The Adoption

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
Since the Bible clearly tells us how God created man, in Genesis, and Paul tells us we are the children of God by adoption, and John tells us in John 1 that when we believe in Jesus Christ, we have the "right to BECOME the children of God"....we can safely assume this "offspring" in Acts 17 is to be taken figuratively.

Anyone who is adopted--always has a previous F(f)ather. Who was the previous F(f)ather of our spirits--before we are adopted?

Ephesians 4:4-6----King James Version
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
 
Anyone who is adopted--always has a previous F(f)ather. Who was the previous F(f)ather of our spirits--before we are adopted?

Ephesians 4:4-6----King James Version
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Are you implying that before we were conceived in the womb, that we had a spirit?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Are you implying that before we were conceived in the womb, that we had a spirit?

Hi Eternomade:

I'm implying--- before we were physical beings--we were spirits. Those same spirits inhabit our mortal bodies--leave upon death.

But that is not the point of this OP. The adoption happens here--during our mortal existence. Seeing that our spirits are adopted, as well as our physical bodies--who was the previous F(f)ather of our bodies and spirits--prior to the adoption?

That--in light of the fact one cannot adopt--- which is the natural F(f)ather. There is no need to, they are already the natural F(f)athers.

IOW--the LDS believe this is the natural F(f)athers:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

We are adopted to Jesus Christ in Eternal Life.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Are you implying that before we were conceived in the womb, that we had a spirit?
Mormons believe we were spirit children in heaven, before our spirits were put into bodies on earth.

Of course, "offspring" is not always literally meaning one's biological children born to us. It can be figurative. Since the REST of the Scriptures attests to the fact that those of the body of Christ are ADOPTED to God by faith in HIM, then that means we are God's offspring figuratively, since He created us. "Father" can also be figurative, sometimes meaning "originator" or "ancestor" as well as one's male parent. Depends upon the context, of course.


John 1 ESV says this:

9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

WHY, if we were already the literal offspring of God, would we need the right to BECOME the children of God? I am my parents' child...even if they had disowned me, I would still be their child. I would not need the right to BECOME their child, would I, even if they took me back?

Here are the Bible verses about this:

Ephesians 1:4-5 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-

Romans 8:14-17 14For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Romans 8:23 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.

IF we were already the literal offspring of God by some unnamed heavenly mother, then why would we need to be adopted to God? And do note, that we are NOT adopted TO the Son, but to the Father THROUGH the Son, Jesus Christ.

Also, prior to the adoption, we were "by NATURE, children of WRATH." As Paul wrote in Eph. 2.

By the way--Welcome to the boards!
 
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Mormons believe we were spirit children in heaven, before our spirits were put into bodies on earth.

Of course, "offspring" is not always literally meaning one's biological children born to us. It can be figurative. Since the REST of the Scriptures attests to the fact that those of the body of Christ are ADOPTED to God by faith in HIM, then that means we are God's offspring figuratively, since He created us. "Father" can also be figurative, sometimes meaning "originator" or "ancestor" as well as one's male parent. Depends upon the context, of course.


John 1 ESV says this:



WHY, if we were already the literal offspring of God, would we need the right to BECOME the children of God? I am my parents' child...even if they had disowned me, I would still be their child. I would not need the right to BECOME their child, would I?

Here are the Bible verses about this:



IF we were already the literal offspring of God by some unnamed heavenly mother, then why would we need to be adopted to God? And do note, that we are NOT adopted TO the Son, but to the Father THROUGH the Son, Jesus Christ.

By the way--Welcome to the boards!
Thank you. I live in Gilbert, AZ so I am fairly familiar with the LDS. I tend to hang around the Trinity board much more though.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Thank you. I live in Gilbert, AZ so I am fairly familiar with the LDS. I tend to hang around the Trinity board much more though.
Oh, okay. Yeah, Arizona tends to be Mormon country, like Idaho and of course, Utah. I read a book years ago by a now ex-Mormon, who lived with her family in Arizona. I forget offhand what it is called--it might be OUT OF MORMONISM-- but I think the author is Judy Robertson. Have you ever read any books by former Mormons, who left that church for the true Jesus Christ of the Bible? If not, I highly recommend Lynn Wilder's UNVEILING GRACE. It is a great book, interesting, and well-written. I corresponded with her a little bit, some years ago, and also met her at a conference in our church, down in Florida, some years ago, where she and her husband were guest speakers.
 
