The Alpha and Omega- God

Stephen

Active member
thanks for the reply, but we can settle this quickly, is the Person in John 1:3 "Who Made all things", is the same ONE person in Isaiah 44:24 "Who made all things?" yes or no.

The words "who made all things" do not appear in John 1:3. The question has a false premise.


and then we can examine what G243 allos is saying.

PICJAG, 101G.

We did examine it. It showed that Jesus was referring to somebody numerically different than himself.
 

101G

Well-known member
The words "who made all things" do not appear in John 1:3. The question has a false premise.
The context say so, if not then WHO?
We did examine it. It showed that Jesus was referring to somebody numerically different than himself.
yes, as in the ECHAD of the First and the Last, who is the SAME one Person, Diversified in Flesh... thank.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Stephen

Active member
The context say so, if not then WHO?

The context says the word is the medium through which "all things" were made.

yes, as in the ECHAD of the First and the Last, who is the SAME one Person, Diversified in Flesh... thank.

PICJAG, 101G.

The fact that they are numerically different means that Jesus is not referring to himself, but another person entirely. As Jesus says, another testified about him. This is exactly how Jesus would identify that the person testifying about him is another person than himself.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
The one who made all biology and by extension all men would be the father of all that is biological

Yes, he is. A father is a male parent, a parent is someone who looks after their children.

You are playing word games. The scripture does not mention literal son, the scripture identifies us as joint-heirs with Christ... But that is beside the point...You are refuting your own argument, Since the father is God the son cannot be God...

That is why the son has a God, which makes the son, not God. Thanks for refuting your own argument.
We are dealing with God, NOT men. Male parents belong to the world of men.
Jesus Christ is NOT a biological Son of God, though He is The LITERAL Son of God, The ONE and ONLY.
John 1:14; 3:16 affirm that truth.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
The context says the word is the medium through which "all things" were made.



The fact that they are numerically different means that Jesus is not referring to himself, but another person entirely. As Jesus says, another testified about him. This is exactly how Jesus would identify that the person testifying about him is another person than himself.
The Word is The Son BY whom ALL things were made.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
I haven't claimed that yet in this thread. However, the "undetermined point" would be at his baptism when the holy spirit descended.



I am not trying to prove Jesus was adopted. (How on God's green earth did you go there?) I am trying to show you that Christians are born of God. Jesus gave a discourse on this to Nicodemus.



The bible says begotten for both Jesus and the saints. Christians are born twice.




I sure am. He was saved from death, just like we are to be (Heb 5:7).



Why wouldn't he need to be born again?
Because He was NOT a sinner, and ONLY sinners need to be born again.
Jesus is LITERALLY begotten of The Father; Christians are NOT.
You are charged with blasphemous disrespect to The ONE and ONLY Lord.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
If Jesus was not born again how can he be the firstborn from the dead?
Exactly and the Bible very clearly reveals that Jesus was born twice and both times he was born, God declared to him "you are my Son this day have I begotten you".

The first time was at his birth by the Holy Spirit and Mary and as per Hebrews 1:5-6 when he brought the firstborn into the world and then again after Jesus literally died and was born again from the dead and as per Paul in Acts 13:30-34, where God declared the second time "you are my Son this day have I begotten you".


Joseph
 

eternomade

Active member
If Jesus was not born again how can he be the firstborn from the dead?
Revelation 1:5

5 and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

What is the context here?
 

Stephen

Active member
Because He was NOT a sinner, and ONLY sinners need to be born again.

Do you have a scripture reference for that, or you just making things up (again) ?

Jesus is LITERALLY begotten of The Father; Christians are NOT.

1 John 5:1, KJV: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." 1 John 5:1,​

John 3: 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’


You are charged with blasphemous disrespect to The ONE and ONLY Lord.

If you say so.
 

