The Alpha and Omega- God

johnny guitar

Well-known member
and he died...God cannot die...you are refuting your own argument...

What do you suppose firstborn from the dead means?

No, I have not...if Jesus is a deity then you have more than one deity, Jesus is a deity the father is a deity and the HS is a deity...3 deities...
Yep, He voluntarily laid down His life.
It means He is the FIRST to be resurrected from the dead NEVER to die again.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit are THE(NOT a)DEITY.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
"God cannot die." but,
Psalms 49:7-9
7 No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them—
8 the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough—
9 so that they should live on forever and not see decay.
Psalms 49:7-9 does not change the fact that God cannot die.
What does "firstborn from the dead mean[]?" Taken literally, if there is a "firstborn" there must be others
"born from the dead." But scripture informs us that "firstborn" is a title and responsibilities which can be conferred on whomever the father chooses.
It does not necessarily refer to the one who was born before his siblings or even someone who was born.
What rubbish are you spewing? The scripture I quoted is referring specifically to Jesus. The first to be resurrected from the dead never to die again.
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
The nation Israel was not the first and not even born but chosen.
Deuteronomy 25:6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
The second son is made firstborn when the elder dies.
1 Chronicles 26:10 Also Hosah, of the children of Merari, had sons; Simri the chief, (for though he was not the firstborn, yet his father made him the chief
The second son made firstborn by his father.
Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him [David] my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
David chosen as firstborn, by God, although he was not the eldest of his brothers.
Jeremiah 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
Ephraim called firstborn, by God, although not the oldest son.
You seem confused...the term you are trying to explain is "firstborn from the dead..." not firstborn.
Three deities.
a deity is a God...
There is one God.
Therefore you are claiming four Gods...
The Father is called or referred to as God, but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit.
So in your theology, the father is an individual deity/God
The Son is called or referred to as God, but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit.
Therefore in your theology, the son is an individual deity/God
The Holy Spirit is called or referred to as God, but He is not the Father or the Son..
Again in your theology the HS is an individual deity/God
There is one God.
You have three individual deities/Gods but claim you have one God.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Psalms 49:7-9 does not change the fact that God cannot die.
Did you even read Psalm 49:7-9? If Jesus was a mere man He could not redeem anyone that they should live forever.
Psalms 49:7-9
7 No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them—
8 the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough—
9 so that they should live on forever and not see decay./indent]​


What rubbish are you spewing? The scripture I quoted is referring specifically to Jesus. The first to be resurrected from the dead never to die again.
You seem confused...the term you are trying to explain is "firstborn from the dead..." not firstborn.
Does "firstborn from the dead" have a different meaning that "firstborn" elsewhere in the Bible? Other than Jesus is anyone ever born from the dead? Please explain that.
a deity is a God...
Your point is?
Therefore you are claiming four Gods...
How many times did I say "There is one God?"
So in your theology, the father is an individual deity/God
Therefore in your theology, the son is an individual deity/God
Again in your theology the HS is an individual deity/God
You have three individual deities/Gods but claim you have one God.
No! No! No! And wrong. Evidently in you theology God is only capable of doing something you can fully explain in fallible human terms, rather than being omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
It does not matter the fact is he died. He was mortal.

Yes, I already said that...

The same thing, you have three individual deities but you are claiming one deity...
You said resurrection means born again. It does NOT.
I'm claiming three PERSONS, ONE Deity.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Did you even read Psalm 49:7-9? If Jesus was a mere man He could not redeem anyone that they should live forever.​

Psalms 49:7-9

7 No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them—

8 the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough—

9 so that they should live on forever and not see decay./indent]
What rubbish are you spewing? I never said Jesus was a mere man (whatever that is...) We believe Jesus is the son of God. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was she not?
Does "firstborn from the dead" have a different meaning that "firstborn" elsewhere in the Bible?
Yes, it does...Can you find another that is the firstborn from the dead in the bible apart from Jesus?
Other than Jesus is anyone ever born from the dead? Please explain that.
Yep, Read Romans 1..
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Your point is?
You have three deities therefore you have three Gods...
How many times did I say "There is one God?"
Believers in YHWH have one God. You have three Gods but say there is one God...Here is Paul 1 Cor 8 talking about God and believers...vs 6. Even Paul acknowledges there are many Gods in this world. But he makes it very clear (vs 7) that not all men have the knowledge there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ...
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

