New Testament theology.

As I stated--you, and the critics here--have precious little in common with the Biblical text.
You get adopted so everyone is the same. No difference between Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female. All one in Christ.

Does that mean you need to build temples, pretend to have the priesthood, practice polygamy, have fake ancient Hebrew scripture, or anything else they did in the Old Testament?

No. Christ came here and brought a new covenant. Two commandments. A focus on taking care of those in need. Compassion as the way of showing love to God and each other. It’s what’s in your heart that matters.
 
In the adoption--one becomes of the House of Israel--and the seed of Abraham, which was my point to Magdalena:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Which is NT theology.
I know what your "point" was, but I was asking you to clarify exactly what you mean. And....once again, you failed to answer my very simple question. What is it with you, dberrie? Is this some "debate" tactic they teach you in the church? Tap dancing around answering our questions? Are they that difficult?

This is what I asked: "Now, do we literally become Abe's "seed" as in physically descended from him, which would mean our DNA would be changed....or are we spiritual descendants of Abraham because we are justified by faith JUST AS HE WAS?"

Please answer this question, so I will know exactly what you mean, so I will not misunderstand you.
 
You get adopted so everyone is the same. No difference between Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female. All one in Christ.

Yes.
Abraham wasn't "Israel".
Paul made it very clera that Abraham predates Israel, he was before the law, and before circumcision, before the priesthood (and before temples).
 
In the adoption--one becomes of the House of Israel--and the seed of Abraham, which was my point to Magdalena:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Which is NT theology.
Example of Old Testament Mormon teachings practice

 
You get adopted so everyone is the same.

Everyone is the same in the fact all are justified to become the seed of Abraham, through Christ.

But not everyone is adopted into the seed of Abraham. There is a difference between those who are adopted--and those who are not.

No difference between Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female. All one in Christ.

How does that supersede the fact all who are adopted become the seed of Abraham--and of the House of Israel?

Does that mean you need to build temples, pretend to have the priesthood, practice polygamy, have fake ancient Hebrew scripture, or anything else they did in the Old Testament?

No. Christ came here and brought a new covenant. Two commandments. A focus on taking care of those in need. Compassion as the way of showing love to God and each other. It’s what’s in your heart that matters.

There's an old saying--the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Could you explain for us how the two great commandments doesn't include these commandments?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

You might want to relay your concerns to Jesus Christ--as it was Him who testified to this truth?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


To love God was one of the two great commandments?
 
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I know what your "point" was, but I was asking you to clarify exactly what you mean.

I mean just what I stated--

dberrie stated---"In the adoption--one becomes of the House of Israel--and the seed of Abraham, which was my point to Magdalena:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Which is NT theology."

And....once again, you failed to answer my very simple question. What is it with you, dberrie? Is this some "debate" tactic they teach you in the church? Tap dancing around answering our questions? Are they that difficult?

This is what I asked: "Now, do we literally become Abe's "seed" as in physically descended from him,

Because all who come unto Christ--are adopted into His lineage--as Christ came through the Abrahamic lineage:

Hebrews 2:11-16---King James Version
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

which would mean our DNA would be changed....

If that's what you believe--then you are entitled to believe whatever you will.

The scriptures testify, in the flesh--we become the seed of Abraham, and of the House of Israel--through Jesus Christ.

or are we spiritual descendants of Abraham because we are justified by faith JUST AS HE WAS?"

Since we are made partakers of the promises in the flesh--then why wouldn't it be both physical and spiritual seed of Abraham?
 
Yes. Abraham wasn't "Israel".

Those who are adopted become the seed of Abraham--and of the House of Israel.

Since all have to come through Christ to enjoin those blessings--and Christ came through the Abrahamic lineage--then that lineage covers both Abraham and the House of Israel--through Christ.

Hebrews 2:11-16---King James Version
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
 
-if they will believe.....that is all that is required.

Is that a fact, Crow?

Galatians 3:26-29---King James Version
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
Is that a fact, Crow?

Galatians 3:26-29---King James Version
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believed will not perish, but have eternal life."

But DO note vs. 26 in your quote: "for ye are ALL children of God BY FAITH in Christ Jesus."


Jesus does command baptism and no one should despise this means of grace for the forgiveness of sins, but it is not absolutely necessary for eternal life, if one is unable to be baptized, or prevented from being baptized.

Take Cornelius and his family and friends....were they saved AFTER they received the HS, enabling them to speak in tongues and praise God, but BEFORE they had been baptized in water? Yes or no?
 
Those who are adopted become the seed of Abraham--and of the House of Israel.

I agree. But that doesn't answer my question to you.
Since all have to come through Christ to enjoin those blessings--and Christ came through the Abrahamic lineage--then that lineage covers both Abraham and the House of Israel--through Christ.

Hebrews 2:11-16---King James Version
11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
That is fine, too. But do we LITERALLY become the "seed' of Abraham, i.e., does our DNA get changed so that we become physically descendants of Abe? Yes or no?
 
Is that a fact, Crow?

Galatians 3:26-29---King James Version
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Must this baptism be by the mormon way?

Two priests or Melchizedek Priesthood holders witness each baptism to make sure it is performed properly. The baptism must be repeated if the words are not spoken exactly as given in Doctrine and Covenants 20:73 or if part of the person’s body or clothing is not immersed completely. LDS source

Instructions for Performing a Baptism​

Under the direction of the presiding authority, a priest or Melchizedek Priesthood holder may perform the ordinance of baptism. To do so, he:

  1. Stands in the water with the person to be baptized.
  2. Holds the person’s right wrist with his left hand (for convenience and safety); the person who is being baptized holds the priesthood holder’s left wrist with his or her left hand.
  3. Raises his right arm to the square.
  4. States the person’s full name and says, “Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen” (Doctrine and Covenants 20:73).
  5. Has the person hold his or her nose with the right hand (for convenience); then the priesthood holder places his right hand high on the person’s back and immerses the person completely, including the person’s clothing.
  6. Helps the person come up out of the water.
If you didn't do it correctly...as the LDS says you must do...then you missed out on the Gospel of baptism.
What does this mean? If you are not a Mormon and baptized the correct way....you can't be saved.

Bascially the Mormon doctrine says if you are not a Mormon and their baptism gospel is not part of your salvation...you're lost.


.....Just thought I'd remind you.
 
Thanks, CC. Philip knew nothing of these things when the Ethiopian eunuch asked him to baptize him, when they came to some water, after Philip explained what the Isaiah verses meant and shared the Gospel of Jesus Christ with him.
 
In the adoption--one becomes of the House of Israel--and the seed of Abraham, which was my point to Magdalena:

Galatians 3:28-29---King James Version
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Which is NT theology.

Romans 9
8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Not a Mormon concept
 
Romans 9
8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Not a Mormon concept
Ah! I had forgotten that verse. One can be physically descended from Abraham, but are not children God IF they reject Jesus Christ and God will not regard them as Abe's offspring, since they have no faith.
 
Romans 9
8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Not a Mormon concept

That's a false claim. Romans9:8 is what is taught and practiced in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Perhaps you would like to explain for us how that is not a concept in the LDS church?

And to Bonnie--please take note of this portion of the verse:

Romans 9
8 In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.
 
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