Oh, okay. Yeah, Arizona tends to be Mormon country, like Idaho and of course, Utah. I read a book years ago by a now ex-Mormon, who lived with her family in Arizona. I forget offhand what it is called--it might be OUT OF MORMONISM-- but I think the author is Judy Robertson. Have you ever read any books by former Mormons, who left that church for the true Jesus Christ of the Bible? If not, I highly recommend Lynn Wilder's UNVEILING GRACE. It is a great book, interesting, and well-written. I corresponded with her a little bit, some years ago, and also met her at a conference in our church, down in Florida, some years ago, where she and her husband were guest speakers.
Judy sounds familiar. I believe maybe her husband(Jim I think?) even did an event at the church I used to attend.

Recently Jeff Durbin at Apologia has some videos that are pretty good.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Judy sounds familiar. I believe maybe her husband(Jim I think?) even did an event at the church I used to attend.

Recently Jeff Durbin at Apologia has some videos that are pretty good.
Yes, his name is Jim. I think I saw a you tube of Jeff once, confronting a Mormon.
 
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brotherofJared

Active member
Not in the sense that God is.
Yes. In the sense that God is.

As demonstrated by db, when we die, our spirits leave our body. We know when god created our bodies. Where do the scriptures describe when God made our spirits? They don't. We know when our spirit enters our body, but there is nothing specific about where that spirit was created. We have, in Christ, an example of one spirit that was born, but we know that that birth was not Christ's beginning. So, apparently, from the scriptures, our bodies have a beginning and our spirits have a beginning, but nothing tells us where the being of man, or God, has a beginning. Therefore, we are all co-eternal with God. God predestinated us according to his foreknowledge. Other Christian religions don't quite not what to make of this. Does that mean that we are created to do what we do? Some thing so and base their religion around this. But this seems to fly in the face of freedom to choose good or evil. Such a theology teaches that it is God's fault that there are murderers and rapists and thieves. He predestinated them to do what they do. This is a false interpretation (the key word is on interpretation).

A more reasonable interpretation is that we have always existed and God knew us and what we'd do in this life. That we lived with him before we were born.
 
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Aaron32

Active member
Eternal means no beginning and end. How can someone be eternal if they do have a beginning?
Not in the sense that God is. God has no beginning and no ending. We have a beginning, but in the Resurrection, we WILL be immortal.
Hmmm...I always believed that which has no end, has no beginning.

Yet, if what you’re saying is true, the Satan, the Angel would have been created when the heavens were created. So that would cause me to ask 1) Do Angels have free will? (That would have to be Free WILL and not free AGENCY because who would tempt them?)
2) How was Jeremiah known before he was formed in the womb? (Jeremiah 1:5)
 

Aaron32

Active member
Mormons believe we were spirit children in heaven, before our spirits were put into bodies on earth.

Of course, "offspring" is not always literally meaning one's biological children born to us. It can be figurative. Since the REST of the Scriptures attests to the fact that those of the body of Christ are ADOPTED to God by faith in HIM, then that means we are God's offspring figuratively, since He created us. "Father" can also be figurative, sometimes meaning "originator" or "ancestor" as well as one's male parent. Depends upon the context, of course.


John 1 ESV says this:



WHY, if we were already the literal offspring of God, would we need the right to BECOME the children of God? I am my parents' child...even if they had disowned me, I would still be their child. I would not need the right to BECOME their child, would I, even if they took me back?

Here are the Bible verses about this:



IF we were already the literal offspring of God by some unnamed heavenly mother, then why would we need to be adopted to God? And do note, that we are NOT adopted TO the Son, but to the Father THROUGH the Son, Jesus Christ.

Also, prior to the adoption, we were "by NATURE, children of WRATH." As Paul wrote in Eph. 2.

By the way--Welcome to the boards!
This is good substance! There will be more to come on this!
 

brotherofJared

Active member
God created man out of the dust of the ground.
God created our bodies from the dust of the ground.
Man had a beginning--God did not.
Our bodies had a beginning. Our being has no beginning, just like God's being has no beginning.
This is just a diversion.
It is not a diversion. It is an answer to a direct question.
Are you implying that before we were conceived in the womb, that we had a spirit?
Clearly, the question has to do with who our parents before our birth would be which directly ties into the OP where db made the observation:
Anyone who is adopted--always has a previous F(f)ather.
Try to keep up.
 
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