No! No! No! And wrong. Evidently in you theology God is only capable of doing something you can fully explain in fallible human terms, rather than being omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.
My theology is written in the scripture...yours is not...There is no mention of a God Jesus... in fact, Jesus has a God ...Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
 

101G

Well-known member
What rubbish are you spewing? I never said Jesus was a mere man (whatever that is...) We believe Jesus is the son of God. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was she not?
you said, "I never said Jesus was a mere man", well there are only three entities, God, Angels, and Men... so the Lord Jesus as the Son of God is neither of these? if you're saying that the Lord Jesus as Son is a different entity, so what make him so?

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Last edited:

OldShepherd

Well-known member
What rubbish are you spewing? I never said Jesus was a mere man (whatever that is...) We believe Jesus is the son of God. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was she not?
No Mary was NOT conceived by the Holy Spirit. Nor was she impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Is Jesus a man or not?
Yes, it does...Can you find another that is the firstborn from the dead in the bible apart from Jesus?
Yep, Read Romans 1..
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Where does Rom 1 or any other scripture say anyone is "born from the dead?"
You have three deities therefore you have three Gods...
In scripture the Father is called or referred to as God, the Son is called or referred to as God, the Holy Spirit is called or referred to as God. There is one God. I posted 36 vss. which call or refer to Jesus as God. Explain that.
Believers in YHWH have one God. You have three Gods but say there is one God...Here is Paul 1 Cor 8 talking about God and believers...vs 6. Even Paul acknowledges there are many Gods in this world. But he makes it very clear (vs 7) that not all men have the knowledge there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ...
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
Irrelevant to this discussion.
My theology is written in the scripture...yours is not...There is no mention of a God Jesus... in fact, Jesus has a God ...Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
I have posted multiple scripture in support of what I post and not nobody, not no how has ever shown from scripture how what I posted is incorrect. The responses all fall into the "You're wrong and I'm right, Am too! Nuh Huh!" category.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
What rubbish are you spewing? I never said Jesus was a mere man (whatever that is...) We believe Jesus is the son of God. Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was she not?

Yes, it does...Can you find another that is the firstborn from the dead in the bible apart from Jesus?

Yep, Read Romans 1..
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

You have three deities therefore you have three Gods...

Believers in YHWH have one God. You have three Gods but say there is one God...Here is Paul 1 Cor 8 talking about God and believers...vs 6. Even Paul acknowledges there are many Gods in this world. But he makes it very clear (vs 7) that not all men have the knowledge there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ...
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.


My theology is written in the scripture...yours is not...There is no mention of a God Jesus... in fact, Jesus has a God ...Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
No. Jesus, NOT Mary, was conceived by GodThe Holy Spirit.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
you said, "I never said Jesus was a mere man", well there are only three entities, God, Angels, and Men... so the Lord Jesus as the Son of God is neither of these? if you're saying that the Lord Jesus as Son is a different entity, so what make him so?

