The Adoption

dberrie2020

Well-known member
IF we already are by nature children of God in the pre-mortal spirit existence, then why would anyone need the RIGHT TO BECOME God's children--if they already ARE his spirit children?
For two primary reasons:

1) We are spirit children to God the Father--not Jesus Christ. The adoption is to Jesus Christ.

2) We are adopted in the flesh--which Jesus Christ is also not the natural father of. We have earthly parents pertaining to that.

Bonnie--you are aware Jesus Christ claimed to have the same God and Father as all men do, as to the spirit--right?

John 20:17---King James Version
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
And do you not know that "offspring" can have a figurative meaning, even as "father" and "children" can? OR do you think every instance of the word "offspring" in the Bible is meant to be taken literally?
Perhaps you can relate to us what "figurative" meaning you believe "offspring" has here?

Acts 17:29---King James Version
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
For two primary reasons:

1) We are spirit children to God the Father--not Jesus Christ. The adoption is to Jesus Christ.

2) We are adopted in the flesh--which Jesus Christ is also not the natural father of. We have earthly parents pertaining to that.

Bonnie--you are aware Jesus Christ claimed to have the same God and Father as all men do, as to the spirit--right?

John 20:17---King James Version
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Do you even know the difference between what "to" and "through" mean?

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons THROUGH Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.

Does Paul say we are adopted TO Jesus Christ, or THROUGH Jesus Christ?

What else did Paul write?

Galatians 3:26
New American Standard Bible

26 For you are all sons and daughters of God THROUGH faith in Christ Jesus.

Does this verse say we are the sons of Jesus Christ? Again, do you know what "through" means?

One more:

Hebrews 2:11-12

English Standard Version

11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers, 12 saying,
“I will tell of your name to my brothers;
in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.”

Do we call Jesus "Abba, Father!" OR do we call God the Father, "Abba, Father"?

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Do you even know the difference between what "to" and "through" mean?
Could you explain if we are adopted through Christ--then why would that necessarily contradict that we are adopted "into Christ"--or "in Christ", or to Christ, "be Christ's", etc?

Galatians 3:26---New American Standard Bible​

26 For you are all sons and daughters of God THROUGH faith in Christ Jesus.

Does this verse say we are the sons of Jesus Christ?
That depends on whether one believes Jesus is God. For me--it states we are sons and daughters of Jesus Christ. That also makes us sons and Daughters of God the Father. The adoption comes "through Christ", or "into Christ", "in Christ"--"be Christ's", etc.

Galatians 3:26-29---King James Version
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one
in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Could you explain if we are adopted through Christ--then why would that necessarily contradict that we are adopted "into Christ"--or "in Christ", or to Christ, "be Christ's", etc?


That depends on whether one believes Jesus is God. For me--it states we are sons and daughters of Jesus Christ. That also makes us sons and Daughters of God the Father. The adoption comes "through Christ", or "into Christ", "in Christ"--"be Christ's", etc.

Galatians 3:26-29---King James Version
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one
in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Could you please explain why you are not answering my simple question: "do you know the difference between 'to' and 'through'?

Where do these verses say we are adopted TO Jesus Christ?

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one
in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Have you forgotten:

Romans 8:17

King James Version

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

"For ye are all the children of God BY faith in Christ Jesus." NASB has "THROUGH faith in Christ Jesus." Do you not know that the Greek word for "through" is "dia" and it means "by means of"?

Now, care to show us a Bible verse that calls us Jesus' CHILDREN?
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Perhaps you can relate to us what "figurative" meaning you believe "offspring" has here?

From dictionary.com:

noun, plural off·spring, off·springs.​

children or young of a particular parent or progenitor.
a child or animal in relation to its parent or parents.
a descendant.
descendants collectively.
the product, result, or effect of something: the offspring of an inventive mind.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
From dictionary.com:

noun, plural off·spring, off·springs.​

children or young of a particular parent or progenitor.
a child or animal in relation to its parent or parents.
a descendant.
descendants collectively.
the product, result, or effect of something: the offspring of an inventive mind.
And by the adoption, we are the "offspring" of God THROUGH faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Of course our spirits will live on AFTER we are dead. But we are talking about BEFORE we are born.
I know. That's what I said. Are you still not reading my posts and trying to reply to them intelligently?
And being predestined to salvation does NOT mean we pre-existed as spirit children of HF
Well, the alternative to being pre-existed spirit children of God, means that God made us as we are and that we have no choice in our destiny. God made the murderer to be a murderer and the thief to be a thief. We have no choice and in that case, God made me to be a Mormon. I have no choice. This is what God predestinated me to be from the moment I was formed in the womb.