101G

Well-known member
The context says the word is the medium through which "all things" were made.
Who is the medium, NAME PLEASE,, and where is it stated in John 1:3?
The fact that they are numerically different means that Jesus is not referring to himself, but another person entirely. As Jesus says, another testified about him. This is exactly how Jesus would identify that the person testifying about him is another person than himself.
first off there is NO "THEY", ... but "HIM" that is numerically different .and Jesus was referring to himself as the "ORDINAL FIRST, the "LORD". do you understand "ORDINAL NUMBERS? do you...

and as for the, "another testified about him", John 5:32 "There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true."
Another here is G243 Allos, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". do you know what "SORT" means? if not look it up.

so what you said is no rebuttal, and you're reproved.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Last edited:

Stephen

Active member
Who is the medium, NAME PLEASE,, and where is it stated in John 1:3?

The word is the medium, and the pronoun used is "autos" which is gender neutral. (link)

first off there is NO "THEY", ... but "HIM" that is numerically different .and Jesus was referring to himself as the "ORDINAL FIRST, the "LORD". do you understand "ORDINAL NUMBERS? do you...

Something numerically different than something else it is by definition not identical to that something else. That was what Vines was saying by identifying something as numerically different. He was being explicit in explaining that the 'another" identifies that the "another" is another person entirely. (link)

and as for the, "another testified about him", John 5:32 "There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true."
Another here is G243 Allos, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". do you know what "SORT" means? if not look it up.

Yes, I've looked it up. Here it is:

Sort: NOUN 1. a category of things or people having some common feature; a type.

The common feature in the context of Christ's words is "witness". Jesus is one witness, and he says "there is another witness" who is numerically different than Jesus (per Vine's definition of "another"). And by definition, if the other witness is not numerically the same as Jesus, the other witness is not Jesus.

so what you said is no rebuttal, and you're reproved.

PICJAG, 101G.

If you say so.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
We are dealing with God, NOT men. Male parents belong to the world of men.
And God is our Father seeing that he created Adam erom whom we all came.
Jesus Christ is NOT a biological Son of God,
but he is the biological son of God...Jesus is a living organism, isn't he?
though He is The LITERAL Son of God, The ONE and ONLY.
John 1:14; 3:16 affirm that truth.
You are not making any sense...God has a son...his name is Jesus...Jesus gave us the power to become sons of God... Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
So unless you are calling Jesus a liar your argument is refuted...This may seem impossible to you but with God, it is a small thing...
Matt 19
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Because He was NOT a sinner, and ONLY sinners need to be born again.
Nope, men must be born again...You agree that Jesus was 100% human therefore a man... Jesus was born again...
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Jesus is LITERALLY begotten of The Father; Christians are NOT.
You are correct there ...God did not call anyone to be a christian...that is a catholic doctrine.
You are charged with blasphemous disrespect to The ONE and ONLY Lord.
You deny The one and only God has a son whom he made Lord...
Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
 

101G

Well-known member
The context says the word is the medium through which "all things" were made.
well a BIG ERROR on YOUR part, and here's why, LISTEN CAREFULLY, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
First "I" is a single person designation, meaning ONLY "ONE" PERSON, and on top of that, he was "ALONE". do you know what "ALONE" mean?
Alone, having no one else present. well that just eliminated the medium through LIE, and on top of that, he was NOT ONLY "ALONE, but BY "HIMSELF", which eliminate and three person God head. I like the way the NASB 1995 say it, "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone".
ALL ALONE? which makes it perfectly clear, ONE person, and ONE person ... "ONLY". so the medium through theory is just that a LIE, according the BIBLE.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
The words "who made all things" do not appear in John 1:3. The question has a false premise.




We did examine it. It showed that Jesus was referring to somebody numerically different than himself.
ALL things were made by Him is certainly in my Bible as well as all other Bibles.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Nope, men must be born again...You agree that Jesus was 100% human therefore a man... Jesus was born again...
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

You are correct there ...God did not call anyone to be a christian...that is a catholic doctrine.

You deny The one and only God has a son whom he made Lord...
Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
ALL sinful men must be born again, Christ EXCLUDED since He was SINLESS.
Col. 1:18 says NOTHING concerning being "born again".
In ALL things He has the PREEMINENCE????Wow! He must be God.
Your sinful disrespect to The ONE Lord continues.
Who is the HIM..JG? name please, and if you say the Word, then his Name....

PICJAG, 101G.
The Word identified as The Son.
 
Top