PICJAG, 101G.
It makes him the son of God. The son of God is a man, I never mentioned a mere man... whatever that is. I can show you where the scripture says Jesus is a man.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
No. Jesus, NOT Mary, was conceived by GodThe Holy Spirit.
Conceive in the context means getting pregnant. Did Jesus get pregnant? Plus there is no mention of a God the Holy Ghost in the scripture. God the father does things by his spirit...
Zechariah 4:6
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
No Mary was NOT conceived by the Holy Spirit. Nor was she impregnated by the Holy Spirit. Is Jesus a man or not?
your argument is with the scripture...
Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus is a man Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Where does Rom 1 or any other scripture say anyone is "born from the dead?"
Where does the scripture say "Jesus is God" or "God is a trinity"? Choose your argument wisely...Since you did not die in Jesus death by baptism and were not raised in the newness of life that explains your position.
In scripture the Father is called or referred to as God, the Son is called or referred to as God, the Holy Spirit is called or referred to as God. There is one God. I posted 36 vss. which call or refer to Jesus as God. Explain that.
Nope, not in the scripture in your head...The father is God the father is Jesus' God...explain that...In Revelation Jesus says the father is his God...explain that...in Jn Jesus said he was ascending to his God explain that. When Jesus was on the cross dying he cried out My God My God, explain how your God was dying and cried out to his God...
Irrelevant to this discussion.
It is relevant to the discussion...Paul is saying to us there is but one God, the Father. You are saying something different from Paul.
I have posted multiple scripture in support of what I post and not nobody, not no how has ever shown from scripture how what I posted is incorrect.
Oh, I have seen many times people explaining that you are wrong but you are hard of hearing...I showed you where Paul says we have one God the Father you said, irrelevant. I showed you where Jesus has a God you ignore the scripture.
The responses all fall into the "You're wrong and I'm right, Am too! Nuh Huh!" category.
That is what you are doing, you are saying you are right because you posted out of context verses.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You said resurrection means born again. It does NOT.
In the context of baptism it does...
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
I'm claiming three PERSONS, ONE Deity.
So are the persons not deities?... You are not making sense, if the persons are not deities why are we even having this discussion...You are saying that the father is not a deity the son is not a deity and the HS is not a deity...but you have one deity, I wonder who that is?
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
* * * Where does the scripture say "Jesus is God" or "God is a trinity"? Choose your argument wisely...Since you did not die in Jesus death by baptism and were not raised in the newness of life that explains your position.* * *
This is the rubbish illogical argument that various unscriptural heterodox religious groups concoct. Please show me from any English grammar where it is stated that Jesus can't be God because no scripture uses the exact words "Jesus is God."
I have posted 36 passages which directly call or refer to Jesus as God. Your only answer is the illogical "No verse says 'Jesus is God.'" Both John and Thomas said Jesus was God.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
It makes him the son of God. The son of God is a man, I never mentioned a mere man... whatever that is. I can show you where the scripture says Jesus is a man.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
What is the difference between a man and a "mere" man?????
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
In the context of baptism it does...
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

So are the persons not deities?... You are not making sense, if the persons are not deities why are we even having this discussion...You are saying that the father is not a deity the son is not a deity and the HS is not a deity...but you have one deity, I wonder who that is?
NO they are NOT Deities, they are DEITY.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Conceive in the context means getting pregnant. Did Jesus get pregnant? Plus there is no mention of a God the Holy Ghost in the scripture. God the father does things by his spirit...
Zechariah 4:6
Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
Mary conceived IN her womb BY The Holy Spirit.
NO mention of The Father in Zech. 4:6.
WHO conceived Jesus if NOT God The Holy Spirit???
The Father did NOT.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
This is the rubbish illogical argument that various unscriptural heterodox religious groups concoct.
No, it is not... Your premise is based on what the scripture does not say. So it is unreasonable for you to ask me ...
Where does Rom 1 or any other scripture say anyone is "born from the dead?"

Please show me from any English grammar where it is stated that Jesus can't be God because no scripture uses the exact words "Jesus is God."
The scripture was not originally written in English. But the fact that there is only one God coupled with Jesus saying that he is ascending to his God makes it very clear that Jesus is not God.
I have posted 36 passages which directly call or refer to Jesus as God.
No, you have not, you are assuming that they directly call Jesus God...Jesus is the son of God. That would make more than one God if Jesus was God.
Your only answer is the illogical "No verse says 'Jesus is God.'" Both John and Thomas said Jesus was God.
No, they did not...you are assuming that...John specifically tells us the scriptures were written for us to believe Jesus is the son of God...
John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Unless you believe that John is trying to confuse us Jesus cannot be both God and the son of God. That would make him his own father.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Mary conceived IN her womb BY The Holy Spirit.
Yet he is the son of God the father.
NO mention of The Father in Zech. 4:6.
No mention of a trinity in the scripture...
WHO conceived Jesus if NOT God The Holy Spirit???
No mention of a God the Holy Spirit in the scripture.
The Father did NOT.
So why does Jesus say he is the son of God the father? Are you saying Jesus is a bastard?
 
Top