I don't believe that theology. I don't believe that God made all the decisions I make for me. I cannot be held accountable for something someone else is making me do. If you believe that is what God did, then this conversation is over. You're just banging your head against a wall. But since I don't believe that theology, my job is to shine the light on your erroneous beliefs.
God, being omniscient, among other attributes, would know in advance who would be born and when.
I don't see how omniscience has anything to do with it. If he made us the way we are, then it's more like a dictatorship or that He's a puppet master and we are mindless puppets dangling from his strings.
 

The Prophet

Active member
You are off track with that, as my comments were directed to Prophet's comments about our spirits preceding the physical body.

Prophet quoted 1 Cor 15:46 to show the physical was first:

1 Corinthians 15:46
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

My retort was that was 1Cor is a reference to the mortal flesh--and the resurrected body.--both physical bodies, not to the spirit.1 Cor15 is addressing the resurrection--the physical bodies of mortality or the resurrected body--not whether the physical body or spirit came first.

IOW--the natural physical body comes first--then the spiritual, resurrected body.



If it's an adoption--then naturally--the adopted are not offspring of an adoptive parent--that's the reason there has to be an adoption.

Acts 17:29---King James Version
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

As to men--offspring are F(f)athered by the natural parent:

Hebrews 12:9---King James Version
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Those are the natural parents--and their offspring.

An adoption occurs because the adopted is not the offspring of the adopting person.
The Bible is clear we are Children and offspring by adoption

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brotherofJared

Well-known member
Who said angels are "breathed" into bodies and live in mortality?
I did. Just now.
angels being the spirits of men. Aren't you following the argument? Can't you read what I said?
No, that is not what God meant in Ps. 82, although the divine council may very well have been the angelic host--that God "stood" in their midst, judging the unjust judges on earth
I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. "although the divine council may very well have been the angelic hosts"... wait, what? Are you suggesting that God might have told some angels that they might die like men? Didn't you just rejected my statement that angels are breathed into bodies? How do you suppose that these angels might die like men? Wouldn't they have to be men to die like men?
That happened before He created man, when Satan and one third of the angelic host were cast out of heaven.
LOL. No. None of those guys died like men. They are still around and never were men. Do you know any men that died like men that are still around? Don't they go into the grave and stay there? :rolleyes: Can you point out to me where any of the third of the angelic host is buried? Any of them?

No, Bonnie, they didn't die like men. You need to stop making stuff up so it fits your traditions. I would think that judging unjustly isn't the crime that the devil and his host would be guilty of. I'm sure they were doing much much worse things that simply judging unjustly. In fact, we know what they did and what they did wasn't a matter of judgment, it was a matter of open rebellion.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
And how could Ps. 82 have happened BEFORE the world was formed?
Easy. Don't you think that Jesus lived in spirit form before the world was formed? Wasn't there a war in heaven before the world was formed? There appears to have been a lot of beings hanging around before the world was formed.
Where did the widows and orphans come from, that God exhorted the judges to uphold?
They were gods, weren't they? Do you think that they didn't know that there would be widows and orphans? There is nothing in the text that says that they actually did anything to widows and orphans. God exhorted them to uphold them when there were orphans and widows. As you say, they were exhorted to do something. Like an army is exhorted to keep their heads down when under a hail of bullets and mortar fire. That does not mean that when they are being exhorted that there is currently a hail of bullets or mortar fire.
WHERE were the wicked folk that these "gods" favored?
I don't know. It doesn't say. Apparently, as you observed that they were wicked, that they were being partial to each other. That's what bullies do. That's what the mob mentality festers under. So, in effect, the scenario is God walks into the council and he witnesses a group of jerks plotting, who knows, maybe the execution of God, the Son, and he tells them to beware. You know that the people who actually did kill the Son of God were judging the Son unjustly, right? They did favor each other, right? And wasn't the Son of God, fatherless? Was he not poor and needy? Had he not a place where to lay his head? (I don't know where you got the widow from.) Was he not talking to the very people who eventually did kill him? And he exhorted them, in Ps 82, not to do it. He exhorted them to deliver them from the wicked. But they still chose to do it. Obviously, they had neither knowledge nor understanding yet they stomped about in the darkness shaking the foundations of the earth. But the Son still wins. He will rise to judge the earth.

The parallel is uncanny. It was all foreseen and all the players were present in that council before the earth was formed and still God called them gods and sons of the most High [God]. It is both a warning and a pleading, but men have their choice.

There is also a parable that closely resembles this moment, the one at the porch where God reiterated some of His earlier statement. I'm sure that those on the porch were aware of the passage Jesus quoted from. But the parable of the wicked husbandmen, where the owner of the vineyard eventually sent his Son to check on the vineyard and the husbandmen conspired to kill the son because they thought to take the Son's inheritance. It all plays out the same. The sad thing is men always seem to think they know better than God or that they can outwit God.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Ever hear of a figure of speech?
LOL. You're going to wear that one out. It seems to me that if you don't believe what it says, it's a figure of speech and if you do believe it, then it's literal. Isn't that the same as ignoring what doesn't agree with your traditions? How is that taking the scriptures as a whole?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
LOL. You're going to wear that one out. It seems to me that if you don't believe what it says, it's a figure of speech and if you do believe it, then it's literal. Isn't that the same as ignoring what doesn't agree with your traditions? How is that taking the scriptures as a whole?
It depends upon the context. Thst old bugaboo of Mormonism.

I could say the same of YOU. You have declared that God making man out of the dust of the ground, (to which God said we would return at death)--which is also what the BoM says--is not literal, but symbolic/figurative. Without a shred of evidence to support your assertion..

Another example is where the Bible clearly says Moses DIED and God BURIED him. I think you said this was also a figure of speech/symbolic. NOT to be taken literally. Why? Because it violates the false teaching in your church that Moses did NOT die, but was "translated" to heaven. Doesn't kt?

How...convenieit?

Apparently if those in the LDS church must choose between believing what the Bible says and what their church teaches, they MUST choose their church over the Bible. Must maintain that testimony of their church and false prophet founder at all cost--even at the cost of the truth.

I do believe all that the Bible says. But I am also astute enough to realize that context governs the best interpretation, as well as what the entire Biblical witness shows us. But Mormons can only make the Bible SEEM to agree to agree with their heretical doctrines by isolating verses, giving different definitions of some words (such as, to faith means works, died means taken out of the way, and buried means translated to heaven)) than what they actually mean, and by casting doubt on whether or not the Bible is translated correctly, thus giving "wiggle room" for Mormon misinterpretations. Don't like what the Bible says, because it contradicts Mormon teachings? Hey, no problemo! Just say that it was not translated correctly in that verse.

How convenient!

Are there doctrines in Mormonism that are NOWHERE in the Bible, not even hinted at? Hey, no problem! Just declare that they were some of the "plain and precious things" that were taken out of the Bible, in some sort of conspiracy...

How convenient!
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Easy. Don't you think that Jesus lived in spirit form before the world was formed? Wasn't there a war in heaven before the world was formed? There appears to have been a lot of beings hanging around before the world was formed.

But if all of this happened BEFORE the world was formed...where were all of the wicked ones that these gods were favoring and showing partiality to? Asaph asked "How LONG will you judge unjustly and favor the wicked?" Which shows that it wasn't something in the future but had already happened. Asaph was writing this during the reign of David, around 1000 BC. Didn't the world exist then? Weren't there widows and orphans and poor people then? Weren't there human judges then?
They were gods, weren't they? Do you think that they didn't know that there would be widows and orphans? There is nothing in the text that says that they actually did anything to widows and orphans. God exhorted them to uphold them when there were orphans and widows. As you say, they were exhorted to do something. Like an army is exhorted to keep their heads down when under a hail of bullets and mortar fire. That does not mean that when they are being exhorted that there is currently a hail of bullets or mortar fire.

I don't know. It doesn't say. Apparently, as you observed that they were wicked, that they were being partial to each other. That's what bullies do. That's what the mob mentality festers under. So, in effect, the scenario is God walks into the council and he witnesses a group of jerks plotting, who knows, maybe the execution of God, the Son, and he tells them to beware. You know that the people who actually did kill the Son of God were judging the Son unjustly, right? They did favor each other, right? And wasn't the Son of God, fatherless? Was he not poor and needy? Had he not a place where to lay his head? (I don't know where you got the widow from.) Was he not talking to the very people who eventually did kill him? And he exhorted them, in Ps 82, not to do it. He exhorted them to deliver them from the wicked. But they still chose to do it. Obviously, they had neither knowledge nor understanding yet they stomped about in the darkness shaking the foundations of the earth. But the Son still wins. He will rise to judge the earth.

The parallel is uncanny. It was all foreseen and all the players were present in that council before the earth was formed and still God called them gods and sons of the most High [God]. It is both a warning and a pleading, but men have their choice.

There is also a parable that closely resembles this moment, the one at the porch where God reiterated some of His earlier statement. I'm sure that those on the porch were aware of the passage Jesus quoted from. But the parable of the wicked husbandmen, where the owner of the vineyard eventually sent his Son to check on the vineyard and the husbandmen conspired to kill the son because they thought to take the Son's inheritance. It all plays out the same. The sad thing is men always seem to think they know better than God or that they can outwit God.


Easy. Don't you think that Jesus lived in spirit form before the world was formed? Wasn't there a war in heaven before the world was formed? There appears to have been a lot of beings hanging around before the world was formed.
[/QUOTE]

Jesus is the eternal Word of God, Who was God. But that doesn't mean we existed as spirit children of HF and HM, before the earth was formed, the result of some kind of cosmic procreation not specifically named in your church. GOD preexists, but man does not.
They were gods, weren't they? Do you think that they didn't know that there would be widows and orphans? There is nothing in the text that says that they actually did anything to widows and orphans. God exhorted them to uphold them when there were orphans and widows. As you say, they were exhorted to do something. Like an army is exhorted to keep their heads down when under a hail of bullets and mortar fire. That does not mean that when they are being exhorted that there is currently a hail of bullets or mortar fire.

that is YOUR interpretation, not mine. And you have yet to answer my simple question about these gods, that I am aware of: WERE these gods deity BY NATURE? Yes or no?

I don't know. It doesn't say. Apparently, as you observed that they were wicked, that they were being partial to each other. That's what bullies do. That's what the mob mentality festers under. So, in effect, the scenario is God walks into the council and he witnesses a group of jerks plotting, who knows, maybe the execution of God, the Son, and he tells them to beware. You know that the people who actually did kill the Son of God were judging the Son unjustly, right? They did favor each other, right? And wasn't the Son of God, fatherless? Was he not poor and needy? Had he not a place where to lay his head? (I don't know where you got the widow from.) Was he not talking to the very people who eventually did kill him? And he exhorted them, in Ps 82, not to do it. He exhorted them to deliver them from the wicked. But they still chose to do it. Obviously, they had neither knowledge nor understanding yet they stomped about in the darkness shaking the foundations of the earth. But the Son still wins. He will rise to judge the earth.

Whom did these "gods" show partiality TO, IF this all took place before the world was created? IF there were jerks and wicked "gods" in this council, wouldn't that make them sinners? Like demons? Like the devil and all his angels? And if they had no knowledge or understanding...HOW THEN COULD THEY BE GODS? And how could they stomp on the earth and shake it IF
the earth had NOT YET BEEN FORMED? As you claim here it was NOT? "It was all foreseen and all the players were present in that council before the earth was formed and still God called them gods and sons of the most High [God]. It is both a warning and a pleading, but men have their choice."

So, how could these gods stomp on the earth and shake its foundations BEFORE THE EARTH WAS FORMED? What was there for them to STOMP ON AND SHAKE THE FOUNDATIONS OF?

The parallel is uncanny. It was all foreseen and all the players were present in that council before the earth was formed and still God called them gods and sons of the most High [God]. It is both a warning and a pleading, but men have their choice.

In John 10, Jesus was accusing the Pharisees who accused Him of blasphemy that they were unjust judges, since they had not judged Him rightly. They didn't get their BVDs in a bunch when a bunch of human rulers/judges were called "gods", yet when Jesus PROVED He is the Son of God by His mighty works, they wanted to stone Him--thus proving they were just like the unjust judges in Ps. 82--who favored the wicked, made unjust judgments and who were in darkness and knew nothing of God and the coming Messiah and did not recognize Him when He did come.
There is also a parable that closely resembles this moment, the one at the porch where God reiterated some of His earlier statement. I'm sure that those on the porch were aware of the passage Jesus quoted from. But the parable of the wicked husbandmen, where the owner of the vineyard eventually sent his Son to check on the vineyard and the husbandmen conspired to kill the son because they thought to take the Son's inheritance. It all plays out the same. The sad thing is men always seem to think they know better than God or that they can outwit God.
See my last entry above.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
And by the adoption, we are the "offspring" of God THROUGH faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Please do feel free to explain to us which of the pagans Paul addressed--- you feel had already experienced the adoption:

Acts 17:29---King James Version
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I know. That's what I said. Are you still not reading my posts and trying to reply to them intelligently?

I am doing the best I can but sometimes you do not always explain yourself clearly.
Well, the alternative to being pre-existed spirit children of God, means that God made us as we are and that we have no choice in our destiny. God made the murderer to be a murderer and the thief to be a thief. We have no choice and in that case, God made me to be a Mormon. I have no choice. This is what God predestinated me to be from the moment I was formed in the womb.

Who said that God made a murderer a murderer and a thief, a thief? Who ever wrote that on here? God did indeed make us through our first parents, Adam and Eve, but where has anyone on here said that God MAKES the murderer to be a murderer, and a thief to be a thief? In case you have forgotten I am a conservative Lutheran and we do not teach double-ended predestination. But that is for other boards, not this one, and anyway, this rant of yours is just a diversionary tactic.
I did. Just now.
angels being the spirits of men. Aren't you following the argument? Can't you read what I said?

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. "although the divine council may very well have been the angelic hosts"... wait, what? Are you suggesting that God might have told some angels that they might die like men? Didn't you just rejected my statement that angels are breathed into bodies? How do you suppose that these angels might die like men? Wouldn't they have to be men to die like men?

LOL. No. None of those guys died like men. They are still around and never were men. Do you know any men that died like men that are still around? Don't they go into the grave and stay there? :rolleyes: Can you point out to me where any of the third of the angelic host is buried? Any of them?

No, Bonnie, they didn't die like men. You need to stop making stuff up so it fits your traditions. I would think that judging unjustly isn't the crime that the devil and his host would be guilty of. I'm sure they were doing much much worse things that simply judging unjustly. In fact, we know what they did and what they did wasn't a matter of judgment, it was a matter of open rebellion.
Angels are not the spirits of men. That is silly. They are a separate creation from humanity. I just said that the divine assembly God was "standing" in could simply have been His holy angels surrounding Him in heaven. So of course, they did not "die like men" because they are NOT men; they are holy angels, and do not die. Now who isn't reading very carefully?
I don't believe that theology. I don't believe that God made all the decisions I make for me. I cannot be held accountable for something someone else is making me do. If you believe that is what God did, then this conversation is over. You're just banging your head against a wall. But since I don't believe that theology, my job is to shine the light on your erroneous beliefs.

What does not pre-existing as spirit children of HF and HM have to do with predestination? Who said anyone is making you do anything?
I don't see how omniscience has anything to do with it. If he made us the way we are, then it's more like a dictatorship or that He's a puppet master and we are mindless puppets dangling from his strings.
Just because God is omniscient does not mean He is our "puppet master" and we are dangling from His strings. IF that were true, then He would instead FORCE everyone everywhere to believe in His Son, Jesus Christ, for salvation--but not everyone believes in Him, do they
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Asaph asked "How LONG will you judge unjustly and favor the wicked?" Which shows that it wasn't something in the future but had already happened. Asaph was writing this during the reign of David, around 1000 BC. Didn't the world exist then?
Please do show us where God appointed humans over the nations:

Deuteronomy 32:7-9---English Standard Version
7 Remember the days of old;
consider the years of many generations;
ask your father, and he will show you,
your elders, and they will tell you.
8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of th
e sons of God.
9 But the Lord's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.

Ever wondered why the God of the OT (Jesus Christ) only dealt with a particular lineage(Jacob) as the chosen? Israel. Then--He became the Heir of the whole world?

Hebrews 1:1-9---English Standard Version
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God's angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Where did I write that pagans are adopted to God?

Wasn't this your post?

Bonnie said: And by the adoption, we are the "offspring" of God THROUGH faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Again--which one of the pagans Paul was addressing here--had experienced the adoption?

Acts 17:29---King James Version
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
 

The Prophet

Active member
Please do show us where God appointed humans over the nations:

Deuteronomy 32:7-9---English Standard Version
7 Remember the days of old;
consider the years of many generations;
ask your father, and he will show you,
your elders, and they will tell you.
8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of th
e sons of God.
9 But the Lord's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.


Ever wondered why the God of the OT (Jesus Christ) only dealt with a particular lineage(Jacob) as the chosen? Israel. Then--He became the Heir of the whole world?

Hebrews 1:1-9---English Standard Version
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God's angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,

the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Didn't God the Father call Jesus God in verse 8 ?
 
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